Fate/Zero

[David75]

Yup, good balance of powers and wits in this war.
Rider clearly is awesome. I was a little troubled at first when he said no other servant came to the show, when he was like everyone else just watching and waiting from a distance.
But then he has his grandiose entrance right in the middle of the battlefield.
I almost had tears of joy.

Regarding lancer, the second spear trap was obvious from the moment he dropped it. A bit of a letdown.

I was also a little astonished at how Assassin was so easy to spot when he did not feel Kiritsugu and his teammate.
But since we know Kiritsugu is highly skilled.
It could also be that modern weapons are somewhat immune to some magic. Traditional opposition between magic/science.
Or it just could be that magicians do not care/know about infrared detectors, thus do not conceal that... or do not even have spells for that. Last idea could be those weapons are also magic infused, so have a combined advantage of science and magic.

However all of that works for Kiritsugu, I wonder how his teammate can also benefit from all of this, unless Kiritsugu is so strong he has enough power to perfectly conceal her too.

Regarding Saber, she is too perfectly the same as she'll be in the next war. Acting quick without really anticipating a trick/trap and taking high damage quite early into a fight/war.

[shinta|hikari]

I think you guys are underestimating Saber. It is an insult to think that losing movement of her left hand's thumb is a disadvantage. She said so herself. She has not even used her Noble Phantasm yet. She is smart and strong enough to know that she should be able to defeat this Lancer without exposing all of her secrets to the audience.

[Buffalobiian]

I think you guys are underestimating Saber. It is an insult to think that losing movement of her left hand's thumb is a disadvantage. She said so herself. She has not even used her Noble Phantasm yet. She is smart and strong enough to know that she should be able to defeat this Lancer without exposing all of her secrets to the audience.

An opposable thumb is essential for grabbing and manipulating items with significant strength and dexterity. Saber said so herself that it was bad for him to cut her tendon. You can't expect her to voice her concerns to the enemy like that.

She's strong, but she's taken too much damage before working out her opponent's abilities and identity. Lancer was the one who truly got away with only a scratch. The question is how much hidden potential each of them still have. Saber still has Excalibur (and Avalon, but you know about that one), but does Lancer have some hidden move also? Or that it?

As for Kiritsugu's scope, on re-watch it seems he actually spotted Assassin with night vision.

I can understand his decision to stay hidden. While all the other masters may have gathered information on him and know he's on Saber's team, they don't know his exact location at any one time, or motives. Sniping Lancer's master was his only offensive motive. As he stated himself, he didn't have the means for dispatching another servant once his location is exposed.

Kind of like sniping the enemy commander when another opposition's platoon is camped next door. Suicide.

[shinta|hikari]

If Lancer gets hit by Excalibur, he will probably die, much like most other Servants to ever exist. The challenge in this fight is how Saber can win without using it. Heck, she hasn't even removed invisible air yet. She was never in any real danger in this battle. She has that cheap luck skill that enabled her to survive the heart stab in the next war after all.

[David75]

That's one of her traits, she seem to take physical damage easily/too lightly. Of course most of us know more than what we have here. It only had me realize she's very similar to her future master in that regard.

[Ryllharu]

She could easily win with Excalibur, but that would reveal who she is to everyone. Lancer and Lancer's master now know who she is, but right now, no one else does. Lancer was the only one close enough to recognize Caliburn through Saber's Invisible Air. But we should expect that more than just Rider and Assassin were watching.

Knowing a Servant's identity changes the entire battle. Saber would not have even gotten hurt if she had known who Lancer was from the start.

[shinta|hikari]

That was Excalibur, not Caliburn. I agree with everything else.

[fireheart]

Maybe I'm wrong about this but has Lancer really used his noble phantasm yet? Thought they had to scream out their name in order to activate them so it seemed more that the two abilities of his lances are passive rather than active. The only question then is why they didn't work before but considering they started showing off their abilities after the bandage was taken off it's probably safe to assume they were being sealed, most likely because they are passive and he can't turn them off which in turn would mean it'd be easier for them to figure out his identity.

As for assassin no one really noticed him with the help of magic etc and Kiritsugu made a point of monitoring both that crane and Saber for a reason so if assassin shows up on that crane it'd only be a matter of time before they spotted him. Besides concealing your presence doesn't equal invisible.

Saber still has Excalibur (and Avalon, but you know about that one)

I thought she didn't have Avalon since she didn't have it in the fifth war, if I remember things right Kiritsugu is the one that has it not Saber.

An opposable thumb is essential for grabbing and manipulating items with significant strength and dexterity. Saber said so herself that it was bad for him to cut her tendon.

I'm mostly wondering if it'll heal at all since they said the spear was cursed and the wounds won't heal, if it won't then it's a really big handicap. But yeah since she mostly uses both her hands when fighting the loss of her thumb is quite big. Nor 100% on this but from when I tried kendo the left hand was more important than my right as I only used the right to aim while the power came from the left.

If Lancer gets hit by Excalibur, he will probably die

I think most servants would die if they got hit by the full force of any servants noble phantasm unless we're talking about Caster from the fifth war and see above I'm not entirely convinced Lancers used any of his yet.

[shinta|hikari]

I bet when Lancer dies, the curse disappears as well. I think Saber fought the King of Heroes with both hands, so yeah.

[Kraco]

Yeah, I'm not underestimating anybody. I merely said that for the sake of the fights it's good there were other servants who could put up a fight against her. And clearly this episode showed Lancer was able to do that. Saying Saber could take him out any time with Excalibur is meaningless, especially knowing her personality that always makes her postpone using it. Should Saber face an opponent that immediately required her to use her offensive noble phantasm, it's safe to say the situation would be dire indeed.

In the end it's not like either of these two would have yet given their utmost to defeat the opponent.

[fireheart]

By the way if Lancers red spear cancels mana would Excalibur even reach him?

[shinta|hikari]

If only the tip cancels mana, then yes. Actually, unless his spear creates an absolute barrier large enough to protect his entire body (which is obviously not the case since his strike did not remove ALL of Saber's armour), he will get hit, and get extinguished. Excalibur is an anti-fortress Noble Phantasm after all.

[Kraco]

I believe Excalibur would overpower the spear's antimagic abilities anyway. It would simply annihilate first, Lancer shortly after. It's the goddam Excalibur, after all!

[Ryllharu]

It's the goddam Excalibur, after all!

How does that compare to the Excalibolg? It has the power of both death and life. "Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!"
(couldn't resist)

Maybe I'm wrong about this but has Lancer really used his noble phantasm yet? Thought they had to scream out their name in order to activate them so it seemed more that the two abilities of his lances are passive rather than active. The only question then is why they didn't work before but considering they started showing off their abilities after the bandage was taken off it's probably safe to assume they were being sealed, most likely because they are passive and he can't turn them off which in turn would mean it'd be easier for them to figure out his identity.

Not all noble phantasms require screaming the name out when using it. A lot of the heroes like to do that for their most powerful one, but don't forget that many heroes have more than one (5th War Rider has three, Gilgamesh has two or infinite depending on how you're counting), and a few are passive (Hercules and his Twelve Labors). 5th War Assassin (Kojirou) doesn't even have a true one. Technically, Saber's Invisible Air is one of her noble phantasms, and she just uses that one all the time.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought she didn't have Avalon since she didn't have it in the fifth war, if I remember things right Kiritsugu is the one that has it not Saber.

Yes. That's what I meant by "you know about that one".

I'm mostly wondering if it'll heal at all since they said the spear was cursed and the wounds won't heal, if it won't then it's a really big handicap. But yeah since she mostly uses both her hands when fighting the loss of her thumb is quite big. Nor 100% on this but from when I tried kendo the left hand was more important than my right as I only used the right to aim while the power came from the left.

Not only that, but depending on how powerful the anti-healing curse it, you can simply die from blood loss in the worst case.

She has that cheap luck skill that enabled her to survive the heart stab in the next war after all.

Was it luck? I can't remember if it was that, or her uber reaction time "that borders on precognition" which meant she dodged before the Reverse Causality locked on.

[fireheart]

Not all noble phantasms require screaming the name out when using it. A lot of the heroes like to do that for their most powerful one, but don't forget that many heroes have more than one (5th War Rider has three, Gilgamesh has two or infinite depending on how you're counting), and a few are passive (Hercules and his Twelve Labors). 5th War Assassin (Kojirou) doesn't even have a true one. Technically, Saber's Invisible Air is one of her noble phantasms, and she just uses that one all the time.

Well I understand Hercules not needing to yell out his considering he didn't have any of his trade mark weapons and didn't they say that Kojirou could have been an fictional character so him having an attack that's not based on the name of his weapon is understandable. But yeah you could be right that Lancers spears only have passive skills and no active skills like Saber.

[Ryllharu]

Well I understand Hercules not needing to yell out his considering he didn't have any of his trade mark weapons and didn't they say that Kojirou could have been an fictional character so him having an attack that's not based on the name of his weapon is understandable. But yeah you could be right that Lancers spears only have passive skills and no active skills like Saber.

Not all Noble Phantasms are necessarily weapons, I'm not sure why you are tying the two.

Twelve Labors isn't a weapon. Blood Fort Andromeda (the one that 5th War Rider used on the school to gain more magical energy) isn't one either. Neither is Bellerophon (what 5th War Rider uses to summon and power up her riding beast). Invisible Air modifies a weapon, but it can be used on any object. Unlimited Blade Works isn't even a weapon, it is a Reality Marble.

As for Kojirou, Tsubame Gaeshi is a skill that is equivalent to a Noble Phantasm, but it is not one. He could use it with any sword-shaped object, like a stick for example. It doesn't even use prana, just him being able to move, preferably on flat ground.

[fireheart]

Well that wasn't what I was saying, I'm just saying that if Hercules had some of his weapons they'd probably would have been his noble phantasm and that it's understandable he doesn't have to activate it if it's a passive one. Again I understand that he doesn't need to yell it out since he didn't have any of his weapons, now if he did have them he'd probably have to yell their names out as they'd would most likely have been active skills. And again Assassin as an potential fictional character having a skill instead of a weapon to define him is equally understandable since it's what he was known for. Nowhere did I really say that it has to be a weapon so I'm not sure where you get the idea that I've tied noble phantasm to weapons.

If it makes it easier to understand then it would be that Lancer hasn't used any active noble phantasm and only used what seems to be passive abilities so he might still have an ace up his sleeve unless he only have passive ones which could be possible.

[Archangel]

Hahaha! Oh lord, i love Rider so much. While everyone is trying their best to hide their identities he just jumps in from nowhere and shouts his own for everyone to hear. BADASS!

[masamuneehs]

i'mma watch this show.

but they better not have made this just for the fans. i expect a coherent, well-told, well-animated story here. not just a bunch of fan service, and references only visual novel afficionados will get. i can't remember how most of F/SN went down anyway.