Naruto Shippuuden Episode 206

[Buffalobiian]

But if it's only chakra he'd need then control by the Sharingan would be futile cause it wouldn't be the actual fox.

I'm not understanding this. Can you explain it a little?

[Killa-Eyez]

Well you said he'd need a nasty burst of Kyuubi chakra but that it wouldn't work against the Sharingan since it can control the Kyuubi. If Naruto's only lending chakra and Naruto would transform it into something counter effective the Sharingan would be futile in controlling it.

[DarthEnderX]

It seems that Madara and Sasuke are the only two who can tame the fox, maybe cause of their Mangekyou Sharingan.

I don't know if I'd call what Sasuke did "taming the fox". All he did was cut Naruto off from the Fox's power from the inside. That's not really as impressive as actually controlling a freed tailed beast into attacking who you want.

[Buffalobiian]

If Naruto's only lending chakra and Naruto would transform it into something counter effective the Sharingan would be futile in controlling it.

???

Naruto's lending chakra?

When Naruto's under Genjutsu control, his chakra's being manipulated. He can try to snap out of it himself, or otherwise have an external source insert a surge of chakra into him to disrupt the flow of the genjutsu caster.

Since he has the Kyuubi in him, I thought that it might have worked as the secondary source.

But if the Kyuubi can be controlled by the sharingan, then when Naruto is under genjutsu the Kyuubi itself may also be affected, thereby stopping it from being able to make a decision to forcefully insert chakra into Naruto.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Unless naruto's training of controlling the kyuubi he's been doing is enough to keep the kyuubi from succumbing to the sharingan's control. And we don't know to what effect it will have to the tailed beast while its sealed.... we've only seen it be completely controlled when Madara worked his magic. At the beginning of shippuden I do remember the whole scene where the big bad fox says "Havent felt chakra like this since madara" and sasuke makes him go poof. Did he actually put kyuubi out of commission or was that just a mindfuck kinda thing? Still if Naruto is all synced up and in tune with his inner beast I doubt Sasuke would be able to repeat that.

[Killa-Eyez]

I don't know if I'd call what Sasuke did "taming the fox". All he did was cut Naruto off from the Fox's power from the inside. That's not really as impressive as actually controlling a freed tailed beast into attacking who you want.

I don't know if he did anything really, but he does wield this power, as the Kyuubi said.

???

Naruto's lending chakra?

When Naruto's under Genjutsu control, his chakra's being manipulated. He can try to snap out of it himself, or otherwise have an external source insert a surge of chakra into him to disrupt the flow of the genjutsu caster.

Since he has the Kyuubi in him, I thought that it might have worked as the secondary source.

But if the Kyuubi can be controlled by the sharingan, then when Naruto is under genjutsu the Kyuubi itself may also be affected, thereby stopping it from being able to make a decision to forcefully insert chakra into Naruto.

Yes, Naruto lending chakra from the Kyuubi, as he did many times before. With that I think it's very possible to disrupt the Genjutsu without the Kyuubi itself being manipulated. You said so yourself, Naruto's chakra is being manipulated, not the Kyuubi's.

Naruto still does not want to use the Kyuubi's power after what happened to Sakura so I don't think there will be a bond strong enough for both of them to be controlled by a Sharingan Genjutsu.

Also he'd probably want to figure something out without using the Kyuubi's power for the same reason.

Unless naruto's training of controlling the kyuubi he's been doing is enough to keep the kyuubi from succumbing to the sharingan's control. And we don't know to what effect it will have to the tailed beast while its sealed.... we've only seen it be completely controlled when Madara worked his magic. At the beginning of shippuden I do remember the whole scene where the big bad fox says "Havent felt chakra like this since madara" and sasuke makes him go poof. Did he actually put kyuubi out of commission or was that just a mindfuck kinda thing? Still if Naruto is all synced up and in tune with his inner beast I doubt Sasuke would be able to repeat that.

I guess there are too many loose ends to confirm anything. I personally think it's just a mindfuck thing. But in a visual metaphorical way it could mean that Sasuke can help Naruto get rid of the control the Kyuubi has over him. We'll have to find out.

[Buffalobiian]

Yes, Naruto lending chakra from the Kyuubi, as he did many times before. With that I think it's very possible to disrupt the Genjutsu without the Kyuubi itself being manipulated. You said so yourself, Naruto's chakra is being manipulated, not the Kyuubi's.

Naruto still does not want to use the Kyuubi's power after what happened to Sakura so I don't think there will be a bond strong enough for both of them to be controlled by a Sharingan Genjutsu.

Also he'd probably want to figure something out without using the Kyuubi's power for the same reason.

I don't think Naruto would be able to call on the Kyuubi when he's under manipulation. He's stuck in a genjutsu and can't even control himself, let alone will himself to summon some Kyuubi chakra. His first port of call is to try to snap himself out of it - like a dream. If you can't even call upon yourself to wake yourself up, communication with the outside seems unlikely to me.

That's why the Nine Tales has to be the one to INJECT his chakra on his own accord when he senses Naruto's hit, rather than having Naruto ask for it. But if the Nine Tales is also under control from the Sharingan, then him being able to act freely is also questionable.

Side note: Naruto borrows, Kyuubi lends. <- that's what mostly confused me.

[DarthEnderX]

I don't think Naruto would be able to call on the Kyuubi when he's under manipulation. He's stuck in a genjutsu and can't even control himself, let alone will himself to summon some Kyuubi chakra. His first port of call is to try to snap himself out of it - like a dream. If you can't even call upon yourself to wake yourself up, communication with the outside seems unlikely to me.

The Ninetails has shown in the past that it can act completely without input from Naruto. Like when Sasuke broke his neck in part one. He was basically dead, but the Ninetails stepped in anyway.

Genjutsu usually just effect the flow of chakra in the users brain, since the Ninetails is down in his stomach, he should be able to send a chakra surge to break Naruto free.


I'm STILL dying to know what Itachi implanted in Naruto that one time. It would be awesome if it just, like, broke Sasuke's Tsukiyomi when he tried to use it on Naruto.

Knowing Shounen anime though, it'll be a spirit projection like the kind the 4th left inside Naruto that will come out at the climactic moment and say something profound that will get Sasuke to see the error of his ways.

[Buffalobiian]

The Ninetails has shown in the past that it can act completely without input from Naruto. Like when Sasuke broke his neck in part one. He was basically dead, but the Ninetails stepped in anyway.

I know. I'm responding to KEyes suggestion that Naruto can call out KB's chakra even if KB itself was under control (or something like that, I think?).

Genjutsu usually just effect the flow of chakra in the users brain, since the Ninetails is down in his stomach, he should be able to send a chakra surge to break Naruto free.

Regular genjutsu, sure. But Sasuke and Madara both know about Naruto's Kyuubei, and they both have the Sharingan. I'm proposing the possibility that they can cast something at the same time that would screw up both Naruto and the KB.

[Killa-Eyez]

Side note: Naruto borrows, Kyuubi lends. <- that's what mostly confused me.

Oh yeah, my bad. Naruto borrows. We Dutch have one word for both meanings so an honest mistake on my part.

I don't think Naruto would be able to call on the Kyuubi when he's under manipulation. He's stuck in a genjutsu and can't even control himself, let alone will himself to summon some Kyuubi chakra. His first port of call is to try to snap himself out of it - like a dream. If you can't even call upon yourself to wake yourself up, communication with the outside seems unlikely to me.

That's why the Nine Tales has to be the one to INJECT his chakra on his own accord when he senses Naruto's hit, rather than having Naruto ask for it. But if the Nine Tales is also under control from the Sharingan, then him being able to act freely is also questionable.

It's said only the brain's chakra is under influence by Genjutsu. So if somekind of subconscious can be sealed away and act like a secondary source (like the fourth's seal in Naruto) there's a possibility it can counter a Genjutsu, much like the Kyuubi's chakra would.

As for the Kyuubi, it will also react when needed but that's only when Naruto's life is in serious danger. And again, Naruto will be under influence not the Kyuubi. A Sharingan user would have to place another Genjutsu, especially for the Kyuubi and I don't think that's possible if Naruto hasn't requested it's help and it's sealed away.

Edit: DarthEnder beat me to it.

I'm STILL dying to know what Itachi implanted in Naruto that one time. It would be awesome if it just, like, broke Sasuke's Tsukiyomi when he tried to use it on Naruto.

Knowing Shounen anime though, it'll be a spirit projection like the kind the 4th left inside Naruto that will come out at the climactic moment and say something profound that will get Sasuke to see the error of his ways.

Ah yeah, I totally forgot about that.

I know. I'm responding to KEyes suggestion that Naruto can call out KB's chakra even if KB itself was under control (or something like that, I think?).

No, it's not what I meant. I'm suggesting that if Naruto would let it, that nasty surge of Kyuubi chakra would help as Naruto is under Genjutsu, not the Kyuubi. Communication with the outside would be unlikely, yes, but the Kyuubi is sealed inside him. And the Kyuubi also under Genjutsu while inside Naruto is an assumption that has yet to be proven.

Regular genjutsu, sure. But Sasuke and Madara both know about Naruto's Kyuubei, and they both have the Sharingan. I'm proposing the possibility that they can cast something at the same time that would screw up both Naruto and the KB.

If that would be possible then Naruto would have te create a counter measure that's not of Madara's and Sasuke's knowledge, like the example mentioned above.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't think that's possible if Naruto hasn't requested it's help and it's sealed away.

Hmm. I've never thought that the seal would act as some sort of barrier between the Sharingan and the Nine Tails. I can't say whether or not I agree with it, but it's an interesting idea.

[Killa-Eyez]

Hmm. I've never thought that the seal would act as some sort of barrier between the Sharingan and the Nine Tails. I can't say whether or not I agree with it, but it's an interesting idea.

I think that if it would be possible, it'd be extremely difficult to do. But we can't say anything for sure.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Hmm. I've never thought that the seal would act as some sort of barrier between the Sharingan and the Nine Tails. I can't say whether or not I agree with it, but it's an interesting idea.

It was my idea. can we all make sure thats noted? No one ever listens to me on here.... just trying to make sure the one time you actually do it isn't mistaken for someone else.

[Killa-Eyez]

The idea is yours. I was just saying it wasn't confirmed as possible.