Katanagatari

[shinta|hikari]

Indeed, my favorite part of this episode was when Togame decided not to complain about Shichika killing the woman. Protecting the enemies was never part of the promise Shichika made to Togame when he decided to be her sword. If he had to do even that, no doubt he would have died in the 2nd episode when he fought against the Namakura sword.

Still, I am not sure how Shichika actually feels after having killed that woman. It is only his 4th kill, including his father, and it was someone who he at least had built a certain connection with. He looked extremely lonely and miserable when he was just standing there with his hand all bloody. His behavior returned to normal when he faced Togame though. Is this because he is too ignorant of his own feelings due to his upbringing to respond to his emotions properly? Or did he intentionally hide his emotions to protect Togame by preventing her from feeling guilty over dragging him into the whole mess?

I really like the hair scenes in this show. While I did not like the slapstick parts of this episode, the other sections definitely made up for it.

[Ryllharu]

I actually disagree with you shinta. I doubt Shichika feels anything from killing Tsuruga Meisai. He said it best himself, he is Togame's sword. Swords don't feel anything, they are merely tools to be used. That was the beauty of that scene. Shichika didn't care, he was being used by Togame to acquire the swords. She was the one who felt guilt and regret at having to kill Meisai. She chose not to complete her comment because it was already done, and she had already agreed to the deal. She didn't like it, and wasn't happy about it, but she knew the outcome would happen this way as soon as Meisai suggested that method. Negotiations had broken down, a mortal duel was inevitable, and with her sword, the outcome was settled.

By that point, Togame had already unsheathed her blade and the battle begun. An exchange of blows can be equated to her hunt for the original sword, the start of the fight with Shichika the final exchange, drawn out to Meisai pulling the sword and using her ultimate technique. With that, Togame had equivalently found the weakness in Meisai's technique, and applied her final strike. Meisai tried to appeal to Shichika on multiple fronts, and failed both times. Meisai was fighting with a sword, Togame wielding him.

I loved that Togame tried to win this sword via reason. If this was simply one fight after another, the series might falter a bit for me. Instead, Togame tried reason; it may have failed, but she intentionally kept her sword sheathed during that attempt. She told Shichika to play outside, presenting herself in the least threatening way possible. Even when she was attacked and saved by Meisai, she did not break her vow to keep him placed aside. He eventually told her that wouldn't be possible after the Maniwani attack, but she was determined to not let it break down. Also, Togame was the one who regretted having to kill her. Togame agreed with Meisai's principles and mission. If she wasn't absolutely determined to collect all the swords for her own ambition, she would have liked to leave them be. She wanted to take the swords without violence involved.


Lastly, I seem to remember seeing something exactly like the Sentouryuu style in another series. I can't remember where, but I really like the concept of using an opponent's sword against them and then disposing it. As a style, it was the perfect parallel to the Kyotouryuu. Both are supposed to approach their opponent "unarmed" and then abandon the sword. Kyotouryuu smashes, removes or otherwise destroys the sword, followed by a kill. Sentouryuu steals it, kills, then casts it aside. The difference in the styles is that Sentouryuu still requires a sword for the killing blow, leading up to the poison of the Deviant Blades. Meisai grabbed them. She did not fully cast them aside as she should have. She gave them away, but always kept them close. That slowly corrupted her, though her motives were still pure. She relied on the swords, perverting her style. She may not have used them to fight her opponents (like the Maniwani), but she relied on them to help her defeat Shichika. Perhaps the outcome may have been different if she had tried to use Shichika's strength against him (like Judo or Aiki-jujutsu).

But the best part of the Sentouryuu? Meisai tried to use it on Togame. She tried two different methods to "steal" Togame's sword and use him to allow her to win. So in a way, she was still true to her form.

[shinta|hikari]

I see your point about Shichika, but I also think he is not as heartless (in the true sense of the word, because objects don't have hearts) as he seems. I'm not sure if I will like him any less if he really is indeed just a sword, but I am still hoping that his comment about a sword choosing a master and having a will of its own implies that he is not a mere tool either. It may be like that now, but maybe he will change throughout the series. It is always good to have well-rounded characters that change appropriately as the story goes on.

I think that the reason Shichika (possibly) does not care at all at present is because of his lack of experience and human contact. Maybe his travels with Togame can change that.

[Kraco]

I wouldn't be so sure of his uncaring attitude as well. However, I still think he will stay true to his promise and job. He's clearly not an evil man, like was demonstrated by the fact how he helped those girls carry the firewood despite it initially displeasing them and how he asked Tsuruga about why they are like they are. But regardless of that, he takes his occupation as a swordsman and a sword 100% seriously, underlined by succeeding his father by killing him (I'd assume that was the case).

Naturally an evil man wouldn't stick to Togame like that and serve her with no personal interest whatsoever in the swords she's collecting.

If you endorse the saying all who draw the sword will die by the sword there's nothing to regret after killing the opponent. If he was wondering about something before Togame appeared, it might have been whether Tsuruga had made the right choice.

[Death13a]

You forget most important part that Shichika asked Meisai for a "give up" option instead of killing. She was the one to choose death. He was taught by his father to kill without remorse anyone who wants to kill him. Meisai had done a lot in her past and clearly wanted to die as she was no match for Kyotouryuu style as she coming at him with single sword at witch he is best at.

[Ryllharu]

@Death13a: Meisai suggested the condition, Shichika accepted it, not the other way around. Before the fight, he was asking her why she was so easy going when he was going to end up killing her. This parallels the final exchange of a fight between two sword masters like I mentioned in my post above. By that point, Meisai had already known she would lose. She failed to steal Togame's sword, her Sentouryuu had failed.

@Kraco, shinta:

While I'm disappointed that you both focused on that part of my post rather than the rest of it, there is a reason that Shichika didn't care at all this episode. He as an individual was never challenged. As I said, this was a fight between the Sentouryuu and Togame, not Shichika and his Kyotouryuu. Meisai tried and failed to steal the sword (Shichika) from Togame. She even listed each of the times she failed. She was trying to appeal emotionally to a sword.

I don't think Shichika never feels anything, nor do I think this won't change considerably (especially given the skill of the next opponent according to the preview, who's skill we have already seen in "meanwhile..." scenes). Shichika was not challenged at all in the first episode or this one. We did see considerable change in attitude when he fought the iai technique guy in the desert. He was challenged, and his pride and the pride of the Kyotouryuu style was on the line. He correspondingly got fired up about it, and felt a bit of remorse afterward because he had fought a swordsman as a swordsman, rather than a tool wielded by Togame.

I agree with the both of you that he will change and the reason he is so aloof is because of the lack of human contact. But he felt nothing for Meisai, because he as a swordsman wasn't involved in the fight at all. You both seem to have extended what I said to the whole series rather than just this episode. I explicitly only mentioned Meisai.

[Buffalobiian]

He correspondingly got fired up about it, and felt a bit of remorse afterward because he had fought a swordsman as a swordsman, rather than a tool wielded by Togame.

When did he ever feel remorse for killing the quickdraw guy? All I remember was Shichika saying his last words were cool.

I'm sure he's never felt anything about killing anybody all the way up till now, but as for Meisai... I'm kind of on the fence. After all, she's the first person (that we've seen) to get him to at least start thinking about his reason to kill. How that has impacted on him, I can't say for sure.

I don't believe he's the type to hide anything from Togame however.

In addition, I don't believe Shichika to be "heartless", but it's a fact that he doesn't seem to feel much. When he talked about his trap capturing his sister, he didn't sound too concerned or sorry at all, just stating the fact that he got in trouble afterwards. (Of course, it could have been nothing serious, like a pitfall, but I was thinking more of a bear trap).

As for killing his father, the first scenario that came to my head was normal sparring where he's used to going all out - only this time he bettered his dad with fatal results.

I like the Maniwani ninjas, and I look forward to seeing them each episode. The way things are going now though, their role looks more like cannon-fodder to show off new sword techniques on each month, and then to have Shichika kill them in return.

Sentou also seemed rather bland.

Since we were talking about how Shichika changes over the course of the series, he's becoming a better and better talker for sure. That pause right before he commented about the stairs/embrace makes it sound completely intentional (as opposed to his usual "say whatever comes to mind" style).

I really like the hair scenes in this show. While I did not like the slapstick parts of this episode, the other sections definitely made up for it.

I agree. The bits after they got "entwined" felt forced, though I still found a bit of humour in it.

[shinta|hikari]

While I'm disappointed that you both focused on that part of my post rather than the rest of it.

I agreed with the rest so I didn't see any need to dwell on it.

[Kraco]

I really like the hair scenes in this show. While I did not like the slapstick parts of this episode, the other sections definitely made up for it.

I agree. The bits after they got "entwined" felt forced, though I still found a bit of humour in it.

The scene might have worked better if we had first seen what the two mikos saw, and only then got an explanation. Not that it would have made it a better or more believable joke as such but at least the presentation itself would have been funnier.

[Ryllharu]

When did he ever feel remorse for killing the quickdraw guy? All I remember was Shichika saying his last words were cool.

Shichika hesitated once against the quickdraw guy when he was overcome by the pressure he exerted. After, Shichika asked the guy why he was doing this. When he replied that it was to protect something, Shichika didn't respond with his usual aloof expressions, he took it in and then finished the fight. When you compare this to the first fight and this one against Meisai, he certainly felt something, admiration perhaps. He continued to think about it after the fact as mentioned by the narrator. He killed someone who he admitted was certainly his better (he never saw the blade), and his words about what would happen now to the desert (since he removed its lord) felt to a bit remorseful to me.

It could go either way, but that's the way I took it.

[Kraco]

He could very well feel sad at some level because someone he found interesting disappeared but that's different from feeling remorse because he killed the person. It's perfectly natural for him that in a duel one dies. It's a part of the game.

He was exiled to the island for all his life so any pondering he does during or after the kill could as well be a simple effort to try to understand the motivations and thoughts of people having much more life experience than he does. Due to his past he doesn't possess a very wholesome and strong identity himself, as was noted by Togame in episode 2 and made more than obvious by this episode when he himself underlined the condition of being nothing but a sword. It's no wonder if he feels intrigued by swordsmen of more solid character. He might be in reality wondering his own future.

[shinta|hikari]

I personally still feel that Shichika does have certain attachments and emotions towards both the Namakura guy and Meisai. It may not be remorse as Kraco said, but at the very least I don't think he disliked them (or he may have even felt a certain rapport with them) as people, especially with the sheer lack of individuals he knows.

[Ryllharu]

Anyone else aside, I will still contend that Meisai was a very specific case to illustrate how little a part Shichika played in that fight. It was never a battle he as a swordman was involved in. He was only involved as a sword. It was Togame's fight and he her sword, not his fight.

He showed compassion for the shrine girls in helping out, he showed curiosity (and a bit of concern) as to why they were so afraid of him, but in stark contrast, all of Meisai's pleads and attempts to coerce him into a compromised position fall flat. Unnaturally flat.

[shinta|hikari]

Indeed he was not affected during the fight at all, but that does not mean that he won't feel or think of anything after the fight.

I do understand that there is very little to support this assertion, but the scene when Shichika stood above Meisai's corpse with her blood on his hands, silent and unmoving gave me the impression that he was thinking about what he had done. A mere sword would simply leave the corpse and search for Togame, not stand around like he is in deep thought like Shichika did.

Still, it may not mean anything at all. Maybe Shichika just stood there because it was too troublesome to do anything else. I don't want him to be that kind of character though, because as Meisai said, it is simply Shichika's way of avoiding the responsibility of choosing. Shichika himself denied this though.

[Kraco]

I do understand that there is very little to support this assertion, but the scene when Shichika stood above Meisai's corpse with her blood on his hands, silent and unmoving gave me the impression that he was thinking about what he had done.

Or, like I said in my previous post, he might have been thinking about himself. "Is this all I want to do in my life?" for example. From his point of view Meisai may have looked like she achieved more, or something different at least, not being a mere swordswoman anymore by having become the leader of the convent.

[Kraco]

Version 2 without variable frame rate (shows in the file size) and some minor script changes:

Episode 3v2 - Mazui

[Buffalobiian]

Isn't variable bitrate a good thing? Why would they do that...

[Kraco]

Because it causes random lag on my poor old computer. That's why I appreciate it.

[David75]

The Sentoryu could be somewhat similar to the style used in Soul Eater by Mifune.

Does anyone understand when/why Togame's left eye changes to a violet ball with black cross? Some kind of power related to the 12 swords? If not, would it be possible Schichika is the ultimate sword?

Very basic ideas, I know.


Regarding the ep, I liked its atmosphere and aesthetics a lot. A very nice show indeed.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm trying to find a relationship between either her emotions or her thoughts and the eye activating. As the miko said, her hair only becomes that after "something" happens, and I gather it's shock, which also resulted in her eye.

My initial thoughts are that it's probably got to do with how she "seald her heart", and maybe when that eye opens, it's revealing that she's temporarily opened it up or something.