FUNimation Files Lawsuit Against 1,337 Illegal Uploaders of One Piece

[David75]

Fansubing is not legal, and that is the case in many countries. At least, the raw distribution is, since it's a copy of source material.
I do not exactly know wether the fansub text itself is illegal, depends on the country. But even there, I guess there's the fact your work is a copy of a protected one.

That aside, without fansubing, there's almost no way the industry would have grown outside japan. It's not a multi-billion market... yet, but many people have been earning money thanks to 2 things:
The legal ways, starting probably in the late 70's with anime broadcast, that ignited the movement.
The illegal ways, that promoted shows and manga, in all its kinds, throughout the world, without censorship or marketing targets.
And thanks to that openness, some shows or manga you'd never even have dreamt of became available and enabled legal ways to flourish for those shows or others.

So yes, it's still illegal, but nothing is all black or all white. Funimation is able to sue people only because OP became popular for many reasons, and partly thanks to fansubing.
Hammering people that would never even think of buying OP in the first place, might have a dire effects on sales later. Never underestimate backfiring, the internet is a small world.

[Kraco]

So yes, it's still illegal, but nothing is all black or all white. Funimation is able to sue people only because OP became popular for many reasons, and partly thanks to fansubing.
Hammering people that would never even think of buying OP in the first place, might have a dire effects on sales later. Never underestimate backfiring, the internet is a small world.

Who knows, this whole thing might not have happened without the Fractale fiasco. Forgetting the American license holders, the Japanese copyright holders are an altogether different matter and nigh impossible to predict. Maybe with the exception of Ghibli (and some others I can't name) they seem to have a pretty schizophrenic attitude towards the foreign market: Wanting extra money yet being all paranoid at the same time. Any business wants extra money, but it's pretty hard to form a lasting relationship if you accept the money with the right hand yet at the same time stab with the left hand...

[Buffalobiian]

And thanks to that openness, some shows or manga you'd never even have dreamt of became available and enabled legal ways to flourish for those shows or others.

So yes, it's still illegal, but nothing is all black or all white. Funimation is able to sue people only because OP became popular for many reasons, and partly thanks to fansubing.

While it's true that anime popularity owes itself a lot to fansubbing, I don't see that they could, or even should, embrace it when services like simulcasts are in place.

From what I see, Funi doesn't touch people outside of its copyright jurisdictions (Finland, for example), or shows that it has no licence over (said "unpopular" shows that would never be licensed or be made legally available to non-Japanese).

Hammering people that would never even think of buying OP in the first place, might have a dire effects on sales later. Never underestimate backfiring, the internet is a small world.

Whether or not this case will hurt sales is up to Funi's forecasting I guess - but that matters little in terms of the righteousness of what's happening to me.

It seems strange for that to happen though, if those who were sued would never buy OP in the first place, while those who buy OP want to support the industry in the first place. The only backfiring I can think of is for those who normally watch the subs and buy OP got sued and are angry. Then again, they'd be watching the simulcast, wouldn't they?

[humpburger]

Lol, the timing is so funny. 1337 pirates couldn't make it pass Marine Ford with their piracy.

So what actually happens if you hit the random anomaly of prosecution?

That aside, without fansubing, there's almost no way the industry would have grown outside japan. It's not a multi-billion market... yet...

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[Marik]

Hrmm.. Funny if true.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/....php?p=1081857

[Sapphire]

Oh yes, it's true. The font/style is too exact to be a coincidence.

America's Greatest Otaku episode 02 is on both Nyaa and Hulu for those who are curious.

Horrible Subs 03

[Buffalobiian]

Are the latter episodes much different from the first? I watched the first episode for kicks (the name demands it), but after sitting through them showcasing various otakus, their rooms and their hobbies/habits, i decided that one episode was enough. Some good moments in there, but sandwiched in too much uninteresting content to make me watch the whole series.

[RyougaZell]

Hrmm.. Funny if true.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/....php?p=1081857

Hahahaha. That is gold.

[Marik]

Hahahaha. That is gold.

Indeed. Now we know why they went after yibis and not HS. They use HS rips themselves.

[RyougaZell]

Indeed. Now we know why they went after yibis and not HS. They use HS rips themselves.

I'm reading the thread this moment. And I love how the ANN users who 'hate fansubs' are practically yelling 'so what'? I don't know if the guy/gal is a moderator or not... but Im laughing my ass off reading how they try to justify Funimation doing this. I've always said ANN and Funi are hyprocrites. Oh well. I'll continue reading the thread. It certainly made me smile this morning.

[Assertn]

I'm reading the thread this moment. And I love how the ANN users who 'hate fansubs' are practically yelling 'so what'? I don't know if the guy/gal is a moderator or not... but Im laughing my ass off reading how they try to justify Funimation doing this. I've always said ANN and Funi are hyprocrites. Oh well. I'll continue reading the thread. It certainly made me smile this morning.

Horrible subs does all the ripping for free, and Funimation takes advantage of it. Horrible has no rights -- Funi does. Sounds like Funimation is just being a smart business.

[RyougaZell]

Horrible subs does all the ripping for free, and Funimation takes advantage of it. Horrible has no rights -- Funi does. Sounds like Funimation is just being a smart business.

Nobody defended Horrible Subs rights. HS steals from CrunchyRoll, so the screwed ones are CR. Now, one would argue that the subs that CR uses are owned by Funimation due to the licensing and such... but... why use the HS in Funi's studio?

In their right? Maybe. Smart business? Maybe. Bad PR? Absolutely. To get the fansub, Funimation must have used one of two options. Bittorrent or Direct Download (ok, mIRC is a third, but lets leave it out). By using Bittorrent they are basically uploading the video themselves... and Funimation sues anyone downloading fansubs...hmmm.

Ah whatever. I'll just laugh at this.

[Sapphire]

So they're using/distributing a free product and suing everyone else who does the same thing. Good company.

[darkshadow]

lol free product?

[Sapphire]

I said free, not legal.

The justification of the illegality of HS is debatable, anyway.

PS - It was brought up that if Funi DLs HS' episode, they are also illegally downloading a font that they don't have a license for. I guess they don't have a "right" to download HS' ep after all.

[darkshadow]

Lol free, not legal...that's as good as an argument as stealing something and then saying:"No I didn't steal it, I took it for free".......
It's not a free product even if procured and distributed as such by a non-license holder.

And as far as my understanding of copyright goes, which is clearly different by country so correct me if I'm wrong, the license holder owns every single thing anyone creates with their IP if no license to do so had been given (parodies aside). This would include the fonts.

[RyougaZell]

It isn't free in any way. And its illegal as well. And Funimation is using/downloading an illegal video to help their legal contract (free translation? awesome!)

Someone at ANN (I love those guys... I really do. They are naive) said it was alright because Funi stole something from a thief. Lets just steal from Funi now, since they are stealing from someone that stole is legal! LOL.

[Kraco]

And as far as my understanding of copyright goes, which is clearly different by country so correct me if I'm wrong, the license holder owns every single thing anyone creates with their IP if no license to do so had been given (parodies aside). This would include the fonts.

I very much doubt that's correct even for your country. Clearly it's not legal to use someone else's copyrighted work for derivations, but it doesn't grant the original copyright holder a right to your (illegal) works either. You will simply be forbidden to use your unlicensed creations for anything (depending on the local laws, for example considering the parodies you mentioned). However, it's evident that the original copyright holder is in a good position to exploit an illegal creator's work with practical impunity, as a pirate is unlikely to try to sue anybody...

Take for example doujinshi using existing manga/anime works. They are mostly unlicensed derivations of original works but the Japanese companies have largely ignored them for their own reasons. However, if some media house suddenly decided to enter the porn market, they by no means could just collect all the related doujin by myriad artists and publish volumes under their own name.

[TwisT]

But does the font belong to anyone? I have no idea how these things work but don't you have to file for license/copyright/patents and shit for others to not be able to copy/use your things? If not why do you even have to file for things like that in the first place? And if it's like that, i doubt the fansubbers have filed for such things. The word copyright would imply that you can't copy that persons work without his permission, but if there is no copyright then you can copy away as you please. Maybe someone with more knowledge in the subject could enlighten me on this.

[Kraco]

But does the font belong to anyone? I have no idea how these things work but don't you have to file for license/copyright/patents and shit for others to not be able to copy/use your things? If not why do you even have to file for things like that in the first place? And if it's like that, i doubt the fansubbers have filed for such things. The word copyright would imply that you can't copy that persons work without his permission, but if there is no copyright then you can copy away as you please. Maybe someone with more knowledge in the subject could enlighten me on this.

Concerning creative works, copyright automatically belongs to the original author or, if you work for somebody contractually, to the employer. It's a different matter if you need to prove you were the original author. Often it's undisputable but sometimes people take extra steps like dated and verified original copies. No copyright means the original copyright holder has void their claim, the copyright has expired (takes decades), there wasn't an author in the first place (like a rock shaped by rain and wind into a sculpture), or a court rules the piece is no product of creative work at all.

It's a bit ambiguous, but patenting, for example, is expensive and time consuming and thus requiring a similar process for simple copyrighting would mean basically only rich people or corporations could own any creative work and could steal at will the products of normal inviduals.