Hunter x Hunter 2011

[shinta|hikari]

About number 1, didn't they conclude that the King is where the King's guards were? The entire attack on the castle was based on that assumption. Knov experienced the aura of a King's guard, so they knew the King is in the building. They should have nuked him then and there. I'm pretty sure 10 of those rose bombs would have obliterated the entire compound and surrounding area.

About number 2, will these thematic elements you mentioned be shown in the future? Because up until Netero went suicide bomber on the King, everything was all about Nen abilities.

[neflight86]

Bombing the palace might get tricky with all of those people hypnotized right outside of it.

I think that the specifically cheap bomb was fitting given HxH's penchant for delivering hard truths about poor situations as demonstrated in this arc so far, even if we as the audience would believe he (Netero) deserved better.

On that note, I am of the presumption that the Nuke was both the first and last hope Netero had to kill the king, and I expect he knew it, having had his relative aura compared and his declaration that this mission would require the sacrifice of at least someone. The rest of the fight was just either his last selfish act of wanting to fight a strong opponent, positioning the king into optimal blast radius for the bomb, or both.

[shinta|hikari]

Netero wanting to fight the king actually is the best reason for the farce of a plan. They could have easily bombed the king, but Netero wanted to fight him, so he did.

[Kraco]

All things considered, I'd rather think Netero wanted to try everything else before resorting to a nuke. We are talking about nuclear weapons here. It's not like they would be the first choice to deal with anything. The palace was also within a walking distance from the city, if memory serves, so using nukes would have been a bit questionable there, which led to the plan of taking the king elsewhere. Otherwise it actually was a pretty sound plan: He was there alone facing the king to make sure he was the only sacrifice.

I also don't think this was anything so strange in the bigger picture. This arc was about humans vs ants, and inarguably nukes are the pinnacle of human achievements weapons wise. Nukes are also something a single person would have a hard time building, all the way from extracting the needed elements and constructing the facilities and machines to designing and finally building the thing itself. The ants had poured everything into a single entity, the king, thinking it would have everything to conquer the world, but humans never did that, yet proved victorious here.

[shinta|hikari]

It would have been a sound plan if they didn't wait for ages before attacking, which led to the King's guard and the King being born. It also led to countless deaths (which they knowingly accepted) while they were waiting, which would have been prevented if they just nuked the ants from the get go.

The reason why I really don't like this bomb thing is because everyone acted so desperately as if this option did not exist. All the choices and actions look so cheap and idiotic now that we know they can just nuke the ants, and cheaply too.

[Kraco]

That's just you. In RL ever since WW2 nobody has wanted to use nukes (aside from some terrorists who fortunately haven't got them). It doesn't need to be any different in HxH. They really didn't want to use the nuke, and only used it when Netero died. If there's anything strange about this all, it's the fact nobody else but a small team of Hunters gave a shit about the ants - yet the Hunters cared enough to use a nuke. That disparity is kind of weird.

[neflight86]

Before the king was born the whole of the ant problem was confined inside of an openly WMD and aircraft hostile nation (NGL). If anything I figure the hunters should be glad that the King left there into an area that had already apparently gathered enough payload to kill him, even if they had to do some finiggling to get him within range.

I would also argue that the strongest and fastest ants we're dealing with here stood a fair chance of intercepting traditional delivery methods due to Pitou's En that stretched so far and only recessed for a few hours before the attack. It also appears that the Hunter organization only dispatched a bare minimum of resources due to the internal strife mentioned earlier by Morel.

I believe it could be argued that this situation was handled poorly rather than stupidly due to the event's minimal exposure and some party's desire to keep it under wraps (man in the suit) rather than rally all available hunters and resources against this foe.

[Carnage]

It would have been a sound plan if they didn't wait for ages before attacking, which led to the King's guard and the King being born. It also led to countless deaths (which they knowingly accepted) while they were waiting, which would have been prevented if they just nuked the ants from the get go.

If they had led a human attack on the ant fortress they might have been wiped out. Neferpitou had already been born before the colony was discovered and Netero admitted that she was stronger than he was pre-training. You think it would have been smart to send in a team of Hunters in?

To address your earlier post, there's no 100% guarantee that the king is with the royal guard. 1 bomb or 10, if the king isn't there, the element of surprise is lost. As shown, there were variables not part of their equation. They never understood why the king had harmed himself (playing shogi). Also, the author is japanese, so I think you're missing a bit of context here as to how serious the use of nuclear weapons is viewed.

If there's anything strange about this all, it's the fact nobody else but a small team of Hunters gave a shit about the ants - yet the Hunters cared enough to use a nuke. That disparity is kind of weird.

If you send in Hunters and they are killed, they are reborn into even more monstrously strong ants. So actually it does make sense not risking peons or even teams of skilled nen experts.

[shinta|hikari]

I like Kraco's explanation more. They simply didn't want to use the nukes (for whatever reason in their world), so they did it as a last resort. That certainly makes more sense than saying they never had a chance to or that the risk was too great. Their entire plan is a great risk, for crying out loud. Everything they knew was speculation after all.

[DarthEnderX]

I thought the nuke was a masterful scale reminder: Human Nen is great and all; Ant Nen can be even better... but chemistry and physics trumps all.

Except we don't even know if the King is even dead yet.

[neflight86]

I think the point remains that greater damage has been done to him from the bomb than the zero attack, which already caused consternation from what I could tell.

[DarthEnderX]

That's just you. In RL ever since WW2 nobody has wanted to use nukes (aside from some terrorists who fortunately haven't got them). It doesn't need to be any different in HxH.

I agree with this. I think Sci-fi movies where the military always tries nuking the monsters/aliens 10 minutes into the movie have skewed people's perception of them.

IRL, nobody wants to use nukes because of how badly they mess everything up.

I think the point remains that greater damage has been done to him from the bomb than the zero attack, which already caused consternation from what I could tell.

I don't think even that is a fair conclusion to draw yet. We've only seen the blast. He could just pull a smoke shield on the whole thing.

[David75]

The discussion about the nuke is nice and all and nuking the castle -even if near the city- would have been possible because some nen users could always do something about remaining radiation cloud and ruins. But maybe they didn't have time to precisely pinpoint the King and have enough nukes to do the trick. Also, Netero specifically chose a weapon testing area. I guess we lack some elements that had him make those choices.

What baffles me here is that the King has now made twice the same mistake.
Looking back, it was clear Netero was ready to die killing the King from the get go.
It seems Meruem isn't yet able to understand that logic: be ready to die to kill an enemy, being able to give your own life so that you protect your species.
It happened before when Komugi was ready to die rather than lose a limb, Meruem understood he was the one not ready to lose it all and detached is own arm as a personal lesson... Personal lesson he didn't put to good use when facing Netero who was exactly using the same strategy!

My guess is that since the King is the pinnacle of his kind, he can't sacrifice himself for the greater good of his species. So no matter how strong he is, at some point he might lose, his species following his downfall.
On the contrary, mankind is made of lots of individualities that might be limited in the maximum power they can get, but some of them really can sacrifice themselves if needed.
Somehow, it feels like the ant king lost a behavior that social insects -particularly ants- have, only to have it come back at him from humans that are not really thought to have it.

[Kraco]

What baffles me here is that the King has now made twice the same mistake.
Looking back, it was clear Netero was ready to die killing the King from the get go.
It seems Meruem isn't yet able to understand that logic: be ready to die to kill an enemy, being able to give your own life so that you protect your species.

Nah, you are missing a critical detail here: Meruem had absolutely no way of knowing Netero had a nuke prehidden in that place and it would detonate the moment his heart stopped. So, Netero being ready to die wouldn't really mean anything to the King, aside from making the King commend Netero's prowess and resolve so far. Like I said before, the matter is complicated by the fact the ants had betted everything on making individuals as strong as possible, so it didn't cross the King's mind on a fundamental level somebody as tough as Netero was nothing but a trigger, in the end.

Even if the King survived this, somehow, it shouldn't matter: the level of radiation so close to the blast would be astronomical. He would be such a mass of cancer that I don't think even a nen healer could find too many untouched cells in his body. And he certainly shouldn't be able to breed anymore. It would be kind of stupid to use a nuke in a story and forget all about this, I believe.

[David75]

So you do not think this is the same fundamental mistake he already experienced with Komugi? The one that had him detach his own arm so that he doesn't forget... yet it seems it happened again with Netero?
Of course he didn't know about a nuke. But the tool isn't important here, it's the will to die killing you opponent so that other benefit from that outcome.
But maybe I make a wrong link here.

[Buffalobiian]

Komugi's fight and this were different.

The king learned from Komugi that she's playing each chess game as if death waited for her if she lost. I don't think that mentality had much to do with this battle that just finished.

[Kraco]

Yeah. The King might have, after Komugi's fight, learnt such resolution (although I don't know why an ant would need to learn self-sacrifice for the sake of the colony since ants are experts at it), but it has nothing to do with a dead man's switch. Of course if he had lowered his arrogance some and studied the human society he could have learned about indirect methods and guile, but like I've said before, these ants, evolutionally, decided to make as uber strong individuals as possible, instead of team work. People tend to judge others based on their own values, so it'd have been quite a step for the king to come to think of a possibility that somebody as strong as Netero wasn't necessarily the actual weapon but the place itself.

[MFauli]

I don't think even that is a fair conclusion to draw yet. We've only seen the blast. He could just pull a smoke shield on the whole thing.

Just wait for it, when the King puts off his severly damaged outer Cell-shell and looks like perfect Frieza now.

Disclaimer: I dont read the manga, if it turns out to be true, it was pure coincidence.

[Splash!]

Somehow, it feels like the ant king lost a behavior that social insects -particularly ants- have, only to have it come back at him from humans that are not really thought to have it.

Not really. In the end, it isn't really about whether ants are willing to sacrifice themselves or not. Clearly the royal guard have shown on multiple occasions that they are ready to die for the sake of king. The problem here is that the propagation of their species depends on the reproduction of the king/queen. This doesn't make them particularly resilient as a species when it comes to survival. It doesn't really matter if the king was willing to sacrifice himself. Even if he did, his role was so fundamental that his species would be screwed regardless. That is why it was necessary for the royal guard to protect the king at all costs.

In contrast, humans are very different. Important individuals can come along and contribute much to the species, but even then, they are quite replaceable. It's not so much about being ready to make sacrifices, which I am sure both species would be willing to do if it actually helped.

EDIT: Like Kraco said, the ants set themselves up for failure from the get go. I think someone mentioned this already, but humanity already had the ants in checkmate.

[DarthEnderX]

Even if the King survived this, somehow, it shouldn't matter: the level of radiation so close to the blast would be astronomical. He would be such a mass of cancer that I don't think even a nen healer could find too many untouched cells in his body.

Why would you assume that?

He's an insect, some of which are more or less unaffected by radiation. Granted, he's an ant, not a cockroach, but still.