Spice and Wolf II

[Buffalobiian]

I sampled SFW's episode 02, and I have to say, neither SFW or Mazui stood out as being better or worse than the other.

On interesting difference (and perhaps the only significant one I picked up) was at Episode 02 - 15:14

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Mazui: She was only interested in unaltered tales, not modified ones from the Church's influence.

SFW: She tells the original tales, and doesn't alter them under the Church's influence.
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It'd be interesting to know which one, if either, is more correct, as it creates a subtle difference between her seeking the truth and preserving the truth.

Other comments I left out before:

1) Horo's red eyes - those were really powerful this episode, very effectively portraying Horo's unstable state.

2) Right before Lawrence left, Horo said "Sorry".

That makes things lean a bit more towards Shinta's line of thought, that she'd come to herself relatively soon.

[shinta|hikari]

The Mazui one is correct.

[KrayZ33]

would someone care to explain the scene with the letter, did I miss something in the last ep? Is her hometown destroyed? what happened to it

was it explained already or is this information included in the letter we didn't saw (yet) and Horo made her own conclusions about lawrence etc. because of it?

I mean it's a bit confusing, Lawrence didn't open the letter before he gave it to horo, yet she acts like he knows whats in it.

[animus]

Because she opened it herself and read it?

[David75]

would someone care to explain the scene with the letter, did I miss something in the last ep? Is her hometown destroyed? what happened to it

was it explained already or is this information included in the letter we didn't saw (yet) and Horo made her own conclusions about lawrence etc. because of it?

I mean it's a bit confusing, Lawrence didn't open the letter before he gave it to horo, yet she acts like he knows whats in it.

Lawrence remembered in the episodes before an old tale he was told when he was a kid about the Yoitsu village being destroyed or that it dissapeared.
He got that confirmed by the "witch".
He didn't know what to do with that piece of information, he probably should have told Horo long ago, but wasn't strong enough to chose and ends up in a mess.

On the other hand, I think Horo is a bit hard on him and I suspect her to know, deep inside, something is wrong about her home village... And she probably vented her fears on him through her anger.

[KrayZ33]

Lawrence remembered in the episodes before an old tale he was told when he was a kid about the Yoitsu village being destroyed or that it dissapeared.
He got that confirmed by the "witch".

ahh... rewatched ep2..

I didn't remember the witch's story fully.. only: "there was a big wolf at the town of Renose (or so) which came out of the nearby forest and said it was on a journey to the south"

Because she opened it herself and read it?

Ya but that alone wouldn't make her think that Lawrence knew about it
I had forgotten about the "the village that got destroyed by the moon hunting bear?"-part which explains everything

I was like "Why don't you tell Horo that you didn't know about that yourself, Lawrence" until now

it's fine now, I'm not confused anymore sry

btw David
do you remember in which episode Lawrance said that he heard an old tale about that village being destroyed before? (or at leas what happened in that episode so I can find it)
was it back during the first series?

I'm asking because I'd like to know whether he really "knew" (or at least guessed right) about that village's fate from the very beginning or not

[David75]

Honestly, my memory is crap at times. Could be sometime in S1.

[David75]

[Mazui]​_Spice​_and​_Wolf​_II​_-​_04​_[8C0EC1F6]​.mkv 271.88MiB

Seems like some tv people do not like their eps to leak out in the internet.

Market getapens is starting.

[Buffalobiian]

[Nipponsei] Spice and Wolf II OP Single - Mitsu no Yoake [Arai Akino].zip
[Nipponsei] Spice and Wolf II ED Single - Perfect World [ROCKY CHACK].zip

[Buffalobiian]

Mazui - Episode 5

[shinta|hikari]

What the hell is Holo doing?

If Holo doesn't have a damn good reason for hanging out with the furry-obsessed shota and showing off to Lawrence and everyone else, I will definitely be disappointed in her as a character. Something like trying to motivate Lawrence by lighting a fire on his ass should be good enough. I hope it doesn't involve cheating/trapping the smug kid though, since I want Lawrence to win fair and square (the maximum the circumstances permit, of course). I just hope it is not something selfishly emo on Holo's part.

I can't help but feel sorry for Lawrence. None of this is really his fault, yet he has to go through so much because of it.

I just hope this doesn't end with Lawrence losing, yet Holo still choosing to be with him. That would be the worst possible conclusion, with Lawrence losing the last shred of his pride. Losing, then being pitied, is worse than death.

[Buffalobiian]

What the hell is Holo doing?

If Holo doesn't have a damn good reason for hanging out with the furry-obsessed shota and showing off to Lawrence and everyone else, I will definitely be disappointed in her as a character. Something like trying to motivate Lawrence by lighting a fire on his ass should be good enough. I hope it doesn't involve cheating/trapping the smug kid though, since I want Lawrence to win fair and square (the maximum the circumstances permit, of course). I just hope it is not something selfishly emo on Holo's part.

I can't help but feel sorry for Lawrence. None of this is really his fault, yet he has to go through so much because of it.

I just hope this doesn't end with Lawrence losing, yet Holo still choosing to be with him. That would be the worst possible conclusion, with Lawrence losing the last shred of his pride. Losing, then being pitied, is worse than death.

I'm with you on every point.

These last few episodes have been pretty tense because I can't figure out what's going on in Horo's head. I'm hoping she's not giving up on Lawrence, but everything points otherwise.


The one funny moment in this episode was rather amusing. It shines some light on Lawrence's and Horo's sleeping habits.

[Kraco]

I have to join your chorus in wondering what exactly Horo is doing. The rival dude doesn't even know Horo is a wolf god in reality - actually doesn't know anything at all. It'd be pretty impulsive of Horo to suddenly switch to somebody like that's side. Yet, if this is just a game to force Lawrence to take a step forward in their relationship, it's truly an exceptionally cruel game not only for Lawrence but the rival dude as well.

This doesn't really feel like something a wise wolf should be doing.

[Yukimura]

If this is all some ploy to get Lawrence to commit or something then she'll be pretty much dead to me. I'm with shinta about feeling sorry for Lawrence, though I suspect I feel a lot sorrier for him overall. He rarely seems to get any credit for anything he does and now he's running around town bending over backwards trying to win Horo back, and for what? So she can continue treating him like a doormat? I know I should just rationalize their entire relationship as 'a masochist woos a sadist by trying to be the best sub he can be' but Lawrence's demeanor when he's not with Horo always make me forget that he's ultimately a masochist. I feel like he ought to be more than willing to say goodbye if she ever decides she doesn't want to hang around anymore

Horo is a free thinking entity and if she won't be happy unless Lawrence bends over backwards for her sake then I don't think Lawrence's plan should work. Bending over backwards after the fact feels really fake to m. The behavior seems artificial, induced by Horo's actions not Lawrence's own natural desires. If he wasn't bending over backwards enough for Horo to be satisfied before she pushed him into a corner then I'd say she should just leave and seek satisfaction elsewhere. His behavior now reeks more of desperation than a truly natural desire to be around her and make her happy. If he wins his 'wager' and she accepts that as evidence that he really does want her than it would make her rather cheap and pathetic in my eyes. I don't think you should try to build a relationship based on how far one member is willing to go when they are desperate to stay with the other. Unless that one member is prepared to remain desperate for the others happiness constantly that sort of thing probably won't end well.

It seems to me that Lawrence wants Horo much more than Horo wants Lawrence. Unless he's willing to completely dedicate his life to her happiness for the rest of his days there will be nothing to keep her from pulling something like this again the next time she decides to be insecure.

If she leaves does he get back the clothes he bought her, or would Amarty's bride price cover that too?

[shinta|hikari]

The bride price covers it, I think.

While I am perplexed by what is happening, this can still be resolved if after all his effort, Lawrence gets rewarded, not only by getting Holo, but also getting even, both with the whimsical wolf, and the stupid prince wannabe.

There needs to be an episode or two about a reverse situation where Holo is the one making effort to be with Lawrence, just to make their relationship go back to being equal.

[Buffalobiian]

There needs to be an episode or two about a reverse situation where Holo is the one making effort to be with Lawrence, just to make their relationship go back to being equal.

They sort of covered that last season with Nora, except Horo's so called "effort" was acting drunk and demanding Lawrence's attention.

Another thing that crossed my mind was if Amarty lost, whether he'd use his financial/status backing at home to force Lawrence and Horo apart somehow. He's the competitive type who wants to win, and given how much he seems to like Horo, he might even submit to his family to get her.

The one funny moment in this episode was rather amusing. It shines some light on Lawrence's and Horo's sleeping habits.

I left out the other one. Lawrence asking about human/deity mating seemed kind of random. He must be planning his next course of action after he wins.

[Kraco]

It just occurred to me that Horo might be really afraid and is doing this because she doesn't know what else to do. She saw that dream of choosing Lawrence but the man turning into nothing but bones. And now it's also more and more evident they might be nearing her village and thus the moment she would actually need to make that choice in practice. Maybe she's now pushing Lawrence away exactly because she loves him and doesn't want to go through the suffering of losing him inevitably later when she would love him even more.

Amarty might be nothing but a tool that suddenly presented itself to Horo for her illadviced, painful, and far too hastily constructed plan.

[Ryllharu]

They sort of covered that last season with Nora, except Horo's so called "effort" was acting drunk and demanding Lawrence's attention.

I thought they covered it less with her jealously over Lawrenece getting close to Nora, and more with Horo going back to rescue him in the icy rain. It was there more than anywhere that she faced losing him and put in the most effort she ever has to keep him. As terrified as Lawrence was about being sold into medieval slavery, Horo was not nearly as concerned until the wolves were involved.


I see Horo's current behavior as more of how she simply feels betrayed. She's started to open herself up, and go down to the level of a mortal in terms of her emotions. Horo has never been used to the emotions and attachments she feels toward Lawrence, or if she did in the past, she has forgotten about them. She overreacted, plain and simple.

Horo heard in his word that Lawrence thought she could get to her hometown on her own. We know that Lawrence believed she probably knew the way, so long as she got close. She just didn't know the general region. 'She's a wolf, she should be able to smell her way home, right?' Lawrence didn't know how fragile she's been lately because she never spoke of her recent dreams and fears. While Lawrence was thrilled to find out that he had a much greater chance of finding her home, he was filled with happiness at making what once was a hopeless quest for his human limitations (time, age, normal senses) was now a chance for him to continue on with her. The part of the legend that claimed her home destroyed didn't concern him, since he was quite familiar with how political forces will change the myth to serve them. After all, that's what Horo faced when they first met in her town. He was more concerned in finding out where it was, rather than be concerned whether or not it was still there. He was going to go with her regardless now that there was renewed hope.

Horo took it as something he knew about the whole time, and used that to fill in the gaps about all the other fears she had ever had about Lawrence. That he was spending so much time with Nora instead of Horo because he liked that sort of pitiable character, the same kind that Horo believed she had now become. That he was thinking of abandoning her because he knew it was a fruitless quest, rather than his actual thoughts that he'd never be able to cover so great an area in his lifetime. That his jokes about how much he cost her were actually serious.

The truth of the matter is that Lawrence doesn't like pitiable characters. The reason he admired Nora was because her life was terrible, but she was making the best of it anyway. He was repulsed by Horo's response that he should mate with her, not because he hadn't considered the idea (did he even think it was possible before he asked Deanna?), but because the reason she suddenly thought about it was because it would be a way for him to pity her, and make him stay with her.

It's just Horo overreacting to all the feelings she is suddenly aware of, and all the anxieties that she had been feeling as a result of them. She filled in all the gaps when she felt betrayed by the letter. It would not have happened if she had been around with Lawrence during his search for information, or if the two of them had read the letter together.

(If there are some inconsistencies in the above, I rewrote parts of it about 5 times as I reviewed the material.)


On another matter, I really like Deanna's character.

[shinta|hikari]

But why did she apologize after her outburst against Lawrence before? If she actually believed that Lawrence betrayed her, apologizing is the last thing she will do.

[Ryllharu]

I didn't take it as an apology for the outburst, but as a, "Sorry, I'd like to be alone."

He intended to comfort her, and she wouldn't allow him to.