Regardless of who the decision of who becomes Hokage is up to, Danzou himself said that he was never Hokage. Doesn't seem to be anything left to argue after that.
Regardless of who the decision of who becomes Hokage is up to, Danzou himself said that he was never Hokage. Doesn't seem to be anything left to argue after that.
This was already addressed like... 1 post ago.Originally Posted by Sidnne
Just for the record, if you`re going to say Danzou is not hokage because the jounin didn`t voted, then neither is Kakashi...
Last edited by UChessmaster; Fri, 02-19-2010 at 11:36 PM.
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
Are you on crack? Or just being salty?
Right, i`m done with the argument, you win.
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
Sasuke vs Kakashi fight happens. Naruto shows up. Convinces Sasuke to stop being a bad guy. Sasuke turns. What all the 3rd hokage could not accomplish with Orochimaru, Naruto will accomplish with Sasuke. Note how Sasuke has come close to really doing unforgivable things...he has ALWAYS been stopped by someone. Almost killing Karin, almost killing Sakura etc. Its a sign that Sasuke has room for redemption. It will be Naruto and Sasuke v Madara.
And because of that redemption.... the manga will turn to shit... or rather, continue to be shit. I know the series is suppose to be about friendship and all..... but I honestly think they are taking this too far. People change, move on. Like what Obi-wan did to Anakin.
But we don't know the outcome yet, so I'll hold my breath.
lol kakashi going to die for real this time
I'm more leaning towards Sasuke is going to keep being evil...However, he is going to redeem himself in the end. Madara/Naruto will fight and Sasuke will somehow switch sides and kill Madara at a critical moment when all hope seems lost while also sacrificing himself and saving everyone because he was finally convinced by Naruto that revenge is wrong..
I'm agreeing with this. Kakashi would gain a lot of credit as 'Hokage' material if he were to be able to deal with Sasuke. Power differences aside, Kakashi is still more experienced, and he has the Mangekyo trumpcard. Sasuke has only dealt with it one other time, against Itachi, and Itachi's is genjutsu based so Sasuke had plenty of time to analyze the situation and break it. Kinda hard to stop and analyze a technique when it's ripping your arms off.
So close. Sasuke was so close to killing Sakura. I guess Kishimoto was just teasing us.
"Samsonlonghair - The Defender of the Oppressed And Shunned!" -Kraco
The Naruto story has one very enduring constant: strength trumps all. It trumps experience, it trumps inventiveness, cleverness, it trumps numbers, everything. If there's a significant strength difference between opponents, the weaker opponent certainly cannot beat the stronger, but he also cannot hide from the stronger, cannot run from the stronger, cannot outsmart the stronger to any significant effect. The only time variables other than strength matter, is when the opponents are evenly matched in strength. There used to be this rock/paper/scissors theory going around about which fighter would be able to defeat which other fighter, but clearly that's been done away by a preponderance of evidence against that theory found in the manga. Strength far outweighs all else.
Right now, it's kind of difficult to gauge what Sasuke's strength is. He's been able to use, time and time again, his ultimate eye techniques. In fact, they were his most used techniques since the start of the fight against the kages. Kakashi, died trying to use his mangekyo less than a handful of times. I'm with everyone that if Sasuke is that strong, it's complete BS. Unfortunately, that would be perfectly in line with the manga. I don't want to see Kakashi lose, but I would not be surprised either way.
Every Shikamaru fight contradicts this.
One Shikamaru fight contradicts the general pattern Uchiha Barles talks about.
He lost to Temari because he was out of chakra. He won against a random female during the Chuunin exam. He ran out of chakra when he tried to stop the 7 ninjas chasing after Naruto, Sasuke, and had to be rescued. He lost against the pink haired Sound Four girl because he ran out of chakra, and had to be rescued.
The only example of his smarts actually winning a fight against a strong opponent was against Hidan, who was dumb as dogshit to start with. And that was after Shikamaru and his team got creamed by Hidan and Kakuzu, to the effect of losing his sensei.
I disagree with Barles, at least partly though. Teamwork has been shown to work pretty well a few times. The team that finally took down Kakuzu is an okay example.
Last edited by poopdeville; Sun, 02-21-2010 at 03:40 PM.
"After all, I am strangely colored."
Fixed .
He beat the Sound girl during the chuunin exam when he knocked her out by banging her head against the wall using her shadow.
And in the other fights, especially against the flute chick, he completely outsmarted his opponents and essentially negated their superior strength, which allowed him to survive and ultimately win in the end, which does contradict Uchiha Barles' theory that a weaker opponent "cannot outsmart the stronger to any significant effect."
There are a few things about shikamaru and his fights to consider.
1) I'm not at all convinced that the girl Shikamaru fought in the preliminaries was actually stronger than he was. If she was, it did not seem like she was CLEARLY stronger than he was. Their strengths were likely comparable.
The tactic you mentioned shikamaru using was also not all that brilliant. It seems like a basic tactic to use in conjuction with the powers he had. If you can cause someone to mirror your every move, the basic tactic is to cause your movements to be safe to you, but cause harm to them. Moving five steps back when there's solid ground behind you, but a precipice behind your opponent is in line with what he actually did, and quite basic for that technique. Wearing kunai on both legs when most opponents only wear them on one is another. That way, you grab a knife such that the corresponding leg of your opponent doesn't have one, and their grasping at air. Then, you walk up and stab them with the knife, while they "stab" you with nothing. Again, it's a basic tactic for that power.
2) The fight against Tayuya doesn't serve as a counter example either, because just like poop said, shikamaru needed to be saved. Him being saved was not part of his own calculations. As far as he was concerned, it was over for him. Shikamaru was defeated, but thanks to someone else coming in and saving him, he was not killed. Now, one could argue that Shikamaru was not defeated IF it was actually a part of his plan to simply last long enough until help arrived. It wasn't though. His plan failed, and thus his combination of intellect powers wasn't enough to defeat Tayuya...thanks mostly to Tayuya's strength.
There are two reasons I didn't mention Shikamaru in my earlier post. First one, Shikamaru is not just smart, he's EXTREMELY smart. In general, far smarter than any of his opponents, or any opponent you've seen in the Naruto world at all. A great deal was done to impress that point upon us. So with regards to Shikamaru, it's almost as if his intelligence is a power, and thus you could consider it as part of his "strength". I understand some of the arguments against that, but the story's development is such that it really is just a gimmicky power because NO ONE ELSE'S intelligence plays a significant role in the outcome of a fight unless, like I said before, the strengths of the fighters are comparable. And as has already been mentioned, even in Shikamaru's fights, for the most part, his intelligence didn't make him win.
Which brings me to my second reason. Even if you disagree that Shikamaru's intelligence can be considered a power of sorts, Shikamaru is an exception. One character in a story of many. I think every fight with the exception of one or two (probably one) Shikamaru fights conform to the generalization I made.
I'll also agree with poop that there actually were a good number of fights in which team work was used to defeat stronger opponents.
Last edited by Uchiha Barles; Mon, 02-22-2010 at 10:57 AM.
How about other events during the sound 4 saga? Neji outsmarted the spider guy, I thought. And speaking of Neji, Naruto vs. Neji contradicts your theory. Neji was obviously superior in almost every way (I guess if you want to say the Kyuubi made him stronger, you can, but it only gave him that chakra boost toward the end). Naruto won through deception and, as did Neji when he beat the spider dude.
Neiji vs. the spider guy....I GUESS I'll have to allow that as a counterpoint. Never really liked that fight (Move from under the fucking spider...). Good point though, I forgot about that.
But for the Naruto vs. Neiji fight, indeed I do want to say the kyubi made Naruto stronger. The passive regeneration abilities it gives likely allowed him to take the pummeling neiji was giving him most of the fight. Furthermore, until the kyubi was released, Naruto was outmatched. It took the Kyubi's power to give Naruto an opportunity to make use of his cleverness. In otherwords, when Naruto finally used a power that demonstrated that he was strength wise comparable to Neiji, THEN his cleverness gave him the edge. Up until that point, no trick he had up his sleeve mattered in the slightest.
The thing that bothered me a bit in this episode is how does Sasuke knows Sakura is a Medical ninja?
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
Well, according to this, it seems that you mean strength in terms of "physical prowess and power". I would say that the kyuubi chakra only served to even things up a bit; but the actual battle came down to strength vs. subterfuge; and subterfuge and inventiveness won. Even with Neji's eye powers, superior technique and cleverness, it was a deception that defeated him. And I could probably think of some other examples, unless you count strength to also mean "special power", which mitigates things.
Last edited by rockmanj; Sat, 02-27-2010 at 06:49 PM.
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