Hebephilia

[Sapphire]

I took Japanese literature and sexuality and it was all about how in the pre-Meiji period, old men buttsexed little boys all day long. So the little kids were "arguably desirable". How would you guys feel if you were buttsexed from 5 years old?

That's beside my point, though. I could write a thesis on the above topic.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia

Early years of puberty aka 10-11 years old. I interact with kids this age and I assure you they're still KIDS, little babies, even if they have boobies. Who are these people who go "its ok be sexually attracted to them and want to bang them regardless of age as long as she has breasts"??? I maintain that almost all humans are fucking retarded until at least 17 years old and everything younger than that is a fucking little kid and having sex with them is no.

Why would anyone want to have sex with a little 11-12 year old girl, someone explain this to me?
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[darkshadow]

The article you linked clearly says "generally" 11-14, don't downplay it to just 10-11; just because someone enters puberty at 10 doesn't mean most people do, that's why the entire range is important. Shinta might be more interested in the upper range than the lower range.

[Sapphire]

Oh, it's OK to want to put your dick in a 12 year old rather than an 11 year old then? My bad.

[darkshadow]

Oh it's OK to want to put your dick in a 17 year old rather than a fucking retarded 16 year old then? My bad; I wasn't aware a fucking retard goes to a mature genius in just a year.

Don't be silly Sapphi, that's not what I said.

[enkoujin]

Why would anyone want to have sex with a little 11-12 year old girl, someone explain this to me?
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Forbidden concepts appeals the most to people (e.g. sex, pedophilia, science, witchcraft, illicit substances, etc.).

Methinks that people who do like girls this age just have a fetish for petite small-chested women, find that the act(s) with these children is adventurous (becoming desirable) and the need to cause "trauma" to children fill the void in their lives so that these people can forget about their stress or trauma they have experienced, lack of control/influence in their lives.

That or kids these days really need to be taught a "lesson" or two and their parents aren't going to be doing anything about their shitty attitudes. They're spoiled, too loud, obnoxious, think that the world revolves around them, stupid and try to dress seductively like adults because of pop culture influence.

That that or kids just float some boats. It can't be helped.

I don't see how it's good or bad from a reproduction point of view. Unless pregnancies at 10 have higher rates of miscarriages, deformities or still births etc, then I don't see how it's any better or worse than reproduction at 15, 20 or 25. I haven't looked this up, but if pregnancy is possible, I would imagine breast-feeding postbirth is also possible, so the baby won't starve neither.

Only argument that I see could have a solid backing to it would be the effect the weight of a child would have on a growing teenager's backbone - but that's hypothetical (unless you can find something to back it up), and when I remember the weight of backpacks we had to carry in highschool, insignificant.

To direct this back to my intentions, I don't see any problem with your claim that it "wouldn't be a good idea under any circumstance" - just that I wish to clarify that I don't believe it to be a "bad" idea neither.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy#Medical

...The worldwide incidence of premature birth and low birth weight is higher among adolescent mothers...

Never a good thing. The rest of the passages talk about childbirths in developing countries, but you're looking at financial, psychological and career burdens on the mother once they grow up in the developing world (average of ~$300,000 to raise a child these days - plus or minus a couple hundred thousand).

As for what Janice was implying, I believe she was referring to moral standards. Many deviations and such around the Gaussian Curve, but you [and your "wife"] will be condemned by at least 80% of society should one wed and impregnate her at an early age.

You do know that "I stand corrected" means the same as "You are totally right and I am not", don't you?

I do now. My apologies about the wording, I mean "Buffalobiian's argument is valid and plausible, but I think I'm still right.". Thank you for correcting me.

[Kraco]

This is rather interesting from a biological point of view, even if I never really found this topic overly interesting otherwise before reading these posts. Normally when an animal starts to experience sexual drive, it's a signal from the body that it's ready to reproduce. This is especially true for females; males seem to experience immature sexual drive that leads nowhere from what I've seen in documentaries, although that's partially due to females not yet finding them prospective partners or they have no chances against alphas.

So, why do human females, then, become sexually receptive if their bodies are too immature to reproduct? It seems rather unlikely it'd be due to the human intelligence supposedly being capable of controlling the instincts. The only explanation, aside from conspiracy theories against chemical industry, would be that it has been worth the risk during the earlier eras when life expectancy was very low.

To stay more on topic, this whole hebephilia is then an instinct to be able to produce as many offspring as possible before you get eaten by a pack of lions.

[Buffalobiian]

Yes, yes, and yes. The chances of all these occuring are several times higher than in a sexually mature adult. One of the main reasons is that mothers-to-be who are still growing must split their nutritional intake with the baby, resulting in the baby (and the girl, to a lesser extent) becoming significantly malnourished. Often times the pelvic area is not fully formed which can cause complications, too. Things get even worse when the mother is in a third world country where proper nutrition and medical care is unavailable.

Oh really? This article came from wiki's reference list, and shows that while there may be some difference between baby/mother's health of teens vs older women, it's certainly doesn't read as if it was several times higher. Furthermore, they attribute much of the difference to socioeconomic, educational and medical-aid differences. Poor eating habbits, seeking prenatal aid and all are what's largely responsible for these differences in statistics, as opposed to a true biological incompetence for bearing a child.

Underdeveloped pelvic bone structure seems to be one that holds its ground, but that's pretty much taken care of with C-sections in developed worlds.

I took Japanese literature and sexuality and it was all about how in the pre-Meiji period, old men buttsexed little boys all day long. So the little kids were "arguably desirable". How would you guys feel if you were buttsexed from 5 years old?

lol. You've got a funny habbit of connecting two different dots together Sapphi.

Firstly, what you're talking about here isn't whether 5 year olds would like to have sex. What you're asking is whether 5 year olds would like to get RAPED.

Two very different things.

We're talking about the sexual attraction to 11-14 year olds. Not the RAPING of 11-14 year olds.

To answer your question of "How would you guys feel if you were buttsexed from 5 years old?" - I won't like it. I wouldn't have liked it when I was 5, I don't think I would like it now, and I don't think I would like it when I'm 50.

Because I don't like to get buttsexed.

Early years of puberty aka 10-11 years old. I interact with kids this age and I assure you they're still KIDS, little babies, even if they have boobies. Who are these people who go "its ok be sexually attracted to them and want to bang them regardless of age as long as she has breasts"??? I maintain that almost all humans are fucking retarded until at least 17 years old and everything younger than that is a fucking little kid and having sex with them is no.

That post makes it sound like you're discriminating against the mentally retarded. Last time I heard, I wasn't restricted to only wanting to bang people of a certain level of mental maturity.

If we were to follow your logic, then the age of consent should be based on someone's mental age rather than their physical age. Sound right to you?

I believe a re-clarification of the definition of Hebephilia is in order.

It's the sexual preference for 11-14 year olds. Not the act of having intercourse (consensual or not) with them. Some of you seem like you're mistaking Hebephilia for rape in both the consensual sense and the statutory sense.

Why would anyone want to have sex with a little 11-12 year old girl, someone explain this to me?

Why would anyone want to drink beer?

How could I explain to you that some of us like our juicy, tender, "just right" rare steaks and not some dry, hard, well-done piece of shoe?

I think you get my point.

DS has hit the point already regarding the importance of the age bracket instead of a certain age. When the argument mentions 10 year olds, they are imagining a typical 10 year old, and not the early blooming ones.

@enjoukin re: liking obscure taboos. It's true for some. I believe Shinta just likes them the way they are, regardless of whether society accepts them. I doubt he'd like them any less if Hebephilia came under mainstream acceptance.

The rest of the passages talk about childbirths in developing countries, but you're looking at financial, psychological and career burdens on the mother once they grow up in the developing world (average of ~$300,000 to raise a child these days - plus or minus a couple hundred thousand).

The hardships of raising a child when you're not financially or psychologically prepared is indeed hard. I would like to clarify that I never denied that.

I should also add that it would also apply then, to having sex with a bum.


And some food for thought:

1) Homo-sex isn't "biologically sound".
2) Condoms are a great.

[Archangel]

It's amazing that i'm the first one to bring this up but... will some mod or admin move this shit to its own thread? It has NOTHING to do with the thread at all.

[shinta|hikari]

To keep this on topic, though I would have still said it anyway, everything Buff has said made me smile today.

Seriously. Every response I wanted to make, he made ahead of me, either exactly how I wanted to say it or better.

[Sapphire]

It's the sexual preference for 11-14 year olds. Not the act of having intercourse (consensual or not) with them. Some of you seem like you're mistaking Hebephilia for rape in both the consensual sense and the statutory sense.

Sexual preference means you want to have sex with them. It means that rather than have sex with an adult, you'd rather have sex with a child aka 11-14 years old. (OMG maybe the ten year old has boobs, it makes NO difference to me. A 10 year old is still mentally a child.) I'm asking WHY you would want to do that despite the fact that he's/she's mentally a child. I'm not asking why you DID do that. I'm asking WHY you would want to.

PS - I do not condone having sex with mentally retarded people who are mentally children and have no comprehension of what sex even is or what's going on around them. Physically retarded? Sure. Mentally able people having sex with the mentally retarded? No.

That post makes it sound like you're discriminating against the mentally retarded. Last time I heard, I wasn't restricted to only wanting to bang people of a certain level of mental maturity.

Maybe you're trying to be smart, but this post makes it seem like not having sex with mentally retarded people and not having sex with children is discriminating against them. (AKA you give negative connotations for doing this). If so, you disgust me.

[darkshadow]

He's talking about mental maturity, not wether they are children or not. But I guess it does seem like that because you believe 16 year olds are fucking retards while 17 year olds aren't; which is technically still a child.

[Sapphire]

He's talking about mental maturity, not wether they are children or not. But I guess it does seem like that because you believe 16 year olds are fucking retards while 17 year olds aren't; which is technically still a child.

I was being facetious, obviously. So do you think it's OK to have sex with a 10 year old as long as they seem "mentally and physically mature"? I'm sorry, do you think it's OK to want to have sex with them.

[darkshadow]

Well no I don't, but if I would look at it from a pure biological sense and the 10 year old is mentally and physically mature, then what kind of negative implications could it have that would any different for mentally and physically mature 17 year old?

Btw why do you keep pulling it down to 10 year old? That's arguably -not- hebephilia. Stop trying to empower your point with a skewed example.

[Sapphire]

Well no I don't, but if I would look at it from a pure biological sense and the 10 year old is mentally and physically mature, then what kind of negative implications could it have that would any different for mentally and physically mature 17 year old?

One is nearly an adult and one is a child. We're talking about different (psychological, emotional, etc.) realms here.

Btw why do you keep pulling it down to 10 year old? That's arguably -not- hebephilia. Stop trying to empower your point with a skewed example.

I don't really see a significant difference between 10 and 13. There IS however a significant difference between 10/13 and 17 (different realms, as stated earlier).

[darkshadow]

No we aren't, maturity is nothing more than physical and mental characteristics, if an individual is mentally and physically mature then there should be no diference. This is what you asked.

[Sapphire]

No we aren't, maturity is nothing more than physical and mental characteristics, if an individual is mentally and physically mature then there should be no diference. This is what you asked.

And how many 10 year olds do you see with the mind of a young adult/adult (despite having breasts)?

[Janice]

Oh really? This article came from wiki's reference list, and shows that while there may be some difference between baby/mother's health of teens vs older women, it's certainly doesn't read as if it was several times higher.

I'm at work and can't be researching things like hebephilia, but I just copied this from wikipedia:

"The World Health Organization estimates that the risk of death following pregnancy is twice as great for women between 15 and 19 years than for those between the ages of 20 and 24. The maternal mortality rate can be up to five times higher for girls aged between 10 and 14 than for women of about twenty years of age."

I believe this is referring to an undeveloped country, but I'm not sure. Anyway, for those of you who actually believe sex with ten year olds is okay and/or desire it: you're mentally ill and need to get help.

[darkshadow]

This is going off tangent, that is not what Buff's point was about; we never said anything about 10 year olds being mental adults.

I don't really see a significant difference between 10 and 13. There IS however a significant difference between 10/13 and 17 (different realms, as stated earlier).

Then why do you see difference between 17 and 16? The difference has to be pretty significant if you draw the line there.

[Buffalobiian]

Sexual preference means you want to have sex with them. It means that rather than have sex with an adult, you'd rather have sex with a child aka 11-14 years old. (OMG maybe the ten year old has boobs, it makes NO difference to me. A 10 year old is still mentally a child.)

I know what sexual preferece means. I defined it again since your old-men-likes-little-children story sounded like we'll force our desires onto them. Hence my emphasis on preference.

I'm asking WHY you would want to do that despite the fact that he's/she's mentally a child. I'm not asking why you DID do that. I'm asking WHY you would want to.

And then I gave examples of things where people have different preferences, "just because".

I don't know how to put it any more plainly. Perhaps we could start by answering a question of my own:

"What's wrong with having sex with people of lesser mental maturity?"

Maybe you're trying to be smart, but this post makes it seem like not having sex with mentally retarded people and not having sex with children is discriminating against them. (AKA you give negative connotations for doing this). If so, you disgust me.

What DS said.

Let's string this from start to finish to get the whole picture.

I maintain that almost all humans are fucking retarded until at least 17 years old and everything younger than that is a fucking little kid and having sex with them is no.

From this, you can draw that in your books, someone who is fucking retarded is mentally like a little kid, and therefore should not be fucked.

Is the reverse true? That little kids are fucking retarded, and should not be fucked?

That post makes it sound like you're discriminating against the mentally retarded. Last time I heard, I wasn't restricted to only wanting to bang people of a certain level of mental maturity.

Maybe you're trying to be smart, but this post makes it seem like not having sex with mentally retarded people and not having sex with children is discriminating against them. (AKA you give negative connotations for doing this). If so, you disgust me.

By saying we should not fuck the mentally retarded, it effectively means that the mentally retarded should not be fucked. That they should not have sex.

Is that... not (unfairly) discriminating?

It's one thing to keep it as a personal preference, but when you project it onto others as if it's some sort of standard..

[Lucifus]

Shinta's all well and good and the net. But all these lolicon people are weirdo's.