I'll have to agree with Ryll. Selnia has one hell of an advantage at this point but i also believe that you should never underestimate the "childhood friend card" when it comes to anime, it's like a wild joker in these things
That aside, the blushing in the end was pretty cute
While I don't expect any final choice to be made in the series, I'm thinking that Tomomi still has an advantage. One, as already mentioned she is a childhood friend, and not only that, she is a childhood friend that the guy previously liked. Two, in some parts of that episode, Akiharu actually did see her as a girl, and not just the evil conniving sort. Three, she has always been helping Akiharu out from the shadows (even if she started most of the problems in the first place), and when Akiharu realizes this, he will probably regain trust in Tomomi, which may awaken his feelings for her as well. Four, Selnia is more of a tsundere comic relief character, and those types practically never win in the end in these kinds of shows.
Peace.
1) Tomomi is a childhood friend he previously liked. He liked her when he said that his dream was to be a bride, but after that, Tomomi stepped up her efforts teasing him until she moved away. He became her target the same way that Selnia is her primary target now. This one is up for debate, but given the mistrust he has for her, I don't think his feelings are anything more than memories now.
2) The way he said it had the air of, "Oh, so you really are a girl after all." A snide remark to go along with his unending skepticism of her motives the entire episode.
3) I don't think he'll regain trust in her because of that. She told him she would be his ally, but he doesn't trust her, again, all due to their prior interaction. He knows what Tomomi is really like, not who she appears to be to everyone else in the school. She doesn't try to hide it from him. Just like here, his first intuition is that she is up to something. You can say she's been doing it for him, but that doesn't change the truth. Tomomi has been helping out Akiharu because whatever he gets involved in, she usually gains a great deal of amusement in return. Keeping him in the school made Selnia furious, helping him out with the various girls granted her abnormal things to do. Keeping him from being married to the one keeps him accessible to her. Life playing the rich and cultured girl was boring before she had a proxy to use her plans through.
He won't regain trust in her because he knows what she is really like, not the role she plays when she's around others. She even threatened him in the first episode if he dared reveal it.
Furthermore, Tomomi even wondered to herself if she had gone too far with her pranks.
4) Not all tsundere comic relief characters lose. In fact, quite a number of them do win. That would depend on your definition of what comedy relief constitutes to. Tsunderes in comedy romance series win a lot. Selnia has shifted from comedy relief in Akiharu's eyes considerably in recent episodes. You can't just ignore the gains in respect he has given her, and the the respect she now gives Akiharu compared to the initial episodes.
2) I did not mean one specific scene. There are several scenes where Akiharu was embarrassed when Tomomi made advances. This won't happen if you don't think of the partner as a girl, and a possible romantic interest.
3) Akiharu thinks that Tomomi is incapable of anything other than doing pranks for her own amusement. However, we (the audience) know that she is not just that. While she loves her entertainment, she also has genuine concern for Akiharu. If he realizes this, then the wall between them will most likely disappear.
4) What I mean by tsundere comic relief characters is that they are the brunt of most of the jokes in the show. Tsundere characters usually win in the end, but not when they are treated like comic relief characters. Selnia is simply hard to take seriously or sympathize with because of how she is portrayed.
EDIT: I may have simply forgotten them so I am not sure, but I can't seem to remember many series with a tsundere comic relief character (that accurately fit the definition I stated above) winning in the end. The only one that popped out is Narusegawa. Louise also seems to fit, but not Shana or even Taiga. Can you refresh my memory of others? I can easily name those that don't fit into the category though, leading me to believe that the latter is much more prominent.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Fri, 03-05-2010 at 07:54 PM.
Peace.
3) Do we? Tomomi doesn't even seem to recognize it herself. She certainly didn't before this episode. She was wondering where her feelings came from the same as Selnia. So unless you mean the clear assumption that she will realize it (or had at the conclusion of this episode,) I disagree that was as the audience know she is more than that.Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
4) I don't find Selina hard to take serious or sympathize with. She is a rich, smart, high class girl who takes a great deal of pride in herself and her position. We saw it clearly last episode. She cares for her servants (mentioned that the beach was usually for them), acts as a lady should when favors are done to her, and attempts to regain her pride when she perceives it to be slighted (as with the first episode). She is hot-headed and occasionally irrational, but that doesn't make her a Sunohara. Selnia is not a comedy relief character for the sake of comedy relief. She is far more like a Narusegewa.
Naming tsunderes who "win" would in my mind constitute as spoilers, and the phrasing of the question would imply those same spoilers by naming the series they are in. I'll name a few if you wish, but it will be in PM if you ask for it.
However, I think you are not taking Selnia seriously enough, and giving her the role of the pointless comedy relief character, in the same capacity that the Otaku Princess, principal, and overreacting handmaiden are to this series. The previous episode made it abundantly clear that Selnia should be considered a serious candidate, especially in light that the only other serious candidate recognized that something is growing between Selnia and Akiharu, leading to this date.
I am by no means stating that Selnia will win, but to imply that Tomomi has some sort of advantage given these four discussed criteria is a falsehood. The two are on quite equal footing after this episode and the previous. Akiharu may trust Tomomi infinitesimally more (yet is still constantly wary), but Selnia is on his mind far more than Tomomi is. To him, his relationship was a one-sided affair, long in the past.
She did realize it at the end of this episode, and I am pretty sure that Akiharu will too before this show ends. It is a guess, I know, but one with really high probability.
I think that there are numerous scenes before this episode that show that she does actually care, even if not romantically at that point, for Akiharu (like how she stopped the marriage to the princess character), so we simply have to agree to disagree on the matter of the audience knowing that Tomomi cares for Akiharu beyond being a plaything.
I have to admit that I do feel that way towards her, but mainly because she acts like it. She isn't Sunohara, but she is like a ton of other tsundere comic relief characters that simply get relegated as an after thought when another girl gets the spotlight. It almost seems like she is a comedy character with some personality added to make her a main love interest, instead of the other way around, but that judgment is probably tainted by my dislike for noisy tsundere types like her.
Also, I would appreciate it if you can pm me the shows that you have thought of, excluding the ones I have already mentioned. It would serve as a good refresher on old anime that I may have forgotten. Thanks.
Peace.
To clarify, the issue between the two of us is whether or not Tomomi has a distinct advantage, which I found to be baseless given the four things you mentioned. I certainly believe if she has an advantage it is because of past history and childhood first crush status. Akiharu is more comfortable around her, and does confide in her from time to time. That does not mean he trusts her, nor is the first thought when he thinks of her is that she is a girl, he thinks of her as the dreaded Tomomi, terror of his childhood.
He thought of her as a first love before she began her reign of terror on him. That was eroded under her onslaught until he was terrified of her. To her credit and further evidence, her methods of "torturing" him are a rather convincing sign that she did like him. Little girls that age absolutely pick on the boys they like. The difference is perhaps that Tomomi never recognized that aspect of her terrorism. In fact, I think she has only started to realize it. The closest thing Tomomi has to "friends" are those whom she frequently abuses. Selnia is both her rival and the person she spends the most time with. Akiharu is her only true confidant. She plays pranks on the other main girls, who also seem to trust in her to a reasonable level enough to show parts of themselves they had kept secret before now.
But I don't believe she has a distinct advantage. Tomomi may be the closest to Akiharu, but even if it was out of obligation, Selnia has made the first move. The two are on each others minds quite a bit. Selnia is too dense to realize she likes him, Akiharu doesn't know what to make of it yet, and Tomomi is starting to realize she has pushed him away. I think they are all about equal distance from each other, though Akiharu probably is the furthest along in determining his own feelings, for whomever they may be.
There's something very important to factor here, Tomomi and Akiharu are slowly getting away their chilhood and will become adults.
They are at a time when views change and Akiharu can't forever hold a grudge or be afraid of Tomomi.
He's portrayed as slightly uninterested in women for the moment (but gets body reactions), but that will change too.
From there, everything can change.
Regarding Selnia, it is strange to think that in a way Akiharu treats her a little like Tomoni does treat him. You would think that he likes her enough for her to be his favourite partner. Same could be for Tomomi, that's what she tried to find out this episode at least.
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
But this was the first thing I mentioned.
But I never said that the first thought when Akiharu thinks of her is that she is a girl. I said that he still considers her a girl, despite also being a terror. Rather than this being an advantage, I noted it as a condition that allows Tomomi to be a candidate. If Akiharu did not even consider her a girl, then she would be out from the get go.
I didn't say distinct advantage either. I just said Tomomi still has an advantage, one that she retained from before when Akiharu still didn't know much about Selnia. I also think it is a very close race, like you said.
Peace.
You specifically mentioned, "Childhood friend that he previously liked," where I just wrote it as an advantage if the fact remains that he still likes her, which I have my doubts. Fair enough then, I will formally concede this one, which is why I went on to focus on your second and fourth points. They aren't sufficiently distinct enough phrases to make an issue out of it.
And I don't think he does still consider her a girl after all the terrorism he suffered. He thinks of her as Tomomi, like a figment of a nightmare. Perhaps he is beginning to reconcile with that notion, but not anywhere completely, even in episode 9.
I agree, but is certainly hasn't happened yet, which is why shinta should not be considering it as an advantage for Tomomi. However, I do think he has begun to get interested in Selnia recently, where to contrast he no longer thinks of Tomomi as anything but a past childhood romance.
I'm not sure what you mean by this here (or I'm not remembering). He's only gone on one outing with Selnia, and that was because he knew that she couldn't abuse him as she had hoped. Like you said above, it seems that he is generally disinterested about women, and more concerned about finding a partner for the exercises at all (because most girls in the school are scared of him). He has typically taken the first offer made to him. It's worked out that either Selnia or Tomomi just missed their opportunities, usually resulting in comedic shock for Selnia or mild surprise for Tomomi. Care to give a few examples of what you mean about Akiharu treating Selnia the way Tomomi treats him?
Last edited by Ryllharu; Sat, 03-06-2010 at 11:09 AM. Reason: spelling, proofreading, consistency
Well, the comparison with Tomomi's behavior was a bit strong, but Akiharu always calls Selnia "Drill" to have her react. To my knowledge, she's the only one he treats in such a way being averagely polite to everyone else except Tomomi of course.
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
Akiharu is not the only one calling Selnia's hair drills, though. Not that it would make it any more okay, but I view him a bit cynical and maybe stoic, which would be explained by his harsh past. Considering the way Selnia welcomed him to the school, he's just paying back that way, but not showing her quite the level of respect Selnia herself thinks she deserves.
Well, it's an uber traditional plot element, really. People who treat you more personally or differently are sure to catch your attention more. I guess objectively speaking from Selnia's pov, she paid so much attention to him also because she wanted to prove him she's a real lady despite what happened (and kept happening due to the comic relief).
All in all I couldn't say which one has an advantage. I tend to agree with David regarding the fact that when/if Akiharu notices Tomomi is a girl in love, provided it sufficiently alters her behavior, he might sweep aside the past as mere childhood. On the other hand the more he sees Selnia's true character, the more it could widen the social class gap between them. That might not happen with Tomomi since those two were the same back in their childhood. She has hardly been a lady for him ever.
Last edited by Marik; Thu, 03-11-2010 at 05:23 AM.
Last edited by Marik; Thu, 03-18-2010 at 08:10 AM.
Thanks, I can't beleive how thick headed a person can be.. Mostly they are like this in harem animes and i didn't mind it too much but somehow I didn't like how the ending episode was proceeding. I got irritated tru the end.
Thanks shinta|hikari for the sig.
While I glad this is over I liked how it ended with respect to Akiharu's decision and the effect it had on the girls though I didn't particularly like how the two girls behaved in response. The climax of this episode revealed the gross oversight on the part of both sides of the battle for Akiharu. Neither seemed to consider the notion that Akiharu simply wasn't romantically interested in EITHER of them enough to make anything happen. I can see how to romance fans out there this might be cause to vilify Akiharu but for me it was a step in a positive direction in terms of harem male-lead behavior. It takes two people to make a relationship, no matter how much one character wants to be with another if that other character is not even looking for love then there is no good end to be had.
I think Selenia and Tomomi wanted something from him that he was at best neutral to and at worst actively disinterested in. Akiharu seemed content to just live his life, make friends, and try to be a decent person. I don't think it ever even occurred to him that the girls could want him romantically . This is where my beef with the final scene comes in. Akiharu did what he was told to do, listened to their speeches, believed their lies, and tried to make the best of the situation as it was presented to him. The fact that the two girls couldn't or wouldn't come clean to him is not his fault yet in the end he is bitch slapped AND criticized by the entire cast for essentially trusting his friends at their word when interpreting the meaning behind their behavior.
Maybe my Y chromosome goggles are making me interpret this in too male-centric a way but the way I see it he treated the girls like I would expect a person to treat another person while they treated him like a toy they both wanted to play with. In the end I think the girls got exactly what they deserved from him which was exactly what they asked for and nothing that they didn't.
Hmm, I like that take on it Yuki. Not something I thought about.
As for me, I expected that precise outcome the moment that Akiharu was given the tickets, even before Selnia and Tomomi found out about it. He's too dense (or as you point it disinterested) in romance with them. But because he's a nice guy, he sees two girls in a very heated competition for a single ticket, and he immediately thinks that they must really want to go to the water park. He figured it was the best way to make them both happy/satisfied, which as a servant-in-training, is his primary duty.
I wonder if Tomomi's brutality when they were younger didn't scar him for life. He liked a girl, confided in her, and was nearly immediately betrayed. Whether Tomomi was really solely malicious or just acting like an elementary school girl who picks on the boy she likes is up for debate.
But that is a bit on the bleak side, so I think a more appropriate to say that he doesn't consider them romantic interests because in his mind, the two are far out of his league. He is a servant, and they are both high class ladies. Tomomi already proved to him long ago that he wasn't good enough for her. He was her servant back then, or maybe even slave. Selnia is a rich and high class lady. He may have taken her down a few notches when they first met, and he didn't respect her because of her brash attitude. But the beach episode changed that. He saw that she acted in the way that is expected of those in the upper class. Akiharu probably can't even conceive of the concept of them liking him. I wonder what his reaction might be if the clumsy Shikikagami sister started to express a subtle interest in him. Perhaps he might not be so dense about it.
Like you said, if they two had been a bit more honest with themselves and with Akiharu, we may have seen a very different outcome. There was the similar event with Ayse. He didn't want her to be forced into marriage with a guy like him simply because he saw her naked on accident. But he reacted very differently when she wished that one day he might be able to accept her feelings. Selnia and Tomomi both saved him out of not wanting to lose him (before they both knew they loved him), but each made an excuse that he took.
Ayse might be even more of an upper class lady than Tomomi and Selnia, but once she admitted her feelings, he saw her differently, though it did not last for the rest of the season since she and Hedyeh immediately became side characters.
Fun show, hope it gets a sequel eventually
[Kira-Fansub] Ladies versus Butlers! Special 01 [BD 720p] - Torrent | MegaUpload
Fanservice to the max.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
