Hold him hostage like his wife and mother suggested?
Hold him hostage like his wife and mother suggested?
Peace.
Well Karstark was trying to prove a point that Robb was weak/soft, calling him a pussy because he doesn't want to kill anyone. If he had let him live, everyone would still think he is weak.
Holding a lord hostage to control his army isn't weak, it's smart.
If he had let the guy go free, that would be weak.
Even if his people did see it as weakness, at least he still had a full army. It might have even been seen as mercy. Of course, there might be negative effects in the hostage scenario as well, such as some groups losing trust in their leader, but it would still be better than losing half his army.
Peace.
Killing the guy was weak AND stupid. Weak because he acted out of anger and stupid because the consequences were insane losses.
"Leaving hell is not the same as entering it." - Tierce Japhrimel
If you hold their Lord hostage, their army will rebel. For some reason, it was kind of weird that Karstark's army didn't rebel after their Lord got executed.
Robb hasn't made the best of decisions but I don't think holding Rickard Karstark captive would have done much to 'control' his army. Sure he could have kept the army intact for just a bit longer but those Karstark men would hardly be loyal to him. They would probably seek out the first opportunity to rescue their lord and backstab him.
Robb lost control of half of his army by losing control of Rickard Karstark. It was too little too late to salvage the situation. I dont think he had any choice but to cut them loose.
Does Robb even have a plan? I guess at this point, I'd be frustrated knowing Robb isn't in control.
There's one more trouble brewing in the east thought, the Frey of the twins. I guess he plans to resolve that.
Thanks shinta|hikari for the sig.
They basically did rebel. Going home in defiance of Robb's wishes is open rebellion against him.Originally Posted by lilphatboi88
He was screwed from the moment Catelyn released Jaime. Karstark was bound to act in retaliation for that and once he did there were no good options left. He would have showed his utter lack of authority by letting Karstark commit clandestine executions in his own camp. As Splash! pointed out, if Karstark could just kill people with impunity and Robb lets him out with a slap on the wrist, it would create a power vacuum that would be filled by Karstark himself or any other of Robb's power-hungry bannermen.
The actions of that stupid uncle (the one who couldn't shoot the drifting corpse) have come back to haunt Robb in the worst possible way. If only he hadn't gone after the kids in the first place and completely screwed up Robb's plans to corner Gregor Clegane...
So true...maybe Robb just has very incapable commanders under him.
This is true, actually. It's pretty obvious Y is speaking from a more developed (from book) understanding of the plot points and motivations of the characters.
Like how Lord Baelish gives two shits about the realm was only touched upon and hinted at until the scene where he says "chaos is a ladder," but Y talks about it from a "fully informed" stand point. Good bye, epic blossom of character development I could have experienced.
"Leaving hell is not the same as entering it." - Tierce Japhrimel
What the hell are you on about? Varys, as Arch quoted, says that Littlefinger "would burn down the realm to be king of the ashes" a few episodes ago, along with the revelation that he was bankrupting the realm. It's not something I'm spoiling, it's something that is explicitly spelled out in the episode I'm commenting on.
Are you really such a jackass that you're blaming me for the fact that other people are reading spoilers out of my posts?
EDIT:
Your fucking thread OP says that you "liked the show so much, that I immediately got the book and read it. Then read all the summaries on Wikipedia, then skimmed the rest of the books... So much for spoiler control."
What the hell? So it's OK for you to post, because you didn't get the character development that is present in the series when you spoiled it for yourself a long time ago, but I can't post because I understand things too well? I mean seriously, "Littlefinger is self-serving" is the least fucking spoilery comment you could possibly make about Littlefinger. Every word out of his mouth, every action absolutely screams that.
Like I said, it was hinted at (eunuch's opinion, could have been wrong) and never fully admitted to until Baelish said it himself. Notice the atmosphere of the scene that indicates revelation.
Leave it to you to get your panties all up in a bunch and get defensive without taking a hint to lay off the "correcting" people so hard. Well, whatever, I'll just put you on ignore until the season's over so I can enjoy the rest of people's posts (somehow they know how not to spoiler).
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There's almost too much epicness in this episode to talk about.
Tywin is such a badass. I wouldn't say he asks for greatness, strives for it or even demands it. These things imply that there is some sort of motivation behind acquiring it. He just dwells in it. He never stops. I mean, seven kingdoms? All these people are killing themselves for one damn throne and he has seven kingdoms, and that's like monopoly property to him. I mean, how much reach
Like Baelish and the eunuch, he's learned that it's far more frugal to command things from behind the scenes and let someone else be stupidly in the spotlight.
I'm not sure if he's a douche to his kids because he hates them, or if he's just a hardass all the time and is good at acting charming to get what he wants. I'm willing to guess that he's a dick to anyone he thinks is incompetent, even if it means being a dick to his own kids. He genuinely enjoyed Maerge's grandma's company, which was a sight to see. I imagine his wife was equally as witty and charming, which is why it hit him so hard when she died. I need some more charming Tywin!
Thank god Daeny wasn't in this ep. I love her and all, but I was getting tired of watching her burn EVERYTHING. Is she starting to feel one dimensional for anyone else? I'd love to see a damn soft side or some weakness, or something.
Last edited by Sapphire; Mon, 05-06-2013 at 02:26 AM.
"Leaving hell is not the same as entering it." - Tierce Japhrimel
This is my last post in your shit thread, asshole.
EDIT:
You already posted that you spoiled yourself so this whole exchange is literally just you blowing smoke up your ass because you think you're a great poster who can pretend to not have read the books better than me.
Wow, I know I said I'd put you on ignore but I had to see what sort of knee-jerk response you'd have within seconds of me writing something
This obviously isn't "my" shit thread, I'm just the gal who started it. If anything it's "your" shit thread since you've contributed the most (shit?) in terms of post count. You rly should see a therapist, for reasons obvious btw.
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Speaking of therapists, I don't really see how Cersei is getting the shit end of the deal by marrying Loras? Loras is a nice guy, and it's pretty common knowledge to everyone but Sansa that he's gay. So she'll have a position of power and basically get to bang whoever she wants while he bangs whoever he wants (until it's time to have babies, anyway). If anything, they'll probably have separate chambers.
"Leaving hell is not the same as entering it." - Tierce Japhrimel
She hates the Tyrells too much even if it is the smart move for them. At this point Cersei's judgements are really dumb. Even Tywin said that she is not as smart as she think she is.
Tywin Vs Queen of Thorns round 1! Looking forward to more clashes between these two.
Last edited by oyabun; Mon, 05-06-2013 at 03:51 AM.
Thanks shinta|hikari for the sig.
It's true Y. Please continue to post though. When Varys hinted at Baelish just wanting to destroy the realm, I imagined that was a ploy to get Marjorie's grandma's support, or at least unite them with a common enemy.
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This episode was kind of boring, a little too gory for my taste. However, I did like Tywin and the grandma talking. I liked Varys and Littlefinger going at it. I also enjoyed the witch's encounter with the bastard king child and Arya.
So I take it the Tyrell's have left King's Landing? Did Marjorie leave too?
I honestly don't know how anyone could pretend that "Littlefinger is self-serving," is a spoiler. It hasn't been obvious since this episode where he admitted chaos is a ladder for his ambitions, it hasn't been obvious since Varys said he'd rather burn it all down to be king of the ashes, it hasn't been obvious since he betrayed Ned Stark.
It has been obvious since the first time he tried to get Catelyn to leave Ned. He was trying everything he could do to get Catelyn, stability be damned, his reputation be damned, her reputation be damned. When he finally realized he'd lost her forever, he just switched to Sansa, not looking to be king of the North, just to have her as a mistress, because it would be kinda like having Catelyn.
Every. Single. Line. Anytime he speaks in that gravelly tone, it reeks of his destructive ambitions. A credit to his actor, playing such a one-dimensional character in a way that makes you think he is that much more, just like Littlefinger wants to be seen as.
This is such a non-issue, and I regret even having to comment on it, at the risk of continuing it.
Robb keeps wondering why he is winning every battle, but losing the war. It's pretty obvious to me, and probably the men around him. He's a good person, but a terribly shitty leader. He's too strong when he shouldn't be, too soft when he shouldn't be, and breaks alliances only to need them again, but now with terms twice as bad.
Great acting by the guy torturing Theon.
Exactly why I hate Littlefinger so much. Almost every important character has been shown to care about something besides themselves (well except for maybe Joffrey). Cersei has her kids and Jaime, Tywin cares about the family name, Varys cares about the realm, etc. Littlefinger is by far the most self-absorbed character in this show.
The conversation between Lady Olenna and Tywin was pretty awesome. I dont think I remember a situation where someone was completely unfazed by Tywin's presence.
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