Hebephilia

[Killa-Eyez]

I think your going off here and addressing something completely different.

This was exactly my goal. Buff did the same so I decided to return the favor.

Their point is that if everyone understands/apply society's ethics we'd still believe all those things since we wouldn't challenge them, black people would probably still be slaves and women inferior to men, it was after all part of society's ethics long ago but it got changed that doesn't mean people who disagree with society's ethics are mentally ill. Also going by your argument you yourself have a mental illness since you don't base all your morals on society's ethics only some and by default probably means everyone has a mental illness and we're all screwed up in the head. Also funny enough if we didn't challenge society's ethics we'd probably still be having sex with minors.

My point exactly. Pedophilia is already a mental disorder so why wait for an official public medical definition for hebe- and ephebophilia? Let's challenge society's ethics and massively decide they are mental disorders.
About my argument; the definition of pedophilia's mental illness stems from society's ethics and morals. Therefore the example of my vision of the individual failing to understand the rationale and/or apply these specific ethics and morals (assuming the individual was raised with them) is to be diagnosed with a mental illness. I'm sorry if it came off wrong.

Biologically it makes zero sense to try to breed with a partner not physiologically ready to produce offspring. Thus, it's exceedingly easy to label it, scientifically so, a mental disorder. However, once the partner is biologically ready to reproduce, it becomes a more muddy subject dependent on ethics. It's only due to ethics that the legal marriage age climbed up to 18. I could see hebephilia labeled a disorder these days, but with ephebophilia it's never going to happen. Just the differing ages of consent between countries (or even states) alone would make it laughable.

True, but it still doesn't remove the fact that the label was based on morals and ethics, subjects we all can change overtime. Even ephebophilia can be labeled a mental disorder if there are sufficient people sharing that same vision.

..my reply:

- You said you believe hebephilia to be the same case as "homophiles" (homosexuals?) in that their brain structure is different. You have not backed this up with a source. As such, coming to the conclusion that it's a mental condition in such a manner is only valid for your personal definition of a mental condition and not necessarily applicable for others who "believe" differently. If you had facts to support this, that would be another manner.

That's what I'm basing it on, my morals and ethics, as pedophilia is based on the morals and ethics of society.
To reply to the subject of homophiles having different brain structure, read on to my reply to UChessmaster.

-Firstly, you just said that Hebephilia being a disorder is an ongoing debate, which contradicts your statement before that "It is a mental disorder."

Again, in my book it is.

-Next, you stated that the definitions of mental disorders are probably decided by ethics and morals. But, you stated earlier: "It's a mental condition. Whether it's accepted by society or not is a different story.".

Just to be clear: Only hebe- and ephebophilia will probably be decided "mental disorders" based on ethics and morals, as pedophilia already is. I take this manner of defining and use it myself to label the rest likewise, based on my ethics and morals. Whether it’s officially stated as a mental disorder is something else.

Putting the two pieces together, you have contradicted yourself by saying that the definitions of a medical disorder are influenced and decided by ethics and morals, but then stated that Hebephilia is a mental condition whether or not it's accepted by society.

Not a but these mental disorders (pedo-, hebe- and ehpebophilia).
And yes, in my opinion (which is not based on research or facts) you have a mental disorder if you have any of the three philia's, simply because I think it's unnatural for an adult to fuck minors. There's a reason why we're adults and they're minors. You protect children from adult situations, especially this one, for their benefit.

The only way you have not contradicted yourself is if you also believe that ethics and morals are not dependant upon society.

Sometimes, yes. Not necessarily. Personal ethics and morals are based on your own sense of right and wrong. Whether society agrees with me or not, I will always label it a mental disorder since the decisions for these philia's till now are not based on medical grounds but on a majority of ethics and morals. After it being socially wrong, extended research followed only to make it official in both legal and biological terms.

All in all, it boils down to you believing Hebephilia being a mental condition because you think it is.

It already is for myself and it should be for others, yes. As I said before, pedophilia was decided a mental disorder based on morals and ethics. Hebephilia is on debate whether it should or should not (be a mental disorder) but will probably also be decided in such a manner.
So I think of hebephilia and ephebophilia being mental disorders (and will always see it that way) simply because (again) I think it's wrong. And "I" can become "we".

What does benefiting your partner have anything to do with sexual preference?

A certain feeling of off-limits should already be present within these "preferences". A feeling of disgust and going against nature even. It off course has nothing to do with the preference but the preference shouldn't be there in the first place. It should simply never "come up".

What are you trying to say here? That Galileo was wrong? Or not?

I was rather being skeptical of you really comparing the two "wrongs" this way. You can turn a right into a wrong proven by facts or you can feel something to be wrong. The latter is what I was implying.

See above regarding you basing right and wrong on your own personal (and at times groundless) beliefs.

I don't see how it's groundless if I think it's a mental disorder based on me finding it not natural and having it fight my sense of right for neither the adult nor, especially, the minor for several reasons. Reasons I think you yourself can come up with, Buff.
It’s a ground based on my beliefs.

I'm assuming you are referring to Xan and not myself.

No, you. I didn't really get you at some points. Like the Galileo or the German p.o.v.'s, involving entirely different situations with no valid points to them at all.

You really like putting words into other people mouths.

Wait, homosexuality is a mental condition because the brain has a different structure? that`s new to me.

I'm not sure if it was the actual structure being different or parts of the brain being differently active compared to heterophiles. I believe this was also tested with serial killers. I saw it on Discovery Channel once.