Hunter x Hunter 2011

[Kraco]

Morel seems smart enough, but he takes so much time. That's what makes him appear rather average.

I can't avoid the feeling all the nen users with really fancy and complicated techniques are ultimately average, at least fighting wise. Sure, they might dominate under certain, specific circumstances, but such a requirement is a big weakness in itself. A simple, straightforward skill can be used in any situation exactly the same way, without preparation, without plans. It's easy to keep training stronger and to know thoroughly. Of course for a long time it can be used against them as well, if the opponent knows the simply skill, but afterwards such a nen user becomes quite unstoppable. At least until they meet a haxor like Kurapika.

I wish somebody would give the gamer girl a pack of tissues, to blow her nose.

[DarthEnderX]

I know. Snotty characters just make me cringe.

[shinta|hikari]

A snotty blind little girl saves the world.

[poopdeville]

I can't avoid the feeling all the nen users with really fancy and complicated techniques are ultimately average, at least fighting wise. Sure, they might dominate under certain, specific circumstances, but such a requirement is a big weakness in itself. A simple, straightforward skill can be used in any situation exactly the same way, without preparation, without plans. It's easy to keep training stronger and to know thoroughly. Of course for a long time it can be used against them as well, if the opponent knows the simply skill, but afterwards such a nen user becomes quite unstoppable. At least until they meet a haxor like Kurapika.

Are you talking about Cheetu or Morel (or both)? Morel is a pretty badass emission user who can put out 200+ puppets. His hands are kind of tied this fight, because of Cheetu's dome (and the general plan)

[Kraco]

More about Cheetu but maybe about Morel as well. Cheetu had an incredible speed thing going on just fine, but now he has some bizarre game added to it. Apparently the game also has strict rules, so a wise man can ignore all of Cheetu's powers if he can simply find a way to use those rules against him. I reckon that's exactly how Morel intends to beat him.

Like I said before, I was only talking about straightforward fighting, that is, duels, more or less. So, Morel's 200+ Puppets are out of it. Unless you include warfare in fighting. I suppose he could beat masses of ordinary men with those puppets, but they would be little more than distraction against competent opponents.

But I most certaily am including Kite.

[shinta|hikari]

I think Hunters are made to be specialists. There will always be someone better suited for specific situations. While there may be ones who have more adaptable powers or hax ones like Kurapika, they cannot expect to beat everyone in every situation. There will always be a hunter that can beat them (maybe even easily) in certain circumstances.

Being able to beat more types of opponents with 70% chance of success is not necessarily better than beating just a few types of opponents with 99% success rate. What this means is that power levels are very very dynamic and complicated (maybe even pointless) in HxH. It isn't like DBZ where there is a very visible ladder of power.

There is of course still the matter of fundamentals, which is what Gon and Killua have been improving on in the past few arcs. Those are much easily comparable, but pretty much useless because in the end special powers and their usage will decide everything.

[Kraco]

Being able to beat more types of opponents with 70% chance of success is not necessarily better than beating just a few types of opponents with 99% success rate.

Gon and Killua are going down the 70% path, and so would anybody interested in adventures who isn't planning to bind themselves to some organization or agenda, where they could be relatively sure they will only fight the kind of fights they are specifically suited for. Let's not also forget that the 70% versatile people probably have a much higher chance of escaping from the type they can't beat than the very specilized people.

[David75]

Morel really chose the best option.
Chettu is all about speed and reflexes. He does and probably wants everything fast. And his special power is all about showing his speed and having his opponent killed while trying to catch him.
But the downside to his power is that its duration is up to 8 very very long hours to a superfast guy like him.
I bet waiting that much will have him go crazy, and Morel can remain on defensive mode without losing much energy during that time. Should he try to catch Cheetu, he'd deplete his forces quickly and might become vulnerable. And since he does not have enough power to exit that closed space or create an attack strong enough against his oponent, having a long nap is the better choice really.

[poopdeville]

The worst part about Cheetu is that he's not shrewd at all. He has huge amounts of aura, but instead of using it for offensive purposes (overwhelming the enemy with speed and power), he put himself on the defensive. In his natural habitat, he would be a hunter. And now he's the prey.

[MFauli]

I don´t want Cheetuh to die. That´s the most important thing first.

I kinda fail to see what Cheetu´s power is supposed to achieve. Morel comes free, if he wins a game of tag, aka if he manages to touch Cheetuh. So Cheetuh cannot attack Morel during these 8 hours. Attack hit = touching. The only thing that makes sense is assuming that any opponent will auto-die after those 8 hours have passed. Which would be an absurdly strong power.

Snotty girl sucks. Not because of her snotty nose, but because it creates such an obvious loop hole to create weakness within this invincible appearing king.

Morel is weak and I won´t give him credit for creating 200 cannon fodder-clones. That´s probably about as effective as Vegeta´s "dadadadadada!"-spam attacks he did multiple times over the course of Dragon Ball U :/ It never hurt the enemy. In the past I said how it´s dumb to put Knuckle and his partner up against someone of the royal guard, but now I´m inclined to believe that it´s at least no worse than putting Morel up against such a monster.

Series needs more Gon and Killua :>

[Buffalobiian]

Morel is weak and I won´t give him credit for creating 200 cannon fodder-clones.

To clarify, I think he only made 50 now to keep them stronger. Think of them as Sasori's puppets.

[shinta|hikari]

Does that mean if he only made 1 it would be absurdly strong (for a puppet)?

[Buffalobiian]

Does that mean if he only made 1 it would be absurdly strong (for a puppet)?

If it scales like that, then yes. The key comes down to what gets diluted. I think he mentioned "control" and responsiveness of the puppets. Power output may not be a factor, but given that they're made of aura it probably is.

If the rise in ability isn't linear, then 1 puppet might not be the best choice either.

If Morel can control a puppet well with one hemisphere of his brain for example, then the optimal number might actually be 2. (Like the running 2x single threaded applications on a dual core computer getting better results than 1x single threaded application.. assuming you don't run into cache bottlenecks).

[MFauli]

1 or 200 puppets ... it´d still be weaker than any of the other character, wouldn´t it. Or are we assuming that a puppet would be stronger, faster than Morel himself?

[Buffalobiian]

1 or 200 puppets ... it´d still be weaker than any of the other character, wouldn´t it. Or are we assuming that a puppet would be stronger, faster than Morel himself?

It could be. For one, it may be able to perform more abilities than Morel himself could. Being smoke, it could possibly survive attacks that go right through it providing you don't hit the core.

[DarthEnderX]

Does that mean if he only made 1 it would be absurdly strong (for a puppet)?

That's pretty much confirmed by the fact that, if he had zero puppets, and kept all the energy himself, he says he'd easily be able to just blast his way out of Cheetu's pocket dimension.

[MFauli]

That's pretty much confirmed by the fact that, if he had zero puppets, and kept all the energy himself, he says he'd easily be able to just blast his way out of Cheetu's pocket dimension.

which was a statement i hated, to be honest. blast his way out ... HOW? Made me think of the bullshit dragonball pulled, where Boo shouted so loudly to escape god´s other-dimensional training grounds. Though it´s dragonball, so Im fine with it. I expect more from HXH.
If it´s another dimension, then the wall is no real wall, but some energy-based construct. You cant blast your way through it. And even if you could, it wouldn´t lead back to your original dimension, it would lead you to wherever, really. Unless we´re lead to believe that there exist exactly TWO dimensions in HXH lol

[Kraco]

No, if it was possible to break it, like Morel mused, then breaking it with force would logically collapse the entire technique and return them where the spell originally took them from. After all, it's an artificial space, so if it ceases to exist, it... well, ceases to exist, so there's nothing beyond it, no wherever.

I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible to break, though. Morel was able to touch the wall, so it's solid. If it's solid, it can be broken with superior force. If it couldn't, it meant one could make an animated combat doll out of nen and it would be unbreakable. The end of the story for the ant king and anybody else - since it can't be broken if it's made of nen! See the failure in your logic? A room is no different.

[MFauli]

the room isnt just made of nen. it exists "somewhere else", since both Cheetuh and Morel ceased existing in the real world. They vanished from there. So it´s not just nen, they really are in some other dimension. the walls being solid or not doesnt matter, imagine you were hovering inmidst space, nothingness surround you. What would you break? Even if you "broke" your surroundings, where would it lead you to? That is what I mean.

You´re assuming that Cheetuh and Morel are still somewhere in the real world, so that when those walls are broken, the prison boundaries are kaput and they both return back to normality. Like they were shrunken before or something.

From what Ive seen, you cannot safely assume so. Rather, Cheetuh and Morel are in a whole other time space continuum now.The walls of his personal dimension cannot be broken because there´s nothing beyond them. So either they´re indestructable or infinite. I wont say that is a fact, since it´s very much possible that the author has it intended exactly like you assume. But it doesn´t make much sense to me.

The most interesting piece of information we´re missing is what is happning once 8 hours have passed, anyway.

[Buffalobiian]

They could well be indestructible I think. You can touch and flick APR, but you can't kill it by physical force.