Puella Magi Madoka Magica

[Kraco]

Yeah you show her Sayaka, I hope you beat the crap out of Homura.

I doubt very much she either could or the story would go down that path. Sayaka is most likely a very average magical girl, while Madoka has the potential to be big.

Anyway, I don't see why Ryll is so bent on calling all the wishes very selfish. Because both Mami and Homura empasized it would be so? No matter what you say, Sayaka healing the dude's hand is not selfish. Mami telling her it would be was just basic psychology to make Sayaka think twice or thrice before making a contract. "He will certainly be grateful if I get the hand healed - Oh, no! That's an evil thought!" is the most ridiculous thing you could come up with. Which one is a bigger deal: The guy getting his dreams back or owing thanks to the girl (not that he would even know who did it)? And what is evil in trying to win the guy she obviously loves by helping him? Following that logic bringing flowers or chocolate to the girl you like is also evil and self-centered...

Bah. We haven't seen many wishes yet but until we see something genuinely wicked, it's much too early to call anything selfish.

[shinta|hikari]

It's not mere gratitude she wants. She wants him to be thankful enough to love her. That is what makes her feel conflicted, since it seems like she is taking advantage of his weakness to get his heart.

I do agree that this is a very weak form of selfishness. This can only be considered a truly selfish act if practically everything people do is classified as selfish as well.

[KitKat]

Which one is a bigger deal: The guy getting his dreams back or owing thanks to the girl (not that he would even know who did it)? And what is evil in trying to win the guy she obviously loves by helping him? Following that logic bringing flowers or chocolate to the girl you like is also evil and self-centered...

Bah. We haven't seen many wishes yet but until we see something genuinely wicked, it's much too early to call anything selfish.

I can see where you're coming from, but the boy has a huge problem of pride. It's that pride which will (I believe) ultimately taint his relationship with Sayaka, because now he owes her. Everything that he ever does after this, he will owe her for it. For someone who is already so proud, if he finds out that Sayaka is the source of his miracle, I think it will cause him to resent her, which will in turn cause her to become bitter because she will have lost the thing she wanted most out of this wish - her relationship with him. I imagine somewhat of a similar situation happened in Homura's case, though probably of a more drastic scale. She likely wished for something incredibly selfless out of the pure kindness of her heart (at least, based upon her comments to Madoka), but it didn't at all turn out how she hoped, and in the end all she got was fear and resentment, possibly even leading to the demise of her family in some way.

I don't think it's evil or selfish of her to wish that, but I do think that Homura's prophecy of doom is about more than just girls being defeated by witches, and we could end up watching Sayaka's entire life crumble in future episodes.

I don't think there was too much spent focusing on Madoka's grief. When you watch a lot of anime, it's easy to forget how raw the experience of encountering death is for the first time, especially within one's peer group. Grief is tough, and I'm glad they didn't just gloss over it as if seeing your friends die is a normal experience for kids.

Sayaka, being more impulsive, is more easily manipulated by Kyubey. That creature just gets more evil with every episode. I love how they don't have to make it look evil or ugly or use any cinematic devices to shout 'Evil!' at the audience. It's this subtle creepiness hidden under a cute exterior, and all the more effective because it isn't blatant at all.

I kinda thought that when Madoka was caught by the witch that she'd somehow manifest her innate magical potential without the interference of Kyubey. But, it keeps it more interesting with her just a regular girl for now.

Great show, great characters. Can't wait for next ep.

[Ryllharu]

Anyway, I don't see why Ryll is so bent on calling all the wishes very selfish. Because both Mami and Homura empasized it would be so? No matter what you say, Sayaka healing the dude's hand is not selfish. Mami telling her it would be was just basic psychology to make Sayaka think twice or thrice before making a contract. "He will certainly be grateful if I get the hand healed - Oh, no! That's an evil thought!" is the most ridiculous thing you could come up with. Which one is a bigger deal: The guy getting his dreams back or owing thanks to the girl (not that he would even know who did it)? And what is evil in trying to win the guy she obviously loves by helping him? Following that logic bringing flowers or chocolate to the girl you like is also evil and self-centered...

KitKat has probably hit the balanced viewpoint (and certainly put it better than I'm about to), but I've been seeing it in a different light, so I'm going to roll with it. You're more than free to see it differently, but this is my interpretation.

It isn't the act of healing his hands, it is why she is doing it. If she was doing it because she liked his music, that would be one thing, if it was because she wanted him to be happy again, that would be different too. But Sayaka wants him to be the subject of her wish because she wants him to accept all the support she's given him. She's saddened by what he's become, a shell of the boy she admires so much, and at that very moment, he threw all her affection and care back in her face.

She goes to visit him and spends hours with him, brings him CDs of the music she liked and assumed he still liked, never understanding how much she was hurting him. She fed him hope (that he knew would never be). Sayaka was blinded by how much she cared for him and how much she admired him. When he turned around and threw it back at her, she got desperate. Suddenly everything she thought she was working for was falling apart. At that moment, he harbored no gratitude like had been hoping for, just resentment.

He likely would have got over that outburst if she apologized and just sat silently by his side until he was ready to open up again. He is stubborn, but I think if she reviewed it she would have seen what she had been doing but could have stood by him despite his rejection. She went for the quick fix. In her panic, she offered to cure him.

edit: It wasn't a wish of how she can help him (as it was when she first asked about using her wish for others), it was a wish of how can she make him love her now that he said he hates her. The timing of her wish twisted its originally pure intentions.

[Buffalobiian]

Just watched all four episodes after hearing all the hype. Man, Homura is so self-centred. I can't believe she just stood there and watched all those people attempt suicide. I guess now that Madoka has given up contracting, whether Madoka succumbs inside the witch field is of no concern to her. LOL she looked so pissed when Sayaka made it out, bet she totally underestimated Sayaka. Yeah you show her Sayaka, I hope you beat the crap out of Homura.

Was there anything to suggest she was watching the whole thing the entire time? I was under the impression that Sayaka got there before her. Homura's pissed that Sayaka became a Majou Shoujo, if anything, after all her warnings - not so much at her survival.

edit: missed a whole page of posts. My thoughts are in line with Ryll's on the whole wish/intent thing.

[Kraco]

I can certainly understand that reasoning, Ryll and KitKat, but I'm looking at it from the other end: Healing the hand of a musician prodigy losing all hope is not selfish. If you begin to dig for underlying motives, then it may become muddy, just like everything else would, like Shinta said. If Sayaka's wish had been: Make him fall in love with me, then I'd have readily agreed on it being purely selfish. But she healed his hand. Whether it indeed only ends up poisoning what's left of their relationship and even ruin the guy's personality beyond recognition, is another matter.

I will always place less emphasis on what's going on inside people's heads and what they actually do. Even if all you try to do is to gauge is whether their acts are selfish.

Although at this point I suppose it's good to note that being selfish might not equal to being evil... But there's nothing to discuss without that condition.

[Archangel]

I think all of you are digging too deep. If you follow that line of reasoning all the way down you'll just end up concluding that there is no truly good person in the world since their actions are all driven as to make themselves feel good for what they've done instead of acting for the sole sake of the other person.

In the end she ended up sacrificing her future for the sake of her friend/love interest, i don't see how anyone can consider such a thing to be selfish on her part.

[RyougaZell]

I think the boy will never even know... I think the last push Madoka will need to become a Puella Magi will be Sayaka's death at the hands of the new Puella Magi. Yes... I think Sayaka is dying soon.

[miyama_ryu]

Was there anything to suggest she was watching the whole thing the entire time?

Well from what the show has shown me so far, Homura hasn't lifted a hand against witches nor their minions, or ever tried to help anyone except to prevent Madoka from making a contract. We either see her hiding in the shadows watching Mami or trailing her on a witch hunt. Heck in the first episode, she was just standing around while those cotton ball men were closing in on Madoka and Sayaka, don't tell me with her blink ability she couldn't keep up with Madoka! Mami obviously knew Homura could not be trusted from her previous experience and tied her up before the episode three boss fight.

Consider this, Horuma actually said so herself, that she has seen more magical girls die than she could count or remember. Now thats strange, didn't episode four say MGs are territorial? So most of the time there can be only one MG in an area at a time, considering Homura's age, she could not have seen more magical girls die than she can remember unless she actively travels around to stalk MGs or they drop on a weekly basis, even then QB will have to take time to recruit. Even if I assume that QB has mad recruiting skillz, if Horuma was a nice person like Mami, shouldn't she also take them under her wings like Mami? Considering how strong Horuma is, there is no way she will let so many MGs die if she actually cared.

Lastly notice that it was only Madoka, Horuma tried to talk out of becoming a MG. Did she even bother with Sayaka? Obviously she thought the same as you did Buffalobiian, "Sayaka is only an average Magic Girl, not a threat, she will probably die in her first battle". All this leads me to agree with QB, Mami was special most MGs are calculative of their gains and losses like Homura. She will actively try to reduce the competition and go for easy kills, which is probably why she trails MGs hoping to catch a witch (or MG?) in a weakened state after a battle.

[shinta|hikari]

You really think that Homura is that evil? Clearly you don't watch a lot of anime.

This show has been surprising, but I don't think they will go that far.

Homura tried to save Mami and the others. She could have beaten the witch with her skill (whatever it is, I doubt it is blinking), but Mami tied her up.

Also, Homura said that she has seen enough people (not just MGs) die to make her give up on counting. That doesn't mean it is a literally huge number. It is probably just an expression, or much less likely MGs or Homura herself is immortal.

I also think it's pretty obvious that Homura knows Madoka even before they "met" in the first episode, so Madoka being treated as special compared to Sayaka (or anyone else for that matter) is only natural. Madoka even saw Homura in a dream, so maybe Homura had a premonition just like her, and is acting in order to avoid that sad future.

[Kraco]

For now I'd be careful about labeling Homura as villainous. Like Shinta said, she probably stopped counting very early, which would also suggest she's not so evil. However, she likely calculates a lot more than Mami ever did. Maybe she's not so sure of her prowess (a wise stance based on Mami's fate alone) or maybe she has other reasons, like trying to keep herself as much emotionally detached as possible to retain her sanity. Nevertheless, if she really was evil, she would take Madoka out by herself before she has even a chance to make a contract and become a potential adversary.

Of course there's also the chance Homura knows a lot more of the truth than she has ever revealed. If the truth is as wicked as Kyube, the circumstances alone might have transformed Homura into her current cold self.

[Buffalobiian]

Obviously she thought the same as you did Buffalobiian, "Sayaka is only an average Magic Girl, not a threat, she will probably die in her first battle".

Heh, I never thought that, but anyway.

This episode shows that Kyubey and his girls don't seem to count Homura in their territorial game anyway, so that "she shouldn't really meet anyone" theory doesn't quite apply.

As for helping out, she got tied up the first time we've seen her try.

[Ryllharu]

Of course there's also the chance Homura knows a lot more of the truth than she has ever revealed. If the truth is as wicked as Kyube, the circumstances alone might have transformed Homura into her current cold self.

There is certainly a reason that Homura was going after Kyubey first, before she tried to discourage Madoka and Sayaka. She knows a lot more about that thing than she is letting on. I doubt that she wants to kill it merely to prevent other girls from contracting in the area she has moved to.

The new girl was from far away, and was on rather familiar terms with Kyubey. This doesn't seem like an instance where each girl meets a different magical pet to become magical girls. They all know Kyubey.

[KitKat]

A friend has brought to my attention that Kyubey is now answering questions and contracting with unsuspecting girls via Twitter.

[Buffalobiian]

[Nipponsei] Puella Magi Madoka Magica OP Single - Connect [ClariS].zip

gg - Episode 05

[RyougaZell]

A friend has brought to my attention that Kyubey is now answering questions and contracting with unsuspecting girls via Twitter.

Fantastic. Gonna follow this.

And about ep5... damn Kyubey...

And Im starting to think Madoka will never turn into a Puella Magi

[animus]

I was kinda wincing the whole episode that at any time Sayaka was gonna be impaled knowing how it's not out of the realm of possibility for a main character to just up and die.

[Archangel]

No man, she will die when you're not expecting it.

Maybe during breakfast.

[Buffalobiian]

I love how Kyubey is not proposing the question as a matter of if, but when.

[Archangel]

Apparently the manga made that scene even nastier

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/262...gurodeath2.jpg