Fate/Zero

[fireheart]

I don't know about that since so far Gilgamesh doesn't really seem to care about the Grail beyond that all treasures belong to him and judging it's worth. Lancer doesn't seem to want it for himself just to hand it over to his master since when Rider gave his proposition he didn't say he would obtain it rather his master, yes you could say it means the same as him wanting it for himself but his words doesn't indicate that he wants it. Caster and Berserker are crazy though they might want it kinda hard to say at this point and Assassin doesn't seem to care about the Grail either otherwise they wouldn't agree to what Kirei is doing.
We also have Assassin from the 5th war that didn't care about the Grail only about facing worthy opponents. Archer didn't really need the Grail either so you could say he doesn't care about it in the first place since it seems he never intended to win. Lancer gave up his chance to obtain it, if he really wanted it he wouldn't just throw it away and no idea when it comes to Rider and Berserker. So from what I've seen it seems a lot of them don't really care for the Grail.

You could be right about them wanting the Grail but how do the masters know which hero actually wants the Grail, since they go through all the trouble of finding relics etc to summon them it would also require them knowing they have a need for the Grail and I don't know if stories from the past is enough to judge if someone wants the Grail. If it was the Grail that picked the heroes I'd understand but not when it's the masters that pick.

It seems kinda weird to say they only exist in the Grail war at the very least Archer from the 5th war existed beyond that and after his death as well judging by the movie so if he's an heroic spirit like the rest there shouldn't be any reason why the other heroes can't do the same. And then there's the deal with Gilgamesh.

[Ryllharu]

It helps when you pay attention to the series details. It's not necessarily the Grail itself (certainly is for Saber though), but the wish the Grail will grant the Servant if they win it. That's the incentive for Servants to participate at all (source: FSN).

- The Grail itself has been corrupted from the 3rd War onward (source: FSN). That's why evil Servants (both Casters), monsters (5th War Rider), and even weirder "heroes" (5th War Archer) are summoned by the Grail.

- 4th War caster is an occultist. He absolutely would want the Grail and all that obtaining it means. Though he might want Saber more now that he's apparently got her identity confused with someone else.
- 4th War Berserker would want it. (Not spoiling identity for those who haven't figured it out.)
- 5th War Assassin was summoned by Caster. That alone breaks the rules (gee, I wonder how she could/would do that... ), and makes his motivations out of line with the normal functions of the Wars. (source: FSN)
- 5th War Archer is a huge another aberration due to the Grail's corruption, but we know he wants to be involved and to get the Grail as part of achieving his goal (source: UBW movie).
- A lot of them not caring about the Grail (5th War Rider, 5th War Caster), is once again, part of the grail being corrupted (source: FSN/UBW movie).
- Gilgamesh is Gilgamesh. He wants to possess everything, just like you said.
- Can't speak about the 4th War Assassin without bringing stuff up from the game.

- Care to elaborate on your Lancer statement? I'm not sure where you're going with that one.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm in agreement with the fact that Rider thought Pegasus was untouchable due to how holy it is. The fact that it's a creature from the Age of Gods.

How are these production values sustainable for a TV broadcast? Not even Bakemonogatari could compare to this and even the the TV broadcast cut corners at every single change it got.

It's sustainable because they anticipated this and pumped a whole lot of cash into it. They must be investing a LOT more into this than your average TV series, and hope to recuperate the cost with sales and other side accessories (merchandise etc).

This is all gambling on the established fanbase, and I sure as hell hope this succeeds so another such project will follow suit.

[shinta|hikari]

According to Type-Moon wiki, Excalibur is one of the fastest, and probably the 2nd most powerful noble phantasm attack in terms of sheer power. I'm sure this refers to the speed of the projectile itself, not the start up and execution time. It also cannot be fired in succession, so it isn't firing rate either.

Thing is, Excalibur has such an absurd range that once fired, it will probably hit. It is supposed to destroy fortresses, leaving nothing in its wake, in one attack after all.

[Alhuin]

So much awesome, so little time. Berserker was a nice change of pace... he actually had some skill and amazing speed compared to the brute force approach of 5th war Berserker. I can't quite figure out why he decided to attack Saber once Gilgamesh left, as opposed to Lancer. But whatever... he managed to piss Gilgamesh off quite a bit, which is just fine. Rider is a servant I really like, but also really hate. I agree with pretty much everything Ryll said about him, but yet I still think he'll prove to be a badass fighter, even if he doesn't get serious. He sorta reminds me of Kamina from GL... kinda....

I also thought Caster was looking at Iris at first, until I saw the reflection in his eyes (which is where I thought the episode would end, but then it actually showed her in the crystal ball... >_>).

Two command spells by episode 5. Tohsaka's use of the spell was pretty justified, considering the situation Gilgamesh was in, but I can't understand why Lancer's master would use his. It didn't seem like he was thinking clearly though... maybe frustrated with Rider's words?

[shinta|hikari]

5th war berserker was absurdly fast too.

Rider isn't an idiot. I'm pretty sure his seemingly impulsive actions had some thought put into them. He did manage to get Pendragon's identity and Gilgamesh to appear after all.

Rider's master wanted to get rid of the Saber class, considered the strongest class, when they got the chance. It was mainly Saber's pride and carelessness that cost her the arm. If she fought lancer in full power, lancer would be dead.

[Buffalobiian]

Rider isn't an idiot. I'm pretty sure his seemingly impulsive actions had some thought put into them. He did manage to get Pendragon's identity and Gilgamesh to appear after all.

Lancer also spouted out his true name when he was talking to his Master.

Effectively, Rider's actions turned this from an assassination war to a tournament of sorts. It's not unwelcome since this promotes character interaction from an entertainment point of view.

As for Rider's Noble Phantasm, he's Alexander the Great.. I would think his best attack is none other than having a huge army at his disposal.

[shinta|hikari]

As long as Kiritsugu and Kotomine are alive, and we all know they will be until the end, it will always be an assassination game.

Rider managed to lessen that aspect, not just for victory or advantage, but also because he prefers it that way. A lot of servants in this war seem to move for some other reason than just getting the grail.

[Kraco]

It seems kinda weird to say they only exist in the Grail war at the very least Archer from the 5th war existed beyond that and after his death as well judging by the movie so if he's an heroic spirit like the rest there shouldn't be any reason why the other heroes can't do the same. And then there's the deal with Gilgamesh.

Yeah, these heroic spirits supposedly exist beyond time and fight for the world when called, but the one and only time we have actually witnessed them exist and do anything, atfer their mortal lives, is this Grail war. Or as a high price perversion between wars like Gilgamesh.

[fireheart]

It helps when you pay attention to the series details. It's not necessarily the Grail itself (certainly is for Saber though), but the wish the Grail will grant the Servant if they win it. That's the incentive for Servants to participate at all (source: FSN).

You really do assume to much about others sometimes as I remember the wish the only difference is I didn't separate them in my post because the way I see it, want the Grail = want the wish (even if it doesn't have to that way). Anyway if you remember Sabers reason for wanting it was to place a wish that she didn't pull the sword out of the stone hence she want the wish not the Grail, so I wouldn't agree if you said she wanted the Grail because it's the Grail.

But the thing is I don't see most servants as actually having a wish unless they're deeply dissatisfied with their life like Archer or filled with regret like Saber while it's hard to judge it doesn't seem like the ones I mentioned have any interest in the wish or the Grail. As I said if the servant have a wish they want to fulfill it makes the summoning even more complicated, how do they find out if the person they want to summon has one? More so since they have to hunt down relics or something else in order to summon them. There's really no way of knowing if they have one which is another reason I'm more inclined to believe most don't care about it other than a few. Though to be honest I have a vague memory of them saying that it's because they have a need for the Grail that they'll put up with being servants, I still think a lot of them show little to no interest in it.

- 5th War Assassin was summoned by Caster. That alone breaks the rules (gee, I wonder how she could/would do that... ), and makes his motivations out of line with the normal functions of the Wars. (source: FSN)
- 5th War Archer is a huge another aberration due to the Grail's corruption, but we know he wants to be involved and to get the Grail as part of achieving his goal (source: UBW movie).

- Care to elaborate on your Lancer statement? I'm not sure where you're going with that one.

Can't really say if Caster summoning Assassin is against the rules as she said she's a mage so why can't she? Besides if the Grail doesn't object then it's not against the rules, because seriously who else is going to decide the rules if not the Grail?

Don't remember them ever saying it was because of the Grail's corruption that Rin was able to summon him and really just getting summoned was enough to fulfill his wish which makes his interest in the Grail zero other than it's ability to summon him into that time. Besides wasn't it just that the Grail transcends time and space and that's why he could be summoned? He is an heroic spirit after all and not some kind of weird hero.

Which Lancer do you want me to elaborate on?

[Lucifus]

Episode 6

[KS]_Fate_Zero_-_06_[360p].mkv

[NicoNico]_Fate_Zero_-_06.mp4

[SJSUBS]_Fate_Zero_-_06_[360p].mkv

I'd personally wait a few hours for a higher quality release though. =P

[Marik]

[UTW] Fate Zero - 06 - 720p: Torrent | DDL1 | DDL2

[Ryllharu]

That was a stunningly boring episode.

Not much in the way of surprises either. We already kind of knew that Kiritsugu would go to any length to take out a target, and that's what he did. We already knew Archer and Kirei had plans to double-cross everyone else. It was pretty obvious who Caster was mistaking Saber for in the last episode, though now he's confirmed his identity.

By the way, what happened to a Servant keeping their identity secret? Saber tells anyone who tells her their name, Rider tells everyone, Lancer does the same as Saber, Gilgamesh tells everyone how great he is and that he's the King of Kings, so he's assuming everyone knows who he is (which they don't, obviously). Caster blurts it out. Assassin...doesn't have much of an identity to begin with.

So it's really just Berserker who's still keeping the secret. Where's the strategy of keeping a Servant's skills secret?


The only interesting thing at all was that Irisviel can drive, and rather well at that.

[RyougaZell]

Pretty much what Ryll said. After the awesome scene of Irisviel driving, the rest of the episode was really dull. Specially the scene with Kirei and Gilgamesh. I just wanted it to end and continue with something important and then... end of episode. At least it seems things will be awesome next with all the servants against Caster.

If everybody pretty much knows who Saber is about now... she should stop hiding Excalibur. Oh well.

Saber in a suit is hot.

[Buffalobiian]

Hiding her sword still makes it hard to judge its length and shape.

The episode wasn't stunning like the previous ones, but it was still entertaining for me. With that in mind, I can't call it "boring".

[Kraco]

Not much in the way of surprises either. We already kind of knew that Kiritsugu would go to any length to take out a target, and that's what he did. We already knew Archer and Kirei had plans to double-cross everyone else.

...the rest of the episode was really dull. Specially the scene with Kirei and Gilgamesh. I just wanted it to end and continue with something important and then... end of episode.

Sounds more like the classical case of being betrayed by your own expectations rather than the show itself. Besides, in my opinion it's different to "kind of know" something and actually see it happen. We had seen others talk shit about Kiritsugu, but so far we had seen him do nothing but hesitate. Without events like this, at the end of the show he wouldn't have been much of a man, only rumours and nothing else. Besides, what's important is that Archibald obviously wasn't expecting this, regardless of his fate.

It's actually exactly the same situation with the Kirei and Gilgamesh discussion. I admit it was quite boring as such and fortunately it wasn't any longer than this at this point, at least, but without it we would have had a plot hole awaiting sooner or later. It's not like Kirei and Gilgamesh would just suddenly out of the blue decide to betray everybody and establish their unholy alliance without knowing anything about each other. It's much better if there's some foundation for what is going to happen.

All in all this episode wasn't conclusive in much of anything (I won't believe Lancer/Archibald is out of the picture until I see the body, haha), but it was of importance in any case. I don't know who could ever follow the Hollywood textbook telling every ep must keep the audience hanging on the edge of their seat.

[animus]

The beginning driving sequence oddly reminded me of Initial D.

[David75]

The beginning driving sequence oddly reminded me of Initial D.

Same here, awesome

I liked the ep, changed from all out flashy battles back to strategy and hints at future events. I guess finishing FSN VN not too long ago really helps.
I liked most of it, except Caster's part I feel is totally useless and nonsensical right now. Or is it he's strong enough as a magician to control Arturia into thinking she's Joan of Arc? Impossible. As much as I'd love to have Joan join the battle, I can't have her replace Arturia.

Some info from Gilles de Retz from Wikipedia if some of you are interrested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais

[shinta|hikari]

It was an episode that reminded me how much more awesome Fate/Zero is over FSN. They actually took an episode to flesh out the details in the novel (I have not read it, but it seems that way, based on all the light novels I have read) which will eventually make the show more meaningful.

I actually loved the scene with Gilgamesh and Kiritsugu. It told volumes about Gil's character. He no longer seems like the shallow arrogant king that he was portrayed as before. He has indeed tasted all the pleasures in the world, and also possesses the pride AND wisdom that comes with it.

Saber not being able to shoot Excalibur due to her injury does indeed hurt Emiya's chances of victory. I think he was being too lenient when he got all the other residents out. If he was seriously trying to kill that master, he would have blasted the building with everyone in it. That would have made him hateful to Saber though, and that will be to his disadvantage in the end.

I think the name revealing thing is more of an issue to the masters, since they are not honorable for the most part. The servants are heroes known for their honor and pride, and when honor demands you reveal your name, they oblige.

The scene with the dual masters and the mole was hilarious. Those are the subtle character details that make this show amazing.

[Kraco]

I think he was being too lenient when he got all the other residents out. If he was seriously trying to kill that master, he would have blasted the building with everyone in it. That would have made him hateful to Saber though, and that will be to his disadvantage in the end.

Maybe you know something more than I, but isn't Kiritsugu the man who wanted to be a hero but couldn't, and who thus was happy his adopted son, Shirou, decided to do that for both of them? Kiritsugu wanted to be a hero but in a more realistic manner, that is, knowing he can't save everybody. However, it doesn't mean he would blow up a whole hotel full of people to get one man if he had a choice. With an airplane you wouldn't have a choice: It's either all or none, but with a hotel you do. Moreover, Archibald immediately saw it wasn't a mere accidental fire and apparently decided to stick to his room even more so, making the classic arrogant wizard mistake of thinking his bastion is impenetrable. I bet Kiritsugu, the mage killer, counted on that very fact.