Ikoku Meiro no Croisée

[David75]

I really like your details, particularly about the scenery. Keep them coming as far as I'm concerned.

As for the coffee, I figured it was a percolator. They have been around since the late 1700s. The tip-off was the grandfather putting it back on the stove after he added the coffee.

For the coffee, I guess I was a little intrigued at the way he poured it and the granularity that seemed to be too high. Then that percolator really seemed like old milk or water kettles found in France, but since it is about 120 years ago, I have to be cautious.

Regarding sceneries, I started to search for every places I know of. But this is incredibly time consuming and it's very hard to find the right angles in maps or other sources that match the scene in the anime.

For example, very first image of first ep isn't "Notre Dame" but "La Trinité"
http://maps.google.fr/maps?q=eglise+...9.86,,0,-15.77

Later in the intro you have a very short shot of "L'école Militaire"
Ecole Militaire
http://maps.google.fr/maps?q=Avenue+...02.14,,0,-3.22
In the shot, the view is cut higher, like you are on a high platform bus... pretty much the position Yune seems to be.

[Kraco]

Episode 2 - IB

Also, cheese is odd for breakfast. You would have it in the morning in a "collation" mid-time between breakfast and lunch for people who get up very early and/or have a very demanding job.

While personally I don't see anything odd about cheese for breakfast and while I don't really know the French culture so much, but it's obvious this particular family really loves cheese. Even the geezer said in Japan the lack of cheese was troublesome.

I was also disappointed to have things from the "marché" spoken with their English names.

Yeah, that was surprising in a sad way.

A very entertaining show. Claude is too rough to serve the store well, but at least it creates a nice contrast with Yune and leads to interesting scenes. In just two eps he has had to check his behavior multiple times, which should eventually lead to him getting better at handling people (customers, that is). Of course I hope Yune will also work as a kanban musume.

Is the blond girl in the picture the big department store's owner's daughter or granddaughter?

[David75]

Well, my kind of breakfast and the one we have at hotels in France is on the sugar side. Croissant, pain au chocat, milk, coffee, jam, honey etc... You get ham, eggs and such things in hotels with more international customers. So I've always had the impression that a sugary breakfast is more traditional. But thing is it might vary a lot depending on your social class. Also it might change over time.
The thing that felt right was butter and bread.

Regarding their love for cheese, well I was a hardcore cheese lover, but never felt it right to have some for breakfast first thing in the morning.
They didn't give poor Yune "maroil" or blue cheese - the later shown on the table-.
With maroil, she wouldn't even enter the room harharhar.
The cheese they give her could be cantal cheese
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantal_(cheese)
It's not that strong, somehow someone liking Natto should be able to adjust to the taste. But maybe Yune is too young to like Natto...
Somehow, the fish preparation she mistook that cheese for might be a strong taste too. I don't remember well, will have to check that whenever I have access to a real computer.

[Kraco]

Well, my kind of breakfast and the one we have at hotels in France is on the sugar side. Croissant, pain au chocat, milk, coffee, jam, honey etc... You get ham, eggs and such things in hotels with more international customers. So I've always had the impression that a sugary breakfast is more traditional. But thing is it might vary a lot depending on your social class. Also it might change over time.
The thing that felt right was butter and bread.

Regarding their love for cheese, well I was a hardcore cheese lover, but never felt it right to have some for breakfast first thing in the morning.

Generally speaking sweeter stuff being cheap enough to eat aplenty among the masses is later development, like exactly during the 19th century when sugar began to be shipped from South America in larger quantities, so it's without a doubt that eating habits have changed. Besides, Claude is doing physical work so it makes sense he would like to eat something a bit heartier.

I have always eaten bread and cheese for breakfast (plus something else usually). Don't underestimate it!

[Buffalobiian]

It's not that strong, somehow someone liking Natto should be able to adjust to the taste. But maybe Yune is too young to like Natto...
Somehow, the fish preparation she mistook that cheese for might be a strong taste too. I don't remember well, will have to check that whenever I have access to a real computer.

If fish paste is what I think it is, then it's pretty much mince fish patty. It doesn't have a strong taste. It tastes like bouncy fish, sort of.

[David75]

If fish paste is what I think it is, then it's pretty much mince fish patty. It doesn't have a strong taste. It tastes like bouncy fish, sort of.

I just checked Kamaboko
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamaboko

It is indeed a soft taste.

About the detailed searches and so on, I was wondering if it is ok to let them coming as it is now, or if I should just regroup them in my first posts and try to structure it a bit. There's the idea of having something neat but with potential spoilers early in the thread...
I don't know if I'll keep at it, but there are several pieces of information I'd like to gather and show, because I think it might enrich the experience a bit.

Regarding the story up to now, that second ep had me think there's a contradiction in Claude behavior when he sold Yune's Kimono.
After all he is a fine worker, almost an artist when you see the work of art he did with the metal/glass buterfly. So he should have known better the high value the Kimono had. He only reacted to the 500 Francs he got from this, a thousand times the bacon he bought in that second ep.
Eventhough he might know nothing about clothes, his artistic side should have reacted to the colors, the finely assembled pieces of cloth, the texture and overall magnificence of the thing. Being poor as he is, he should have known no ordinary girl his class get that in France.
So he is very careful with his budget, workplace and belongings, even how Yune might be a bother.
But he never really took the time to think a little before selling the thing. And now he hopes he'll do fine enough to be able to buy it back?
Those 500 Francs he got, huge sum of money at the time, should also have had him react a lot more.
But ok, I understand they need some plot device between him and Yune.

Also, I'm a bit surprised by the grandfather. He has enough power/money to travel to Japan and back and frequents a lady who probably engulfs lots of his money in restaurants/gifts/anything... yet Claude works hard for his living. So I'm wondering about their family structure. I'm also waiting for a detailed explanation of how he came to come back to France with Yune.

[Kraco]

You are forgetting that despite being an artist of a talent, Claude is still a businessman as well. If Yune really wanted to sell the kimono, like she insisted against his initial word of caution, then who was he to deny it? He only began to regret it when he learned it was a memento, which was well explainable by how he was attached to the light fixture created by his own dad. So, it was only at that point he knew Yune wanted to sell the kimono not as a simple financial compensation and to aid the store, but out of insecurity and fear of being rejected and left alone in a foreign country.

But yeah, he probably shouldn't have been so eager, especially when he was dealing with a kid.

[Ryllharu]

Regarding the story up to now, that second ep had me think there's a contradiction in Claude behavior when he sold Yune's Kimono.
After all he is a fine worker, almost an artist when you see the work of art he did with the metal/glass buterfly. So he should have known better the high value the Kimono had.
...[snip]...
But he never really took the time to think a little before selling the thing. And now he hopes he'll do fine enough to be able to buy it back?

I was under the impression that he simply disregarded everything about Yune up until he finally realized how valuable the kimono was, both in terms of sentimental value and actual craftsmanship value. He works with iron, and Japanese clothing was utterly foreign to him. He sees Yune in fairly elaborate kimono most of the time, not realizing how much time it takes to actually weave one, particularly like her mother's. To him, they probably seemed what pass for "ordinary" in Japan. The 500 francs seemed like a large sum for such an "ordinary" garment from exotic Japan.

So I don't think being an artist would have helped him. He knows next to nothing about Japan (as he finally considers studying up in episode 2). Everything he knew about Japan at the moment he agreed to sell it was what he's seen from Yune. Her equally elaborate kimono from their first meeting, her not-exactly-plain one she uses while working around the shop, etc. She had been dressing to impress since they met. He also actively ignored her. The shock came to him when he found out it was a keepsake, and a very expensive one at that.

I'm certain the kimono sold for many, many times the value Claude got for it.

He has enough power/money to travel to Japan and back and frequents a lady who probably engulfs lots of his money in restaurants/gifts/anything... yet Claude works hard for his living. So I'm wondering about their family structure. I'm also waiting for a detailed explanation of how he came to come back to France with Yune.

Very good questions. I share each of them. He does seem rather eager to spend money where Claude seems like he is struggling.

[Buffalobiian]

So, it was only at that point he knew Yune wanted to sell the kimono not as a simple financial compensation and to aid the store, but out of insecurity and fear of being rejected and left alone in a foreign country

I didn't think it had anything to do with being insecure at all, but that Yune deems that she needs to compoensate for something she brike, and can only do so with something of equal value.

Since it's the monetary value of the sign that Claude "lost", she felt that it's only fair to give him an equally important keepsake of her own. At that point, it was Claude who decided to sell it since he had no wish to keep it.

[David75]

I stumbled upon a french thread in an animation forum from people that seem to have participated in the project. There are 3D sketches uses by satellight for the anime.
I will post that tonight, if not too tired since I'm currently burning out...

[Kraco]

I didn't think it had anything to do with being insecure at all, but that Yune deems that she needs to compoensate for something she brike, and can only do so with something of equal value.

Since it's the monetary value of the sign that Claude "lost", she felt that it's only fair to give him an equally important keepsake of her own. At that point, it was Claude who decided to sell it since he had no wish to keep it.

She seemed to be awfully moved when Claude promised to get it back. If she considered it a mere financial compensation, nothing more, I think she would have insisted it was a fair trade and Claude doesn't need to strive to get it back. I admit I might have used too strong expressions, but I deem at that point she was far from sure if she's allowed to stay or not. The last words from Claude were that she should return to Japan. So, she obviously went for her most precious possession. Besides, she's still a kid.

In reality people were still being treated like dirt in the 19th century, so I'm happy this show necessarily isn't all that realistic and Yune gets pretty friendly and gentle treatment, making this a joy to watch.

[shinta|hikari]

Really cute and cool pic:

Dress a loli

Click the kimono options on the left to see her change!

[Buffalobiian]

She seemed to be awfully moved when Claude promised to get it back. If she considered it a mere financial compensation, nothing more, I think she would have insisted it was a fair trade and Claude doesn't need to strive to get it back. I admit I might have used too strong expressions, but I deem at that point she was far from sure if she's allowed to stay or not. The last words from Claude were that she should return to Japan. So, she obviously went for her most precious possession. Besides, she's still a kid.

In reality people were still being treated like dirt in the 19th century, so I'm happy this show necessarily isn't all that realistic and Yune gets pretty friendly and gentle treatment, making this a joy to watch.

Indeed, the fact that Yune was pleased when Claude said he'd get it back confused me, and seemed to go against my thoughts.

I just can't see why Yune would compensate for monetary reasons though.. It wasn't like he broke something that he couldn't fix, and the client certainly didn't charge anything for it. Unless the coal, time and manual labour involved was worth as much as 500 franc.

[Kraco]

I just can't see why Yune would compensate for monetary reasons though.. It wasn't like he broke something that he couldn't fix, and the client certainly didn't charge anything for it. Unless the coal, time and manual labour involved was worth as much as 500 franc.

That seems a bit strange, but when you consider it from her point of view it makes more sense: She only just got there, received a dubious welcome at best (from Claude), tried hard to prove her worth - only to end up breaking Claude's treasure. So, even if Claude did fix it in (mere) hours, I'm sure she was desperate to do something to contribute positively. And being a kid, it was a reckless thing she did and caused only more trouble and anguish for Claude in the long run. But it did prove quite exquisitely her dedication and goodwill, and that got through to Claude.

[David75]

From that thread in french:
http://www.catsuka.com/interf/forum/...=7157&start=15
It seems the guy was part of a team working with satellight during spring of 2010 for Ikoku Meiro no Croisée.
Galerie_02.jpg
Galerie_06.jpg
Galerie_07.jpg
CR_01_169_%2525E5%25258E%25259F%2525E5%25259B%2525B3.jpg
CR_01_004_%2525E5%25258E%25259F%2525E5%25259B%2525B3.jpg
CR_01_001_%2525E5%25258E%25259F%2525E5%25259B%2525B3.jpg

[David75]

Mandatory double post because of the 6 image limit per post:
CR_claude_no_mise_cleanR.jpg
CR_atelier1.jpg
croise_dining1R2.jpg
Galerie_00_plan1.jpg
Galerie_00_plan4.jpg
Galerie_magasin_mignesard1.jpg

[David75]

And now Triple post:
food%252520reference.jpg
Yes, they had french words for the "marché"...
Grand_magasin1.jpg
CR_02_006_%2525E5%25258E%25259F%2525E5%25259B%2525B3.jpg
CR_02_005_%2525E5%25258E%25259F%2525E5%25259B%2525B3.jpg

Now, in that thread I learn there is a 4.5 ep as a bonus and we even get chibi Yune eps. Here's an example with a minor spoiler in it (do not watch if you do not even tolerate minor spoilers!!!)


And picture from 2 of the seiyus:
U_8424a17c56dd75051011443f53422add183eaa57.jpeg

If you have questions....

[Buffalobiian]

Talk about detail..

[Kraco]

Indeed. I wonder how much of this lineart was adapted from photos, though. Some of the grander Parisian places outdoors were, yes, but I guess the smaller things, especially the inside of the shop, can't be.

[David75]

From the thread, the guy explains he studied every page of the manga where the workshop is and worked from there with other sources of information to have the correct tools for the job/era.
Regarding the galerie, he tells us the mangaka created it from multiple ones, the guy doing the lineart for the anime recreated it from that source and completed it with books about galeries and again tried his best to exclude anything anachronistic.

For outdoors, he worked from postcards/pictures around the time the anime takes place. They had to remove some monuments/buildings at times... Well they tried their best.
I think it's great a japanese team decided to have a french team work on such important parts. Even if it can not be perfect in the end, at least the quality level clearly improved.
With that thread, I learnt those guys work for other japanese projects.
Thing is, France is the second Japanese Manga market after Japan... it's not unnatural to see joint project I guess. It's just that with that anime, it becomes a lot more concrete to me.