Naruto Shippuuden Episode 211

[DarthEnderX]

I'll be really pissed if Kishimoto makes up another batch of characters from nowhere just to fawn all over Sasuke and be expendable.

You want to treat your underlings as cannonfodder, fine, but you should at least have to suffer the consequences of...running out of underlings.

Although, really, you could say he already has replacements. Between Madara's ability to pull him out of danger, and Zetsu's ability to refill his chakra, he's already got his next group of support staff all lined up for him...

[Buffalobiian]

Well, unless Danzou had another dozen Sharingans at home to replace the ones he used, and another arm made out of 1st Hokage, yeah, Sasuke could pretty much take him at any time.

The abilities Danzou expended during this fight are abilities he can never replace.

What about abilities he has yet to show? For one, he could have casted Shisui's genjutsu on him if he wasn't saving it for Madara. He could also have used that eye to activate Izanagi once again. Don't forget that Sasuke was (supposed to be) out of chakra. That sword clash was supposed to be the final attack for either of them.

Nothing's certain in a fight such as the one they just had.

All Sasuke did was use Danzo's weaknesses against him (his monitoring of his active Sharingans, his confidence that Sasuke won't attack as long as he had Karin).

[Kraco]

Back when Taka was formed? She had to heal him again literally 30 seconds before he ran her through.

Did he think he somehow evolved beyond the need for a healer during that 30 seconds?

That doesn't mean anything, or rather, it only underlines what I said. One more reminder to Sasuke he isn't so tough yet, one more reason for him to force himself not to rely on anybody, especially somebody as weak as Karin (in battle). If you know you have a healer at hand, you can use strategy involving healing afterwards. If you don't have a healer, you must do things so you don't need one.

Considering the dodgy Nature of Sasuke's quest against Konoha (although we don't yet know the details nor might he know them himself), having friends tagging along is a bit questionable in any case. It makes no sense. He has got nothing to do after the mission is finished, having dedicated himself to revenge, so why should uninvolved people be involved in the first place? As tools, nothing else.

[DarthEnderX]

What about abilities he has yet to show? For one, he could have casted Shisui's genjutsu on him if he wasn't saving it for Madara. He could also have used that eye to activate Izanagi once again. Don't forget that Sasuke was (supposed to be) out of chakra. That sword clash was supposed to be the final attack for either of them.

Nothing's certain in a fight such as the one they just had.

By that logic, he couldn't be certain stabbing through Karin would have ended the fight either. Especially with Danzou having an eye to use Izanagi left. He could have ended up running her through for nothing.

That doesn't mean anything, or rather, it only underlines what I said. One more reminder to Sasuke he isn't so tough yet, one more reason for him to force himself not to rely on anybody, especially somebody as weak as Karin (in battle). If you know you have a healer at hand, you can use strategy involving healing afterwards. If you don't have a healer, you must do things so you don't need one.

So...the fact that he constantly needs to be healed...means he should get rid of his healer.

You seem to be implying that, the only reason Sasuke needs to be healed, is because he's being reckless, and he's only being reckless BECAUSE he has a medic.

That implies that, if Sasuke didn't have a healer, he'd be more cautious, but he'd still be winning.

It's because, straight up, Sasuke is NOT strong enough to beat these people on his own. He would have died 3 times fighting Bee without Taka. He would have died 5 times fighting the Kage's without Taka and Akatsuki, and he would have died again fighting Danzou if it weren't for Karin.

You say, "If you know you have a healer at hand, you can use strategy involving healing afterwards. If you don't have a healer, you must do things so you don't need one." But the fact is there IS nothing he could do to fight so he wouldn't need a healer. Because he's WEAKER than these people he's defeating. If he didn't have his healer, he'd be LOSING these fights, no matter what he did.

The fact that he can he can do something mutually self destructive against Danzou and live through it because he gets healed is the ONLY reason he can beat Danzou in the first place.

[Kraco]

True indeed. However, the thing he could have done is not to rush things and use clever plans and strategy, not jump into the middle of the enemies with no other plans than a couple of powerful jutsu that might or might not work for a while. If his plan is to punish Konoha, he really doesn't need to fight against all the bosses of all the hidden villages - and all at once to boot.

And just for the record, I'm not trying to say he's wise at all acting ruthlessly like this. I simply say it could be understandable from his point of view. Being suicidal is understandable as well because it certainly doesn't seem like he plans to happily live ever after.

But then again, it could be he's simply so blinded by his idea of a cold avenger that he hit through Karin for no reason.

[$0ft*]

You say, "If you know you have a healer at hand, you can use strategy involving healing afterwards. If you don't have a healer, you must do things so you don't need one." But the fact is there IS nothing he could do to fight so he wouldn't need a healer. Because he's WEAKER than these people he's defeating. If he didn't have his healer, he'd be LOSING these fights, no matter what he did.

WRONG! we do not know anything about Danzo.. except that he was a big coward and was hiding all the time. Most likely bodyguards of Danzou were even stronger than him(together). Since Sasuke was learning from Orochimaru who was a "jutsu gatherer" there are endless possibilities how Sasuke could avoid getting killed or beaten down if he was alone or in a sticky situation with 5 kages and so on. Since most of them underestimate him because of he Uchiha drama they don't know what he is capable of especially if you haven't noticed Sasuke's strenght is that after each fight he gets lots stronger.
Sure he could prolong the fight with smart tactics and find the enemies weakness with longer time, but as some people are agressive poker players and some passive, he clearly is agressive and in his case with susano & all the other stuff he has under his cattle he obviously has everything to be agressive & reckless.

[DarthEnderX]

Since Sasuke was learning from Orochimaru who was a "jutsu gatherer" there are endless possibilities how Sasuke could avoid getting killed or beaten down if he was alone or in a sticky situation with 5 kages and so on.

In case you hadn't noticed, Sasuke LOST all of his Orochimaru powers when Itachi pulled him out of him. He doesn't have his cursed seal, he can't summon snakes anymore, he can't shed his body anymore...

Sasuke wasn't even able to STAND anymore. But Danzou was more or less fully mobile after breaking off his Hokage arm.

Sasuke would have LOST at that point if he hadn't been healed by Karin.

Sure he could prolong the fight with smart tactics and find the enemies weakness with longer time, but as some people are agressive poker players and some passive, he clearly is agressive and in his case with susano & all the other stuff he has under his cattle he obviously has everything to be agressive & reckless.

Not anymore he doesn't. Since "Susano'o and all the other stuff" hasn't allowed him to beat ANYONE without the needing to be healed afterwards. And now, he doesn't have a healer.

So, no, he doesn't have everything he needs to be aggressive & reckless.


What should realistically happen now, is Sasuke should run off to his next fight after this battle, rush into his next battle just like he's rushed into every other fight he's had recently, kick some ass for awhile, but ultimately overextend himself and end up defeated just like he has the last THREE times now. Only this time, because he killed off his medic, he'd actually die because of it.

That won't happen though, because Sasuke is a complete Villain Sue. And Kishimoto will make sure to give him whatever he needs to continue succeeding.

[$0ft*]

I think this isn't really a debate deserving discussiong since he is one of the main characters. But you are right about Orochimaru's abilities :S i missed that one for a sec, anyhow real question is when will sasuke confront Madara, as we all remember Sasuke killed Oro after he had passed him in strenght..?

[DarthEnderX]

But you are right about Orochimaru's abilities :S i missed that one for a sec

Originally, I thought it was just the Cursed Seal that Itachi got rid of. But he hasn't used a single one of Oro's powers since that fight, and the fact that he just summoned a hawk instead of a snake pretty much confirms it.

Somehow, pulling Oro out of Sasuke has caused him to forget every technique Oro taught him.

when will sasuke confront Madara, as we all remember Sasuke killed Oro after he had passed him in strenght..?

Man, I hope that doesn't happen. Nothing makes the heroes in your series seem more useless than having your main villains killed off by other villains.

Also, Madara is an Uchiha. His Clan seems to be the only think Sasuke still cares at all about. He probably won't go against Madara.

[Kraco]

Also, Madara is an Uchiha. His Clan seems to be the only think Sasuke still cares at all about. He probably won't go against Madara.

I haven't of late been getting an impression Sasuke cares about anybody anymore, not even himself considering his style of fighting. Sure, he has served Madara, but I'd say only because Madara told him what Sasuke believes is the truth and is also planning to punish Konoha. But I doubt he would hesitate to slay Madara if it helped him to obliterate Konoha.

If he really cared about Uchiha, he wouldn't single-mindedly seek revenge at any cost but would be knocking girls up here and there (he surely would succeed at that vastly better than his old competitor, Naruto).

[chambers]

Sad thing is Suigetsu is more than likely one of the more interesting characters in this anime at the moment but i guess gets getting like dragon ball in that no one matters but goku, and in this case its naruto and sasuke.

[DarthEnderX]

If he really cared about Uchiha, he wouldn't single-mindedly seek revenge at any cost but would be knocking girls up here and there (he surely would succeed at that vastly better than his old competitor, Naruto).

I dunno, I bet right about now, Naruto could get a lot of play around Konoha.

On top of that, clones would let him be a lot more prolific than Sasuke.

[Buffalobiian]

By that logic, he couldn't be certain stabbing through Karin would have ended the fight either. Especially with Danzou having an eye to use Izanagi left. He could have ended up running her through for nothing.

Yep.

He had the choice of attacking Danzo with the possibility of either killing him or relieving him of his hostage, while (highly possibly) killing Karin, or

Letting Danzo keep Karin as a hostage (with no guarantee that she'll be his again anyway), risk letting one of his targets of revenge get away (and being much more alert from now on, as well as knowing many of his abilities), or even getting killed.


Sasuke chose the second option, which isn't very surprising really.

[DarthEnderX]

Sasuke chose the second option, which isn't very surprising really.

It would have surprised me about 10 episodes ago.

[Kraco]

On top of that, clones would let him be a lot more prolific than Sasuke.

Clones might let him have more action, but pregnancies would never happen with the sperm suddenly going poof!

I'm also not so sure Naruto would be now an instant romantic hit among women despite being a local hero. He still the same old idiotic kid deep down. The whole scenario would also assume Sasuke never became a ruthless murderer and scumbag. I'm sure right now he would already need to rely on genjutsu...

[DarthEnderX]

Clones might let him have more action, but pregnancies would never happen with the sperm suddenly going poof!

The clone just has to hold out until cell division. Once that happens, you're all set!

The whole scenario would also assume Sasuke never became a ruthless murderer and scumbag. I'm sure right now he would already need to rely on genjutsu...

Bah, you're assuming the average woman on the street KNOWS he's a murdering scumbag. I'm sure he would have no trouble just getting by on his looks.

[Buffalobiian]

Regarding my post, I meant the first option, my pardon.

[$0ft*]

Originally, I thought it was just the Cursed Seal that Itachi got rid of. But he hasn't used a single one of Oro's powers since that fight, and the fact that he just summoned a hawk instead of a snake pretty much confirms it.

Somehow, pulling Oro out of Sasuke has caused him to forget every technique Oro taught him.

I don't think so, since Sasuke got his new bad-ass eyes he is just been using all of the cool Uchicha stuff I bet sooner or later when he is in trouble he will pull out some summoning walls and some other snakeshit. Remember Itachi gave Sasuke his eyes, he probably gave some other cool stuff too what is yet to be explored, let alone the "seed" he planted in Naruto - which should activate when they confront each other. Which also means that most of Madaras stories are true sons of rinnengan user one with great stamina and other with strenght(?) will always fight each other and confront in the end.
I'm pretty sure also, that it is too early to tell about Karin, but we will find out about it hopefully this week


OT: murderers & villans have always been loved by women, because of their dangerous and interesting livestyle, those woman always thought they could change those criminals, but in the end the man was only after their own secret out of reality goal.

[lelouch]

I don't think so, since Sasuke got his new bad-ass eyes he is just been using all of the cool Uchicha stuff I bet sooner or later when he is in trouble he will pull out some summoning walls and some other snakeshit.

No, he lost his snake abilities.

[DarthEnderX]

No, he lost his snake abilities.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but that seems to be the case.

I understand that purifying Sasuke of Orochimaru would, say, removed the cursed seal. Since the seal is a part of Orochimaru.

But causing him to just...forget all of Oro's techniques. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean, what does being able to Summon Snakes have to do with being controlled by Oro?