The next episode has sick animation so I'm definitely looking forward to it.
The next episode has sick animation so I'm definitely looking forward to it.
By that logic, it would mean that the amazons are more determined than Luffy cause Luffy can't inject haki into weapons. I'm sure its way more complicated than that.Originally Posted by poopdeville
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
We know Shanks can use haki to cripple his opponents, unless they have the ambition to resist it. Shanks and Mihawk fought evenly, supposedly. Ergo, Mihawk can resist it.
"After all, I am strangely colored."
Being able to resist it doesn't mean he has the ability to use it. Nami didn't get knocked out by Raleigh's use of Haki in the auction house, and I doubt she would be considered able to use Haki.
I'm pretty sure when Raleigh used his power in the Auction House, he specifically excluded the strawhats and his friends. Because even the starfish didn't pass out. And I don't think the starfish has stronger will than the guards.
Nah, but Raleigh did look somewhat surprised to see Law and Kidd's crews withstand it, and I doubt they know how to fight with haki...
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
If they don't now, I'm sure they will by the time we see them again.
I actually wonder how the other Super Nova crews made it out, or if they made it out. Alot of them got owned by Kizaru, and then Law/Kid barely defeated one Pacifista, and then another one arrived right when they were exhausted from fighting the first one. And I doubt Kuma teleported all of them away, like what happened to the Strawhats.
Yes it does. That's exactly what it means. It was Mihawk's determination to win against Shanks' determination. If one of them is too scared to fight, the other wins by default. You can't resist another person's determination without determination of your own. (Isn't this obvious? It's true in real life.)
Rayleigh's "haki blast" is not a super power. It's a reflection of the fact that people sense strength, and showing his true strength scares the crap out of everybody else. Rayleigh was hiding his true powers before the auction, and revealed a tiny bit of them, to make the weak shit their pants.
Nami might not have exceptional "true powers", but she has enough determination to be a Straw Hat. That is to say, Nami's true powers don't really scare anyone into shitting their pants. But she obviously has an ambition (sailing around the world and making her map, being a Straw Hat), and SOME powers. She has used that determination as a source of power in fights before. So she has been "using" her haki. Indeed, Nami resisted it, and Rayleigh was impressed. When other people were in enough terror to faint, the Straw Hats and other pirate crews kept their cool (presumably because they've been through tough fights and scary situations before, and are "strong")
Haki is not a super power. This is all unambiguous in Japanese, by the way. 'Haki' doesn't have a direct English translation, but means "ambition", "determination", and "disposition" or "attitude". Everybody has an attitude, and every fighter brings his attitude into his fights.
Ussop is probably the clearest example of an "unconfirmed" "haki user" we have seen. Perona's Negative Hollow DF attack filled the victim with thoughts of negativity. But Ussop's is ALWAYS scared shitless (and is a pessimist to boot), and even still is determined to do what he needs to do to become a great warrior of the sea. So Perona's attack didn't affect him. Ussop's attitude (his extreme negativity) and determination (his will to fight in spite of his negativity) -- his haki -- is what got him through that fight. I mean that very literally, and Ussop even said so.
But as I said, this is unambiguous in Japanese. We will probably never get "confirmation" that Ussop was using haki then, because it is so blindingly obvious if you know what the word means (which admittedly, is easily lost in translation. Especially to a western audience that expects a power scale or something like Nen in Hunter x Hunter)
Last edited by poopdeville; Thu, 07-23-2009 at 01:43 PM.
"After all, I am strangely colored."
Nen from Hunter X Hunter is exactly the impression that I get from Ambition at the moment. When it's explained better I might change my mind, but that's how I view it currently.
You know what else isn't supposed to be a super power? Chi. Yet apparently in the DBZ world it causes you to glow and shoot projectiles from your hands.
In the world of shounen, anything can become a super power. There's no other reason why generic amazon #23 can shatter rocks with her haki arrows while Lucci's punches bounced off of Luffy's rubber body.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Haki is a power people are using in One Piece to knock people out, to break things, or to fight logia users. Its the fucking Chi of One Piece, how can you say anything to the contray lol? Was Luffy not determined as fuck when Aokiji nearly killed him? Or the first two times against Crocodile? Otherwise, how else can you explain generic amazon women using Haki better than Luffy when he had defeated a Shichibukai? Are they more determined than Luffy? Of course not. Nami is not a Haki user. She can resist it, but that doesn't mean she can use it.
What do the Amazons have to do with Aokiji and Crocodile? Yes, Luffy was determined against Aokiji and Crocodile. It turns out that you need to be strong and determined, because Aokiji is strong. I don't see how this contradicts what I said. In fact, it seems to indicate that determination alone is not strength. Luffy would have done anything within his power to save the crew from Kuma, for example, but he couldn't do anything. He was too weak.
Yes, the Amazons have skills Luffy doesn't. So does Sanji and Zoro and Nami and everybody else. Luffy also doesn't know how to make flames come out of his feet. That is Sanji's talent. Luffy also doesn't know how to use his feelings to accurately predict the weather. That's Nami's talent. So what is your point? That one technique "uses" haki? What makes you think the others don't? Indeed, "haki" means "attitude", "determination", "ambition". All of these characters have developed their skills and become stronger as a means to pursue their ambitions. Haki isn't a skill at all.
Last edited by poopdeville; Thu, 07-23-2009 at 07:51 PM.
"After all, I am strangely colored."
All of that hinges on the fact that Oda means Haki literally, instead of just using it at the name of his spiritual energy for his series. Like Chakra in Naruto, which means something completely different in the real world, but in Naruto is just used as a name for the series spiritual energy.
Any notion I had for ambition as an idea instead of an energy went out the window when they said they could imbue their weapons with it.
Luffy has used Haki maybe once or twice thus far, and did so without knowing what it is. The Amazons apparently use it for all their attacks. Therefore, the Amazons are better at using Haki than Luffy at this moment. Are generic amazons, who use Haki in all of their attacks, stronger and more determined than Luffy? No, they aren't. Infact, on the grand order of things, I'd say that alot of these Amazons we have seen aren't even that strong. The Strongest Amazons are with Boa Hancock, and the weaker ones are left on the island. Therefore, Haki isn't literally people who are "strong and determined" having special abilities (such as knocking people out, splitting the sky, or damaging Logia users).What do the Amazons have to do with Aokiji and Crocodile? Yes, Luffy was determined against Aokiji and Crocodile. It turns out that you need to be strong and determined, because Aokiji is strong. I don't see how this contradicts what I said. In fact, it seems to indicate that determination alone is not strength. Luffy would have done anything within his power to save the crew from Kuma, for example, but he couldn't do anything. He was too weak.
Haki is the "chi" or "chakra" or whatever in One Piece. This is an established fact now.
That last "therefore" simply does not follow from what you have established. All you have shown is that the Amazons are more skilled at ONE PARTICULAR "haki-using skill." I am saying that HAKI ISN'T A SKILL. I am saying that Haki is a reflection of a person's skill and determination. Luffy has his OWN haki, and it's called the King's Disposition, and he has shown it about a dozen times by now. Basically every time he's yelled while punching somebody out. (Crocodile, Enel, the Tenryubiito guy for example)Luffy has used Haki maybe once or twice thus far, and did so without knowing what it is. The Amazons apparently use it for all their attacks. Therefore, the Amazons are better at using Haki than Luffy at this moment. Are generic amazons, who use Haki in all of their attacks, stronger and more determined than Luffy? No, they aren't. Infact, on the grand order of things, I'd say that alot of these Amazons we have seen aren't even that strong. The Strongest Amazons are with Boa Hancock, and the weaker ones are left on the island. Therefore, Haki isn't literally people who are "strong and determined" having special abilities (such as knocking people out, splitting the sky, or damaging Logia users).
Are you really going to argue that Luffy wasn't using his fists to show his determination against Rob Lucci? That he wasn't pushing himself as hard as he could, so he could punch Rob Lucci as hard as he could? That is just as much "haki" as the Amazons shooting their arrows "extra hard". (What do you think shooting arrows "extra hard" reveals about the Amazons? I think it means they have practiced their archery, just as Luffy has practiced his DF skills to become strong)
So Luffy didn't know what it was called. Big flippin deal.
Also, it's pretty stupid to say that the Amazons are not "strong and determined" just because the strongest of them leave the island. They are a race of warriors, and they value strength above everything else. That is why they are so determined to become great warriors. Indeed, that is why the Amazons have great warriors in the first place. Because they all aspire to become strong.
Oh, really? Point out where they establish this "fact", please.Haki is the "chi" or "chakra" or whatever in One Piece.
This is an established fact now.
Just calling something an "established fact" doesn't make it so. Your rhetoric is really shitty, dude.
Last edited by poopdeville; Fri, 07-24-2009 at 12:54 PM.
"After all, I am strangely colored."
Raleigh was able to fight with Kizaru, and Logia user, because of his use of Haki. When Luffy fought Crocodile, the only time he could hit Crocodile, was when either one of them was wet. Not via Haki. If Luffy was using his Haki in the first 2 battles, why was Raleigh able to hit a Logia user, and not Luffy? The only conclusion we can draw from this, is either Luffy's Haki sucks, or he didn't use Haki.That last "therefore" simply does not follow from what you have established. All you have shown is that the Amazons are more skilled at ONE PARTICULAR "haki-using skill." I am saying that HAKI ISN'T A SKILL. I am saying that Haki is a reflection of a person's skill and determination. Luffy has his OWN haki, and it's called the King's Disposition, and he has shown it about a dozen times by now. Basically every time he's yelled while punching somebody out. (Crocodile, Enel, the Tenryubiito guy for example)
When Luffy fought Enel, he could hit Enel because Luffy is rubber, and Enel's natural enemy. If there was any Haki used in that battle, it was unnoticeable.
When Luffy fought Aokiji, and if he was using Haki in that battle, why was he unable to damage Aokiji? Again, why would Raleigh be able to do something like that with Haki, and yet Luffy not (assuming Luffy used Haki against Aokiji)? Again, the only two conclusions to draw from this battle, is either Luffy's haki is useless, or he didn't use it.
The Amazons using Haki time and time again in all of their attacks (or most of their attacks). Not only do they use it, the effects of it are clearly seen, and it is stated to be because of the Haki. Are the generic Amazons stronger, or more determined than Luffy, when Luffy fought Aokiji? Or Kuma? If what you are saying is true, with Haki simply reflecting a person's determination and skill, then you more or less saying that Amazons are stronger and more determined than Luffy.
Even Luffy's Haki having a specific name, meaning that it has been classified, proves that it isn't just determination. I mean, how the hell would you classify determination? Or is getting mad and hitting something really hard (what you claim Luffy's haki to be) something only Luffy can do? Or maybe everyone has the Kings Determination (The haki of "getting mad and hitting something"), every time they get mad and hit something.
I'm saying that relative to Luffy, in various points in the past story thus far, the Amazons have not been as strong or determined as Luffy, yet they use Haki better. I'm not saying they are weak, just they are weaker than Luffy.Also, it's pretty stupid to say that the Amazons are not "strong and determined" just because the strongest of them leave the island. They are a race of warriors, and they value strength above everything else. That is why they are so determined to become great warriors. Indeed, that is why the Amazons have great warriors in the first place. Because they all aspire to become strong.
Btw, I doubt Margaret is "determined" to kill Luff, when she fires her Haki arrows at him, seeing as how she has saved his life several times, and doesn't really seem like his enemy. Yet even with that lack of actual determination, her arrows are said to contain haki.
Attacks being said to contain Haki, and then said attacks are stronger, or different than before. Or maybe Haki removing a bomb off of someone's neck, or allowing damage to a Logia user, or splitting the sky, or knocking someone unconscious, or Haki being something that is even classified into different types. All of this makes Haki a skill to be used.Oh, really? Point out where they establish this "fact", please.
Don't you mean Ki?
You clearly don't know what "King's Disposition" is, which is a good thing cause it would be a spoiler to talk about it here.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
come on poop you have to recognize that as soon as the mention of inbuing a WEAPON with haki made it into somthing completley different than what it you think it means. You can no more imbue a weapon with your ambition than you can with love or anything else that is abstract. Previous to the showing of WEAPONS using haki i would have almost agreed with you, but now its clear its the "next step" in power. Just like for the marines i think in the future we will see many more "base" marines using techniques like soru such as coby and hippo.
But we dont even know if it IS the amazons who have imbued the arrows/bows with haki, it could have been somone else, kind of like a blessing from boa or somthing.
And i tend to be more interested in what somone else mentioned at this point in time.... what happens to kidd, law and all the other novas!
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