Tsunderes: sick of them yet?

[MFauli]

wait, what?
afaik "moe" is clearly relating to sexual attraction. Maybe i just got it wrong, but...whatever anime-series i watched that used the word "moe", it was relating to the above. Would love some clarification.

[Ryllharu]

It has always been my understanding that moe inspired a desire to want to protect the character who had moe characteristics.

Hence Pandadice usage of Hitosubashi Yurie and gunslinger girls. KEY series (AIR, Kanon, Clannad) of course are ideal for this as well.

[Kraco]

I certainly never considered sexual attraction to be a requirement for moe. I mean, something like Lucky Star is full of different (modern) moe archetypes but who would ever get a boner from watching Lucky Star..?

I think it's just a combination of the design and personality of a character that make it moe. If you find that design extremely pleasant and interesting, it's moe for you.

[Pandadice]

It has always been my understanding that moe inspired a desire to want to protect the character who had moe characteristics.

yeah, isn't that the common definition? the only way i really understand the whole "need to protect" sentiment is for like, characters that you watch and you get that heartwarming sensation of seeing something beautiful. thes the only way the "need to protect" definition has ever made sense to me.

I certainly never considered sexual attraction to be a requirement for moe. I mean, something like Lucky Star is full of different (modern) moe archetypes but who would ever get a boner from watching Lucky Star..?

exactly, thats how i see it.. if the character gets you off, then they clearly aren't moe.

I think it's just a combination of the design and personality of a character that make it moe. If you find that design extremely pleasant and interesting, it's moe for you.

well yeah it's all about personal preference :\.

but see the thing is moe is applied to these little girls, and people see that adn mistake it for being the same as loliconism. which then leads others to say "well, your moe is lolicon, my moe is knee socks or pigtails or glasses or large chests", and moe becomes synonymous with fetish :\

[Archangel]

exactly, thats how i see it.. if the character gets you off, then they clearly aren't moe.

I disagree, i don't think moe and sexy have to go hand and hand but i don't think they're mutually exclusive either



Case in point

[darkshadow]

How is she sexy? >_>

[Ryllharu]

It's not Mikuru's body that makes her moe, it's the strange weeping sounds, cowering, and generalized weakness/helplessness for most people. Copy that to any character with a different physical appearance and the same thing exists.

You wouldn't say adult Mikuru is moe, would you? Her personality is very different. Tsundere and moe are both personality and demeanor traits. The physical appearance is largely inconsequential.

[Yukimura]

I had heard of the perversion of the term tsundere but I hadn't really internalized the extent of it until reading this thread. From what some of you are saying it sounds like it used to be the case that a 'tsundere' character was a character that went through a progression from harsh and hostile towards someone to sweet and caring over the course of a story as the characters interacted and presumably realized they were in 'love'.

The first time I ever heard the term it was in reference to girls who consistently responded to their feelings for a guy by being especially violent and/or rude and/or cold to him so that's all I've ever known of the term. Since that time I've seen more and more Kugimiya style characters and they always get labeled tsundere and their core behavioral trait seems to be that they are alternatively dere and tsun toward their love interest, often depending on which way the wind is blowing at the time. I ended up under the impression that that was the reason they received the label tsundere. What I find really interesting is that this original meaning sounds more like a potential character development path than an actual character archetype. I can't help but think that maybe part of the reason the meaning of the term has shifted is that many shows with romantic subplots focus less on telling complete stories with beginning,rising action, climax, falling action, resolution) and more on milking as many 'rising action with subclimax' seasons out of the same setting as possible. Lasting character development like growing up would seemingly get in the way of such a practice as it would hasten the end of the 'conflict' and thus the excuse for the romantic subplot to exist.

[Kraco]

I have no doubt of that. Although I reckon one reason is mangaka / studios noticing an aloof girl unhonest to her true feelings is a strong moe characteristic. Greedily they proceeded to stuff the poor original tsundere through a chromatograph, selected the Kugimiya style compound, concentrated it in an evaporator and the rest is anime history.

I mainly like tsundere when there's a change she will go down the development path of shifting from tsundere to tsundere. Although Senjougahara style is perfect for me as well like I said earlier. I dislike Kugimiya style characters, though, although I suppose it's not her fault but the fault of the morons behind the story.

[Archangel]

For those who chose the 3rd option, Tsundere 101