Naruto Shippuuden Episode 203 [Canon]

[DayoftheDante]

Sasuke's matched or exceeded every ability Itachi had. He's gonna pull out that sword and shield too, no reason to think Itachi didn't pass those on with his other powers. I'm liking his new development, he's always been the angsty one but usually went nonlethal. He seems to be cutting people down in earnest now. I guess it's unlikely he'll mow down some named characters since they just got properly introduced, but hey why not--he's gonna be on trial for war crimes anyway for attacking the summit, why fuck around now? At any rate he's gonna tax the hell out of his eyes in the upcoming fights, and Madara will probably offer him Itachi's eyes before he sics him on Naruto for their final round.

The byakugan thing threw me off too, we were told sharingan was the evolution of byakugan but that's obviously backwards if the two original lines were Sharingan and Mokuton users.

If Naruto is a Senju descendant, we'll need more backstory on his parents to explain the link, and that's a win-win whichever side he gets it from.

[DarthEnderX]

I think it was during the Chuunin exams after the forest part that they had to battle between each other. When Neji and Hinata were battling, I think Lee or Kakashi mentioned that the sharingan was an evolution of the byakugan, but not necessarilly stronger. But I don't think they ever said it was 100% accurate. It was probably an old wives tale.

Well, considering Kakashi thinks the Sage of the Six Paths is a myth too, and since we know from Jiraiya that he's not, it gives the impression that Kakashi isn't very well informed about ninja history.

It makes sense from a political standpoint as well. If the Hyuuga are powerful nobles in the village while the Uchiha are borderline outcasts, it would make sense for them to spread around the story that the Sharingan is just a mutation in the Byakugan.

If Naruto is a Senju descendant, we'll need more backstory on his parents to explain the link, and that's a win-win whichever side he gets it from.

I don't think Madara was implying that Naruto was a descendant of the Senju.

It's not the blood that Naruto has inhierited from the First, it's a Hokage's Will of Fire. The confrontation between Naruto and Sasuke he's hoping for isn't one of Senju vs. Uchiha, it's one of Hokage vs. Uchiha.

[Kraco]

Sasuke's matched or exceeded every ability Itachi had.

Personally I think Sasuke still has a long way to go to reach Itachi's level of genjutsu.

[ASSpirine]

Personally I think Sasuke still has a long way to go to reach Itachi's level of genjutsu.

Sasuke just got his genjutsu as a present. He hasn't mastered it to have his own mangekyou

[kmkze04]

Somehow I get the feeling Naruto and Sasuke will face off, Naruto will lose again on purpose this time with some seemingly-final message to Sasuke that brings him back. Then Naruto will miraculously survive and he and Sasuke will face off with Madara.

[ASSpirine]

Somehow I get the feeling Naruto and Sasuke will face off, Naruto will lose again on purpose this time with some seemingly-final message to Sasuke that brings him back. Then Naruto will miraculously survive and he and Sasuke will face off with Madara.

Hope not, he deserves to go on trial for war crimes.
But somehow I believe Tsunade/Narutos' emo speech will convince the trial in the end to let Sasuke repay his debt to society in some sort of douchy way...

[DarthEnderX]

Somehow I get the feeling Naruto and Sasuke will face off, Naruto will lose again on purpose this time with some seemingly-final message to Sasuke that brings him back. Then Naruto will miraculously survive and he and Sasuke will face off with Madara.

Personally, I don't think Madara is intended to be the big bad for this series frankly.

I think at some point Madara is going to be killed off, and Sasuke is going to take his place as the main villain and the last battle in this series is going to be Hokage Naruto vs. Sasuke.

[Kraco]

Konoha administration is full of idiots, though, to alienate the Uchiha clan for generations. Clearly it's one of the best bloodline limits. If they had any wits left, they would strive to get Sasuke back, no matter his crimes, and have him breed with a bunch of ladies.

[Buffalobiian]

Konoha administration is full of idiots, though, to alienate the Uchiha clan for generations. Clearly it's one of the best bloodline limits. If they had any wits left, they would strive to get Sasuke back, no matter his crimes, and have him breed with a bunch of ladies.

And they would, certainly, not be short on volunteers.

[DarthEnderX]

Konoha administration is full of idiots, though, to alienate the Uchiha clan for generations. Clearly it's one of the best bloodline limits. If they had any wits left, they would strive to get Sasuke back, no matter his crimes, and have him breed with a bunch of ladies.

That's kinda what they had going on before, and it just ended up with the Uchiha being big and powerful and traitorous.

I think all things considered everyone would just rather be rid of the Uchiha once and for all.

[DarthEnderX]

P.S. Did anyone else notice that Kankuro's new puppet looks like Sasori?

[anime nomad]

alot of people in this thread are taking for granted that Sasuke has inherited Itachi's sharingan (because Itachi's blood went into sasuke's eyes). I think thats a misconception. Sasuke has merely unlocked his own mangekyo sharingan. Sasuke has more control over the Amaterasu then Itachi had (he is able control the flames) while Itachi had much more control over Tsukuyomi (the genjitsu), Sasukes Susano summon as well is not as developed as Itachi's (only bones at this time - while Itachi could make it fully fleshed and arm it with those spirit weapons that he collected)
I would hope that when/if sasuke replaces his eyes with Itachis, then he will truly "inherit" his brothers abilities.

[DarthEnderX]

Seems to me like he has both Itachi's powers and his own.

I say that because we saw him use both the Tsukiyomi ability, and the ability to manipulate Black Flames from the same eye.

It certainly would have made more SENSE for Amaterasu to have only been a one time thing until Sasuke implants Itachi's eyes, but that seems out the window already as Sasuke has already displayed four separate Mangkyou powers.

Presumably, if he's using Itachi's Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu, Kishi has left himself open to give Sasuke yet another power in his Amaterasu eye that's Sasuke's real power for that eye.

[Buffalobiian]

alot of people in this thread are taking for granted that Sasuke has inherited Itachi's sharingan (because Itachi's blood went into sasuke's eyes). I think thats a misconception. Sasuke has merely unlocked his own mangekyo sharingan. Sasuke has more control over the Amaterasu then Itachi had (he is able control the flames) while Itachi had much more control over Tsukuyomi (the genjitsu), Sasukes Susano summon as well is not as developed as Itachi's (only bones at this time - while Itachi could make it fully fleshed and arm it with those spirit weapons that he collected)
I would hope that when/if sasuke replaces his eyes with Itachis, then he will truly "inherit" his brothers abilities.

One thing to consider is that if Itachi has "given" Sasuke his powers, does Itachi's eyes still have any power in them?

[anime nomad]

Seems to me like he has both Itachi's powers and his own.

I say that because we saw him use both the Tsukiyomi ability, and the ability to manipulate Black Flames from the same eye.

It certainly would have made more SENSE for Amaterasu to have only been a one time thing until Sasuke implants Itachi's eyes, but that seems out the window already as Sasuke has already displayed four separate Mangkyou powers.

Presumably, if he's using Itachi's Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu, Kishi has left himself open to give Sasuke yet another power in his Amaterasu eye that's Sasuke's real power for that eye.

I think there is a 4th mangekyo power! opening inter-dimensional gateways.
Kakasi seems to have learned how to use it, and madara is a master at using it. I think its tied to the same eye as Tsukiyomi, and it may even be the way that sasuke is controlling the flames (by pulling them into another dimension).

[DarthEnderX]

I just assumed that every Mangekyou Sharingan got a different power in each eye.

One thing to consider is that if Itachi has "given" Sasuke his powers, does Itachi's eyes still have any power in them?

Well, for Sasuke's sake, he'd better hope that at the very least they still have the power to keep him from going blind.

[anime nomad]

I just assumed that every Mangekyou Sharingan got a different power in each eye..

Damn. never even considered that.
I made the opposite assumption: every Mangekyo is the same.

[DarthEnderX]

Well, Kakashi's Mangekou power is completely different from Itachi or Sasuke's.

Also, Madara has an Eternal Magekyou and, it seems as though he doesn't have Amaterasu. Hence my assumption that they are all different.(Although, it COULD just be because he doesn't have the other eye his Amaterasu would be in, he has kept his other eye covered the entire series so far, it could just be gone).

Sasuke and Itachi both have Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu, but, as has been stated, Itachi seems to have transferred his powers to Sasuke.

So presumably, Sasuke can also get two powers of his own. The first seems to be Black Flame manipulation, the other, he doesn't seem to have discovered yet.

Also, unlocking both eyes seems to give every Magekyou user a Susano'o. But Sasuke's is different from Ichachi's. Again, I'm assuming that every Magekyou user has a unique appearance to their Susano'o.

[Buffalobiian]

Until recently, I've always considered the Mangekyou Sharingan powers to be connected to another dimension in some way:

1) Tsukiyomi: sending both parties to a dimension that's under the caster's control. Time flow is 72hrs : 1 second. (this one's a bit iffy, but Tsukiyomi isn't even "normal" genjutsu anyway - if even.

2) Amaterasu: summons "other-worldly" flames into this dimension

3) Kakashi's : Opens a one-way portal to another dimension

4) Susano'o: Summon a being from another dimension

5) Madara's: Summon yourself in and out of another dimension to travel.

Note that these "dimensions" aren't necessarily one and the same. The world of Tsukiyomi isn't (necessarily) the world where Amaterasu flames originate from, nor where Kakashi sends his enemies.


And regarding Sasuke, Itachi's transferred powers may be additive on top of his own. But what I think is more likely is that Sasuke doesn't have the Tsukiyomi. That guy certainly didn't look like he was walking around for 72hrs, nor did he collapse utterly and completely. Only his body was frozen, and he recovered within...half an hour?

That, or it's a piss weak "Sasuke ver" of Itachi's moves, just like his Amaterasu.

[Kraco]

It never even occurred to me the genjutsu Sasuke used against the dude could have been Tsukiyomi. It was just normal sharingan powered genjutsu in my opinion. Itachi used it all the time and, I reckon, it was the main reason his opponents feared him. He easily defeated Orochimaru and Deidara The Armless Ninja with it, if memory serves.