Naruto Shippuuden Episode 205 [Canon]

[DarthEnderX]

By eventual freedom I mean NOT being combined into the 10-Tails

Ah, now that's a good point. We might not know what Kyuubi wants, but the thing he probably DOESN'T want the most is being melted back down into the Tentails.

That's at least some leverage for Naruto to negotiate with it.

"Yeah, I need some chakra or else your going to end up back inside your demon space dad's testicles."

[SilentSnake]

In what way has Kyuubi ever been an antagonist in this series?

Yeah, he's a big evil demon in the past, but he's not the villain of any of the story arcs of the series. In what way would Naruto and Kyuubi developing a working relationship "ruin the series" when Kyuubi hasn't even DONE anything yet.

Focus on the "gets friends with Naruto" part.

Well, First shots we get in Naruto is the story behind the Kyuubi attack on the village and the mighty 4th hokage defending the village from Kyuubi. I understand that the "real" story behind all this is more complicated, but Naruto befriending Kyuubi would indeed ruin the series for me, because all this time I was led to believe it's 1 thing most evil in this whole Naruto world only to find it get a change of heart.

Don't get me wrong, seeing Kyuubi and Naruto cooperating would be nice, but after Itachi's reveal Kyuubi going "good" would be too much.

It's not even like the Kyuubi's personality takes over when Naruto looses control. Naruto just goes berserk.

You state that like a fact while it's your own assumption. Elaborate if you care enough, but Naruto goes "berserk" for a reason, don't you think?

Ah, now that's a good point. We might not know what Kyuubi wants, but the thing he probably DOESN'T want the most is being melted back down into the Tentails.

That's at least some leverage for Naruto to negotiate with it.

"Yeah, I need some chakra or else your going to end up back inside your demon space dad's testicles."

that'd work

[anime nomad]

... I was led to believe it's 1 thing most evil in this whole Naruto world ...

Evil is forcing a creature into eternal servitude by sealing him into hosts aka the Jincuriki. I'm with darth on this one, for all we know, all the tailed beasts really want is a chance to show the world that they can dance like ballerinas.

You state that like a fact while it's your own assumption. Elaborate if you care enough, but Naruto goes "berserk" for a reason, don't you think?

yea, I'd go mental too if i'd been locked up inside a succession of kids for generations.

all i'm saying is that actually we know so little about what really drives the tailed beasts, perhaps they may even WANT to get reunited into the 10 tails ?!?!

[DarthEnderX]

You state that like a fact while it's your own assumption. Elaborate if you care enough, but Naruto goes "berserk" for a reason, don't you think?

I think the evidence bears it out.

After all, we've had more than enough scenes between Shukaku, Eighttails and Kyuubi to show us that the beasts are fully capable of thinking and communicating through speach.

And when Shukaku takes over Gaara, it's fairly obvious that the Shukaku is a creature with it's own personality and motivation. Shukaku actually speaks when he's in control.

But when Naruto loses control it's just "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWRRRR!!!!!!"

Even when fighting Pain when the seal supposedly broke completely, it still didn't seem like Kyuubi had gained control. It just seemed like mindless rage. And while Kyuubi is certainly pretty enraged all the time, he's not mindless.

I think if Kyuubi were really in control during Naruto's rampaging, he might have some things to say, much like he had things to say to Sasuke when he entered Naruto's mind.

[Buffalobiian]

There's a difference between Naruto and Gaara's sealing though.

Gaara's was perfectly intact. Shukaku emerges when Gaara falls asleep, and will disappear again when he wakes up.

The Kyuubi can never really take over Naruto with the full seal intact. It's because the seal's slowly breaking that it can seep through (and from what is implied, it will keep seeping through automatically once 4th tail is reached). A full takeover will mean no turning back in Naruto's case.

But as you have said, why doesn't it show some form of personality prior? Who knows.. maybe they actually can't until a full takeover happens.

[SilentSnake]

After all, we've had more than enough scenes between Shukaku, Eighttails and Kyuubi to show us that the beasts are fully capable of thinking and communicating through speach.

And when Shukaku takes over Gaara, it's fairly obvious that the Shukaku is a creature with it's own personality and motivation. Shukaku actually speaks when he's in control.

But when Naruto loses control it's just "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWRRRR!!!!!!"

Even when fighting Pain when the seal supposedly broke completely, it still didn't seem like Kyuubi had gained control. It just seemed like mindless rage. And while Kyuubi is certainly pretty enraged all the time, he's not mindless.

I think if Kyuubi were really in control during Naruto's rampaging, he might have some things to say, much like he had things to say to Sasuke when he entered Naruto's mind.

We don't know what would Kyuubi do, but Shukaku still went on a rampage, but just talking along the way

Still, Kyuubi's/Shukaku's chakra/personality influence Jinchuurikis in a way that they go wacko the moment they are partially transformed, as seen in both Gaara's (fights with Sasuke) and Naruto's (many times) cases.

I don't really know what we argue about anymore, it seems kind of obvious that tailed beasts got minds of their own, but it still doesn't change the fact that they're evil and given any kind of freedom, they wrought havoc.

There's many "maybes" here, you write about Pain fight but you forget that 4th stopped Naruto's hand so the seal never really broke completely, but at the same time we're inclined to believe that since Yamato's hand showed 9 tails + what looked all Kyuubi broke free from Pain's prison. On the other hand he didn't really have any chance to speak because of all the things that happened inside Naruto at the time.

Kyuubi is not a mindless beast and would probably have his own agenda after freeing himself, but that still doesn't change the fact he's a monster.

This discussion goes a bit off, so let's just focus on what we actually disagreed upon:

Will Naruto get friends with Kyuubi 8tails style? Doubtful.

Can they have some shady cooperation? Yep.

[DarthEnderX]

But as you have said, why doesn't it show some form of personality prior? Who knows.. maybe they actually can't until a full takeover happens.

That's the point I was trying to make. That because Naruto's seal doesn't allow Kyuubi's personality to come out, we don't really know what Kyuubi is like when he's free. That the only time in the series we've seen him free, he was under Madara's control.

but it still doesn't change the fact that they're evil and given any kind of freedom, they wrought havoc.

Really? What kind of havoc was the Threetails causing before Akatsuki captured it? Even in the manga it just seemed to be chilling out in a lake.

I don't really know what we argue about anymore

I dunno, but I'm actually enjoying being able to have a discussion about something. There's so little of it these days since the majority of the people on the board are manga readers now.

[SilentSnake]

Really? What kind of havoc was the Threetails causing before Akatsuki captured it? Even in the manga it just seemed to be chilling out in a lake.

We saw only a glimpse of the fight and again, saying that it was chilling out in a lake is your own assumption treated like a foolproof fact. We don't know much about it, bad example of proving anything in general.

I dunno, but I'm actually enjoying being able to have a discussion about something. There's so little of it these days since the majority of the people on the board are manga readers now.

True, I'm a reader too cba watching fillers and waiting for the thing to come back canon every now and then.

[DarthEnderX]

saying that it was chilling out in a lake is your own assumption treated like a foolproof fact.

No actually, it really isn't. Hence my use of the word "seemed".