We`re just gonna run around in circles here, you say the prisioners are strong and i say the guards should be strong.Originally Posted by Sentenal
We`re just gonna run around in circles here, you say the prisioners are strong and i say the guards should be strong.
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
You probably missed my earlier post, but let me ask you this directly: If you were a badass fighter with strange powers, would you like to spend your days and nights (since it's so isolated) in a damp, smelly, scum filled, boring (since nothing ever happens there, except right now), dreary, and in every way unwelcoming prison guarding a bunch of hoodlums that do nothing but throw insults at you? Or would you like to seek opportunities in the vast world offering any kinds of environments, challenges, and luxuries and where strong people are always needed (and thus well paid) by many different factions you could choose from.
You must really like depressing places if you chose the prison. Fortunately Oda thinks otherwise and thus the major people among the guards are just the kind of rare weirdos that would want to spend their time there. The rest are nonconsequential grunts in the world government service who don't possess any special skills that would allow them to pick their work places better - and so I'd assume most of them are only waiting for a transfer to a nicer place.
The Guards are strong. Without Luffy/Croc/Jimbei, the 3 Demon Guards, and all the other people Impel Down has guarding it, would have put down the revolt fairly easy. Its just that they aren't strong enough to beat Luffy/Croc/Jimbei. Is that so hard to accept? The Shichibukai are one of the 3 Great Powers in One Piece. If the World Government had multiple people in Impel Down capable of being on par with the Shichibukai, then that would really cheap the importance of the Shichibukai.
Level 2 proved to be more than enough for Buggy an Mr. 3.
Level 4 proved to be more than enough for Luffy and Mr. 2.
Level 6 proved to be more than enough for Luffy, Ivankov, and inazuma.
Honestly everyone is shocked by how Luffy got this far, but once the big guns came out and the riots break out at level 2, level 4, and the main entrance simultaneously, you have to presume that its all downhill from there. Do you think any prison in the real world can contain a riot of the combined force of all its prisoners?
Edit: Plus, I still think The Great Gaol lived up to its name. It took a series of lucky breaks to get Luffy to where he is now. By all accounts, he shouldn't have even found his way past level 1, let alone survive Magellan's wrath. This is the falling-action phase of the arc, and is mostly setting up for something far greater.
Last edited by Assertn; Wed, 04-14-2010 at 12:13 PM.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
As pointed out, the security at Impel Down is realistically as good as it could get. Any other day, even this level of riot could could have been easily contained by the forces at Marinford right next door. However, the timing couldn't be worse.
I am not sure what kind of enemies some people are expecting Luffy to run into. This prison, along with Magellan and his lackeys would be enough to keep even the strongest criminals in captivity, as long as they didn't all break out at the same time.
Also, why would anyone expect Luffy to end up fighting the strongest criminals one by one. Unless Luffy freed them himself for the challenge, they should still be locked away.
We're not talking about regular guards though. We're talking about the officers.
The people who the World Government deems powerful enough to stand between the most powerful criminals on the planet and the rest of the world. Magellan seems qualified, and Shiryu probably was as well. But nobody else seems qualified.
Which, I guess, is why this is happening now. The WG put underpowered people in charge of keeping the most dangerous place in the world sealed up tight, and now all these villains are going to get free because of it.
End of the day, the staff of Impel Down wouldn't even be able to contain two Level 6 prisoners escaping simultaneously. Because Magellan would only be able to fight one while the other would end up soloing the entire rest of the facility.
Perhaps it wouldn't be as much of an issue if it WERE a refreshing change of pace. Unfortunately, the Impel Down arc directly follows the Amazon Lilly arc, where Luffy ALSO completely outclassed every threat thrown at him.
Last edited by DarthEnderX; Wed, 04-14-2010 at 11:13 PM.
I'd say the 3 Demon Guards are qualified to deal with all but the most ridiculous prisoners, which is all you should expect.The people who the World Government deems powerful enough to stand between the most powerful criminals on the planet and the rest of the world. Magellan seems qualified, and Shiryu probably was as well. But nobody else seems qualified.
Since Level 6 Prisoners include people like the Shichibukai, and people dangerous enough to have been erased from history, so... Uhhh, no shit? Do you really expect Impel Down to have enough power to rival one of the 3 Great Powers?End of the day, the staff of Impel Down wouldn't even be able to contain two Level 6 prisoners escaping simultaneously. Because Magellan would only be able to fight one while the other would end up soloing the entire rest of the facility.
Also, who is to say that Magellen couldn't take on two at the same time?
Luffy was closer to dying in this arc than ever before, because of Magellan. How can you say he's outclassed every threat? Perhaps your complain should more specifically be tailored to "Unfortunately, Luffy has yet to be weaker than, yet not so much that he doesn't stand a fighting chance against, another villain since before Amazon Lily." Although even then, the marines showed up and mopped the floor with the strawhat crew back in the Shabondy Archipelago arc.
Anyway, I don't know how it could be any more ironic for someone to honestly watch a shonen and say, "it sure would be refreshing if there was more of a convenient, tier-bracketed 1v1 battle structure in this arc."
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I can't really understand the reason behind all these complaints.
You guys honestly wants Luffy to have a hard time dealing with grunts and a few low rank jail wardens? I mean, Ace is being shipped to be executed and there's also the whole Shichibukai and Admiral preparing to fight White Beard's crew.
I'd imagine it would be easy for Oda to make these guys seem strong so he can stretch this arc out longer and make more money from it. I mean having the heroes spend a ton of time fighting unimportant grunts is the typical shounen stretch. Thankfully he's a better author than that, so we can skip through this nonsense and watch the real action.
Impel Down IS a rather formidable prison.
The most dangerous prisoners and therefore the most likely to escape is kept on the bottom floor deep below sea level. All fruit users are chained with sea stones so they are essentially useless unless they somehow manage to collaborate with other prisoners and have themselves be freed. This isn't like a standard prison where prisoners can go out of their cells and do what they want. Everyone on level 6 is kept locked up 24/7 so the chances of multiple gathering together and planning an escape is unlikely.
Magellan fruit is poison and that by it's nature just scream being able to fight multiple opponents and disable them rather easily. The levels are separated by only one entrance or exit with the wardens being in complete control of the elevator. The prison is surrounded by the calm belt and require the prisoners to commandeer a marine ship to safely escape. The Marine HQ is nearby and is able to send aid if necessary. The chances of someone gathering enough people, planing, escaping, stealing a marine ship and getting away all before the Marine HQ can be notified is extremely low.
The reason why Impel Down is so fearsome is because its very design makes it extremely difficult to escape from.
The only reason why Luffy was successful so far was because he's lucky to have been found by Inazuma. He's also happens to be the son of Dragon or the Okama wouldn't have lift a finger to help him attempt such a crazy rescue. Luffy attempt to rescue Ace is the reason why Jinbei and Crocodile went with him. It's impossible to find another person that is as connected as Luffy to where he can influences all these power people to help his cause. There's also fact that since the Marine main focus is White Beard right now and Ace execution is top priority. Magellan personally escorting Ace out while riots are breaking out is proof of this.
I honestly doubt that a large group of criminals from level 6 might be half as successful as Luffy so far.
I don't know why Jinbei was rotting in the prison but I'm pretty sure Crocodile is exceedingly happy to simply have a chance to escape. Beats sitting there chained to the wall, subjected to random torture, powerlessly waiting for his execution million to one, even if they failed. Furthermore, I have no doubt he plans to betray Luffy if any chance whatsoever appears that wouldn't endanger his own escape.
No extra motives to "help Luffy" needed.
I would agree, but if you look back at the manga cover pages for miss golden week mini-story. Crocodile had the chance to escape before they even reached Impel Down, but he declined and chose to stay in prison. I would say that he was bored with the world since he plot failed and the only reason he's interested now was because of White Beard. With that in mind, it's probably safe to assume the only reason he decide to escape was because Luffy informed him about his plans rescue Ace and that gives Crocodile a shot at White Beard. You can argue that Luffy trying to save Ace gives Crocodile a reason to leave Impel Down.
Last edited by Dark Dragon; Thu, 04-15-2010 at 05:03 AM.
Luffy hasn't beaten a real villain on his own since Lucci. The defeat of Moria was far from convincing and then there was Kuma, Sentoumaru, Kizaru and now Magellan. Which one of these has Luffy 'outclassed'? And now he is about to charge into Marineford where his enemies will only get stronger? For Luffy, breaking in and out of Impel Down has all been about luck, not strength. If anything, the last couple of arcs have pointed out how weak he is in the grand scheme of things.
Personally I am quite alright with him being able to easily disponse of weak enemies while still struggling against the stronger ones. Given what he has already accomplished, I would be dissappointed if he had nothing to show for it and couldnt outclass some of the less formidable folks.
How is that? A brutally battered Luffy still managed to beat Moria's Shadow Asgard with relative ease
My personal opinion is that Moria screwed up with the Shadow Asgard. He let the emotions get the better of him and sucked in too many shadows.
Edit: Also the Moria battle involved teamwork from the strawhats, in contrast to the Lucci and Enel battles. It doesn't count for Luffy as beating someone 'on his own'.
Last edited by Splash!; Thu, 04-15-2010 at 11:21 AM.
Because I've said "except Magellan" like 8 times in this conversation already.
Except that there shouldn't BE any low rank jail wardens in a place like Impel Down. It's not some prison in some backwater island. It's the World Government's insane hell dungeon for mass murderers with army obliterating magic powers.
Last edited by DarthEnderX; Fri, 04-16-2010 at 03:26 AM.
Getting too fuul of himself was his own mistake, being an idiot counts as a power down as much as any other factor
They used teamwork against Oz, not against Moria. Moria was beaten by an already shadow discharged, twice geared and insanely beaten down Luffy
Moria's battle WAS from the inside of Oz. Once Oz was defeated, there was only Shadow Asgard and the knockout punch. At this point Moria had already sustained heavy damage from nightmare Luffy's assault on Oz.
I am not saying Moria deserved to win that battle. He had it coming for being an idiot and underestimating Luffy. I just don't think it was the same as the single handed ass whooping Luffy delivered to Lucci, Enel (Ok in this case, Luffy had the advantage on a technicality, but he still handled the situation on his own) and Crocodile.
So basically what you're saying is that Moria's defeat wasn't as decisive as the ones suffered by Luffy's other main foes because there were too many variables?
If so, i agree, but despite that i still consider that battle as Luffy's clear victory
Right. As I said:
Factoring in Nightmare Luffy and the strawhat's previous engagement of Oz, I would not count this as a victory by his own means. I guess the choice of words was a bit strong. Moria's defeat was not so much 'far from convincing' as it was 'not as convincing'.
What's the difference? Moria was using Oz and shadows (other people's powers) all the time. It's not like he would have been alone like Enel or Lucci, for example.
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