Hunter x Hunter 2011

[MFauli]

Sorry, Kraco, I think you´re unfair and harsh on Kite.

He lost an arm due to protecting Gon and Killua. And that´s where his fight against Pitou started. Most of the Spiders would be significantly weaker without both arms intact. Hell, imagine C....whatshisname, the leader without both arms. He wouldnt be able to use his strongest power.
Fact is, Kite was at a severe disadvantage against Pitou.
Secondly, I think you´re underestimating Pitou (as a consequence of your unwillingness to accept the Chimera ants´ incredible powers) and overestimating the Spiders and Netero and company.

It´s best to accept that the chimera Ants just are THAT fucking strong. If that makes any sense, well, let´s hope the anime clears up on that. Even if it doesn´t, it´s pretty simple to understand: A standard chimera ant is made of 2 animals being eaten and processed by the queen (using bs-numbers here). One of the higher ranks like the first intelligent, winged chimera ant is made of 100 living beings. Then say the royal guard is made of 1000 people. And the king is mde of 10000 people (add a zero to each of those numbers, if necessary). What I´m trying to say is: These high ranking chimera ants are a simple culmination of power. There is nothing clever about it. 1+1 = 2. 2+1 = 3. 100 x 1 = 100. It´s the most simple of mathematics. A single, normal human being might be nothing, but concentrate the power of 1000 normal human beings and they might have a shot against someone like Netero.

Two complaints being left:
1.) Pitou being a "noob": I don´t think it´s that difficult to accept that all Chimera Ants are natural born fighters. Most animals are born with certain abilities. Especially insects.
2.) Chimera ants using nen, and Pitou being able to use it without having met nen-users. No idea. It´s either my own theory of Chimera ants being natural nen users, proven by the Phagogenesis ability, or there´s something else.

Either way: Kite didn´t give me the impression of being weak. Pitou gave me the impression of being a monster, in the sense the Uborgin never was.

[DarthEnderX]

Below the Phantom Troupe members, and Killua vastly overestimated him.

I don't believe that.

Killua has faced the Phantom Troupe before, and he specifically stated that Neferpitou's aura was the worst he'd ever felt.

[Kraco]

I don't believe that.

Killua has faced the Phantom Troupe before, and he specifically stated that Neferpitou's aura was the worst he'd ever felt.

Aura, aura... That's all I hear. Having a bigger gun doesn't automatically make you a winner of a fight. Kite made a tragic amateur mistake before the fight had even really begun: He didn't focus on the enemy but thought he had the luxury to worry about others (despite the fact he had told Gon & Killua that he won't be looking after them but rather thought they would be useful for the mission). If that cost him his life, like it seems right now, then he was definitely a worse fighter than the Phantom Troupe members. It doesn't matter how fancy a tank you have if you drive with your head out for any sniper to put a bullet through. As a nen user in general he might have been more skilled and gifted (with the exception of the leader, I reckon), though little good that did to him.

[MFauli]

I´ll just assume you´re intentionally trolling now, Kraco. So Kite was an amateur because he didn´t let his friends die? Okay. :|

[antiravage]

According to Killua, not even Netero can take on Pitou. I know it's an estimate, but that should tell you something. Inexperienced or not, unless one of the spiders is as strong as Netero, they've got nothing on the newborn ant.

Killua thinks Kite is a top-hunter
Killua thinks and knows his brother is strong
Killua is scared shitless of Hisoka
Killua knows that the reinforcements that just arrived are strong

Killua estimates all of the people above are inferior to Neferpitou.
The author is trying to tell you something. And if you didn't get the message, sooner or later, as you watch more episodes, reality will sink in.

[Buffalobiian]

They really highlighted the fact that Kite had extraordinary powers to be able to detect enemies in any direction at a distance of 45 meters.
Yet Neferpitou found him at a distance that was like 500 meters or more (maybe 1000?) and just jumped from that place directly to Kite. She's a monster regarding nen powers. That ep to me just exposed those facts.

I thought about that too, but Kite also detected Neferpitou after Nef climbed outside of the building. Was Nef using En, or did Nef have some sort of special power that lets him detect enemies the way he did (Pokkle, for example). He did that before he learned about the different applications of Nen.

To counter the "newbie" argument, it's been stated that some humans are actually using Nen without being aware of it. That alone tells you can apply it without even knowing you're using it. The fortune-telling girl is a prime example of someone who used Nen effectively (and also very specifically) without knowing about it.

edit-after-reaching-this-page: Aura isn't determining factor, but it is an indicator. The tank assessment by Kraco (where the driver drives with their head out) assumes the tank is stupid. Now if Kite saw Pitou's aura and assumed that Pitou was too stupid to make good use of it, now that would be underestimating her.

[DarthEnderX]

Aura, aura... That's all I hear.

In the absence of any other reliable method, how do you want us to judge these things?

So the Spiders are stronger than Pitou because...what then? Your feels?

According to Killua, not even Netero can take on Pitou.

I think it's highly unlikely that Netero was even releasing his Nen when Killua was talking to him.

[shinta|hikari]

If Nef is walking around with her blades unsheathed, I think it is safe to say that the three sent to kill the ants are keeping theirs well hidden. Killua's assessment at that time is probably inaccurate.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't get the whole sinister thing though. Why not just talk about the size of the aura - what does "evilness" have to do with anything? That bit of assessment actually had me scratching my head.

I get bloodlust, but you don't judge someone's combat ability by it. It's just a measure of how badly someone wants to kill you.

[MFauli]

"Sinister" in terms of absolutness. When you´re fighting an opponent, because both your goal is becoming a hunter, there is nothing sinister about it. It´s a competition. An opponent´s aura may be overwhelming here, too, but that´s from a pure power angle.

The sinister version of this comes into existence when you realize an opponent is here just to ... "erase" you. End you. Kill you. The difference to mere bloodlust, as I see it, is the power difference. And equal fighter can give in to bloodlust, but might not be strong enough to use that bloodlust for his own victory. Maybe see Hisoka during the island exam as an example. While being overwhelming in real battle, Gon got a chance to catch his number plate when Hisoka got all bloodlusting. I cannot imagine the same with Pitou.

Sinister doesnt really objectively mean "evil", that´s just from Killua´s point of view. So, sinister aura really doesn´t have anything to do with bloodlust. It´s the combination of overwhelming power with the intent to target you, in that case Killua and Gon and Kite.

[Buffalobiian]

Sinister doesnt really objectively mean "evil", that´s just from Killua´s point of view.

It's interesting that Killua interpreted it that way. When I watched the episode, I misread the kanji on screen as aku (惡, evil), but it was actually uramu (怨, resentment). If anything, this confuses the issue even more. Pitou was only after someone to test its strength against, while all the other ants killed out of either duty or fun. The more evolved ones even considered themselves equal to or superior to humans, so there's no hate there either.

[Kraco]

Killua was scared shitless. I won't overly much blame Netero & Co for taking his words with a grain of salt. The world of nen is full of monsters, was even before these ants, and if you let them scare you, you have already lost a lot, like the arrogant dude said. It's a different thing letting fear help to better judge your options, that is, to be careful, but it's another thing if you start to view someone as impossible to defeat by anyone. If you don't believe you can defeat the opponent, your efficiency is sure to drop drastically.

I´ll just assume you´re intentionally trolling now, Kraco. So Kite was an amateur because he didn´t let his friends die? Okay. :|

Exactly. Though we have no reason to assume they'd have died, especially both of them. Like I've been saying since a couple of pages ago, Kite had been steadily underestimating the ants due to arrogance. That ended up compromising his own mission. Yes, the mission he deemed so important yet sacrificied to, possibly, save Gon & Killua. How is that not amateurish? He didn't go all out against the opponent, his intel was lacking yet that didn't make him more careful but careless instead, he didn't concentrate fully on the main objective, he got distracted, he got himself killed(?). An amateur if I have ever seen one.

So the Spiders are stronger than Pitou because...what then? Your feels?
I think it's highly unlikely that Netero was even releasing his Nen when Killua was talking to him.

I don't recall saying such a thing. I have only said Kite was a worse fighter than Spiders. Kite got defeated rather easily, it looks like, by Neferpitou, so there's plenty of gap between those two for all manner of power levels.

In the absence of any other reliable method, how do you want us to judge these things?

By results, perhaps? Sure, Neferpitou is strong, but I wouldn't put too much stock in the assessment of one kid scared witless. If Neferpitou ends up wiping its chitin ass with Netero & Gorillas, then sure, Killua happened to be right and that's it.

[Buffalobiian]

By results, perhaps? Sure, Neferpitou is strong, but I wouldn't put too much stock in the assessment of one kid scared witless. If Neferpitou ends up wiping its chitin ass with Netero & Gorillas, then sure, Killua happened to be right and that's it.

That's our main problem. Pitou defeated Kite, so you think Kite isn't that strong (because you think Pitou isn't that strong), and you'll only update that view when Pitou beats the the trio that just came (who you agree are strong).

Instead of seeing Kite's defeat as him being weak, we're saying Pitou's ability is through the roof. Rather than saying Pitou isn't strong because he's a newbie and comparing Kite against him, we should use Kite as the control, and have Pitou (our unknown variable) be compared to him instead. Kite is more or less a Nen master. Seeing as he knows Ging, I'd say he's seen monsters.. and Pitou is a monster.

[Kraco]

That's our main problem. Pitou defeated Kite, so you think Kite isn't that strong (because you think Pitou isn't that strong), and you'll only update that view when Pitou beats the the trio that just came (who you agree are strong).

Instead of seeing Kite's defeat as him being weak, we're saying Pitou's ability is through the roof. Rather than saying Pitou isn't strong because he's a newbie and comparing Kite against him, we should use Kite as the control, and have Pitou (our unknown variable) be compared to him instead. Kite is more or less a Nen master. Seeing as he knows Ging, I'd say he's seen monsters.. and Pitou is a monster.

Perhaps I haven't explained my stand unambiguously enough, but I mean to separate raw strength and combat strength from each other. I have no doubt Kite had plenty of raw strength (though obviously Pitou had even more), but for Kite that translated poorly to combat strength. I'd assume Pitou can do very little but fight. Combat strength is a complex thing and raw strength (aura output) isn't nearly everything that matters in my opinion, with DE proposing the opposite. Killua, for example, being an uber assassin, could probably have taken out plenty of weak nen users even before he discovered nen himself. Now that he has nen, those assassin skills aren't reduced obsolete at all, they are enhanced.

Kite made so many sad mistakes during this arc that I can hardly consider him a powerful fighter. Well, I admit I'm more than likely wrong throwing randomly in Phantom Troupe since that group had members who are far better at being thieves than fighters, but that doesn't exclude all of them. They are villains so most likely they wouldn't get distracted during fights like the good guys always do (generating no end of textbook scenes of the opponent accusing the hero of getting worried about their friends, not their own fight). I'm happy Pitou went all out and didn't waste time lecturing. Kite deserved it.

[Harima Kenji]

The 'magic wand' that Kite got through the 'slots machine' and NOT saying it was a crappy roll makes me believe he's still alive.
He mentioned that Pitou was a monster, so I wouldn't be surprised if he needed to hide and wait for reinforcements. I really doubt Ging would have trained him to act like an amateur in this kind of situation.
He was sweating bullets when he felt the aura, so I'd say he knew he was outclassed or at least in for one hell of a fight.
In the world of Nen you just never know.
My prediction, even though I suck at them:
Looking at the intro I'd say thinking Kite is dead, Gon will go berserk agains Pitou and fuck her up.
On the other hand, that kind of plot device is very un-HxH like...

Somewhere I don't want Gon and Killua to play an important role in this arc.. if they were they'd be on the level of Netro and the 2 dudes he picked. Going from using 'tricks' to fight the bomber and being on equal footing with Netero just doesn't sit right with me, being shounen or not.
Just let this arc for them be nothing more then see what it means to be really strong.

[MFauli]

I find it really silly to assume Kite is still alive. If Kite is alive, then HXH has jumped the shark and is now just as bad as Naruto when it comes do "deaths".

No.

The whole episode was crafted in a way to make us, the audience, feel the power of Pitou and the hopelessness that follows that power. I thought that was made super clear when we had Gon´s happy go lucky-reaction, telling Killua that Kite was alive for sure ... and then BAMM we see Pitou playing around with Kite´s severed head. Despair.
Maybe Kraco was watching a different anime, but the HXH-anime I´ve been watching ever since the Chimera-arc began put a huuuuge focus and presenting despair. Humans being hunted and killed in gruesome ways, children getting eaten, likeable old characters getting killed and eaten. Why would any of this lead you to believe that now the story takes a 180°-turn and follows shounen-clichees where goods guys can´t die? See, if Pitou had Gon´s or Killua´s head in her lap, then sure, I´d say "okay, someone created a replica to escape Pitou". But that´s not the case.
This whole arc is supposed to make us, the audience, feel bad. And I just don´t see that changing now.

I don´t know about what happens, since I didn´t read the manga (that´s just for clarification), but I wouldn´t be surprised if even Netero and his guys would have trouble fighting the royal guard. Of course, that ´d open up the question: Who then remains to put an end to the Chimera danger? Assuming that the story doesn´t develop into a reality where Chimera ants rule the world, lol.

[Buffalobiian]

To be honest, I'd play with Kite's head on my lap too if I ever got one.

[Kraco]

He mentioned that Pitou was a monster, so I wouldn't be surprised if he needed to hide and wait for reinforcements. I really doubt Ging would have trained him to act like an amateur in this kind of situation.
He was sweating bullets when he felt the aura, so I'd say he knew he was outclassed or at least in for one hell of a fight.
In the world of Nen you just never know.
My prediction, even though I suck at them:
Looking at the intro I'd say thinking Kite is dead, Gon will go berserk agains Pitou and fuck her up.
On the other hand, that kind of plot device is very un-HxH like...

The reasons why I'm not fully convinced he's dead are: He abandoned the mission to preserve life; he's trained by Ging, like you said, so despite everything I've said I don't want him to be a fool who got killed so easily; and also because it feels like he didn't yet fulfill any meaningful role, although can be a problem caused by this new show, not the story itself (in other words I didn't feel a thing when his head was on Pitou's lap, other than hating Pitou for being so illogically strong, but Kite's death, assuming he died, didn't make me sad in the slightest). And it's true the magical girl staff he got didn't look like a weapon.

Somewhere I don't want Gon and Killua to play an important role in this arc.. if they were they'd be on the level of Netro and the 2 dudes he picked. Going from using 'tricks' to fight the bomber and being on equal footing with Netero just doesn't sit right with me, being shounen or not.
Just let this arc for them be nothing more then see what it means to be really strong.

I wouldn't mind if Gon & Killua defeated the likes of Rammot.

[Harima Kenji]

After his powerup, Rammot would be a good opponent for them. Just let Gon and Killua handle the squad leaders etc. and leave the rest to the real pros.

[DarthEnderX]

I wouldn't mind if Gon & Killua defeated the likes of Rammot.

I expect them to AT LEAST be able to defeat the Lion guy, who will probably be stronger than Rammot once he gets his Nen awakened, since he's a Squad Leader and Rammot is just an Officer.

I fully expect Gon to fight Colt at some point as well.