One Piece Chapter 547

[poopdeville]

Yet, Luffy is distinctly classified as paramecia and Enel is distinctly classified as logia.

By who?

The only person who has said Luffy was a Paramecia was Enel, who didn't even know what rubber was. And Enel was demonstrably wrong about a lot of things. He saw Luffy stretch, claimed that was the limit to his power, and on that limited basis decided he was a Paramecia type. Of course, stretching is not the limit to his power. He is invulnerable to attacks that wouldn't hurt rubber. He can turn into a giant, by inflating his bones, he can pump his own blood faster than his heart lets him. And it is all because he is made out of rubber.

I am not saying Oda is wrong. I am saying I think Enel was wrong.

I think, under these circumstances, if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

[Assertn]

By who?

The only person who has said Luffy was a Paramecia was Enel, who didn't even know what rubber was. And Enel was demonstrably wrong about a lot of things. He saw Luffy stretch, claimed that was the limit to his power, and on that limited basis decided he was a Paramecia type. Of course, stretching is not the limit to his power. He is invulnerable to attacks that wouldn't hurt rubber. He can turn into a giant, by inflating his bones, he can pump his own blood faster than his heart lets him. And it is all because he is made out of rubber.

I am not saying Oda is wrong. I am saying I think Enel was wrong.

I think, under these circumstances, if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

uhh.....are you seriously going to tell me that Luffy is a logia user?

[Archangel]

uhh.....are you seriously going to tell me that Luffy is a logia user?

The element of rubber

[The Chancellor]

uhh.....are you seriously going to tell me that Luffy is a logia user?

I think that's what he's trying to say yeah lol. I'm going to have to go with AssertN on this one.

A) Rubber can't be found naturally in nature. It has to be manufactured. Even the tree it comes from doesn't have any rubber like properties.
B) Even though Luffy can take a lot of different kinds of damage from a lot of stuff. He can't piece his body together after it's been separated because well, he can't separate it like a logia user does.

And I know most of you are going to bust out Buggy against me, but it's not the same. When he gets sliced his body just separates. There isn't a natural element helping him reform a part of his body. And he can stay separated and can control the separation intentionally. When Kizaru got blown in half, his torso just followed suit and materialized to his legs forming his body again. When Aokiji gets an arm blown off, he can walk around while it regrows back on it's own. Buggy's and more over Luffy's arm can't be destroyed and reformed. That's the definition of a logia being practically unstoppable. The destruction, separation and reformation of the giving destroyed body part.

[poopdeville]

I asked a specific question: "What is the difference between a logia and a paramecia fruit?"

The question motivated by the fact that Luffy was granted powers not granted to anybody else in the class of paramecia users and otherwise only given to logia users. Most people only point to Enel when they affirm that Luffy is a paramecia, but he was demonstrably wrong about many aspects of Luffy's powers. It stands to reason he could be wrong about being a paramecia. Most people do not have better reasoning than merely pointing to Enel.

If Luffy is one giant lump of rubber, it would make sense that getting split in half would kill him (unlike, say, Crocodile, whose constituent particles would not be harmed by the split. However, if his sand itself was melted under high heat or otherwise destroyed, I suspect he would die. By the same token, Enel is just a giant lump of whizzing electrons. It would take an atom smasher to destroy his body, because you need to destroy the constituent parts)

Admittedly, your "was manufactured" argument does distinguish paramecia and logia users.

[Assertn]

I would probably also elaborate that the "rubber" of Luffy's ability could represent the texture of rubber, rather than any sort of specific rubber substance. Just like how Bellamy's spring fruit didn't physically turn him into a spring, but rather allowed him to have spring-like characteristics, you could argue that Luffy's ability allows him to have rubber-like characteristics.

[UChessmaster]

I agree with Assertn luffy has "Rubber-like" abilities, when he gets hit he doesn`t turns into actual rubber bits, thats what makes him paramecia, as for the he got diferent abilities than paramecia argument and is more logiaish type, i disagree there, paramecia essentially means it can be any random thing, maybe it comes with a pasive ability like luffy (ex. Albina) or maybe it doesnt (ex. Door guy from cp9), maybe you can do all random kind of attacks (ex. Moria) maybe its only good for one thing (ex. Bellamy), maybe you can pull a transformation out of it (Ex. Luffy, Moria again), maybe you dont (Ex. Buggy)

[The Chancellor]

Bellamy's spring fruit didn't physically turn him into a spring

No but it did allow him to physically turn his legs into springs. And that's all that fruit was meant to do. Luffy's is meant to turn him into rubber. Does that mean if you cut open aokiji or Crocodile their body parts will be made of ice and sand? No, but that just means they're true logias. As soon as you start slicing, the part that was cut away will just regrow back.

[Augury]

I asked a specific question: "What is the difference between a logia and a paramecia fruit?"

Different paramecia fruits operate differently, and discussing certain paramecias' similarities to logia doesn't really answer the question. The rule Oda has used is:

Physical attacks pass through a logia user's body.
Physical attacks do not pass through a paramecia user's body.

Both paramecia and logia may be vulnerable to certain non-physical attacks that is dependent on each individual fruit.

The noted exception to this is Blackbeard, who states that his logia is different from other logia fruits because physical attacks do not pass through his body.

[The Chancellor]

Physical attacks pass through a logia user's body.
Physical attacks do not pass through a paramecia user's body.

That's another thing I didn't bring up. The fact that they have to pass through the users body and not do harm to them. Yeah blackbeard is one exception. I think he'll be the only one in the series though.

Another thing simply is, if you can find it naturally in nature then it's bound to become a logia fruit down the road in the series.

Although there are some I don't think we'll ever get:

rock
wood
water (although I think that Aokiji kind of took care of this one)
dirt?
lava (this might be another that's hard to tell because it's not really an element)

There are a lot of elements left. But I don't know whats to come. It should be interesting.

[Death13a]

Logia user can reform or fuse with their element. That how logia user regenerate by using their element nearby and making it part of their body. Paramecia can't use external elements to repair their damage.

Blackbeard's ability is to nullify person's fruit power on direct contact, which means he nullifies his own ability to regenerate/fuse with darkness .

Brook's revive-revive fruit allowed his soul to comeback from dead in a body, i wonder did it had to be his own body or anyone else?. Can he call back others back too from dead, and revive-revive fruit is not completely paramecia or logia, it keeps Brook from separating his soul from body but it just basic function, I kinda hope he can separate from his body and possess anyone's body even for few minutes, revive dead people(scripted plot-hole).

[FireEmblem]

Logia user can reform or fuse with their element. That how logia user regenerate by using their element nearby and making it part of their body. Paramecia can't use external elements to repair their damage.

Blackbeard's ability is to nullify person's fruit power on direct contact, which means he nullifies his own ability to regenerate/fuse with darkness .

Brook's revive-revive fruit allowed his soul to comeback from dead in a body, i wonder did it had to be his own body or anyone else?. Can he call back others back too from dead, and revive-revive fruit is not completely paramecia or logia, it keeps Brook from separating his soul from body but it just basic function, I kinda hope he can separate from his body and possess anyone's body even for few minutes, revive dead people(scripted plot-hole).

See now that's actually an interesting thought. Especially because Brook is currently on an island where they do rituals of some sort, it could be completely possible that he may learn something like, whether it's meant to be that way or by mistake. An ability like that would be a stepping stone for the Strawhats to catapult into one of the top crews of the New World.

Since we're speaking of abilities, I was thinking of what Kuma's paw teleportation required or worked on. Since we know that Moria said he knew how it worked, and that it wouldn't do him any good or something. I was thinking, that particular ability works based on what the user is thinking, based on Moria's comment, and the fact that Perona was sent to a dark and gloomy place near a castle, just like she was thinking. So my guess is that Kuma might not have sent the Strawhats to specific locations of his choosing, but rather their primary thoughts during their encounter with Kizaru, Sentoumaru, and the PX's was to "get stronger". At least that's the only way I can think of Moria's comment making sense, unless he knows some other way of countering it. Since he could easily keep his mind focused on Thriller Bark and the teleport would be null/useless.

[Assertn]

Since we're speaking of abilities, I was thinking of what Kuma's paw teleportation required or worked on. Since we know that Moria said he knew how it worked, and that it wouldn't do him any good or something. I was thinking, that particular ability works based on what the user is thinking, based on Moria's comment, and the fact that Perona was sent to a dark and gloomy place near a castle, just like she was thinking. So my guess is that Kuma might not have sent the Strawhats to specific locations of his choosing, but rather their primary thoughts during their encounter with Kizaru, Sentoumaru, and the PX's was to "get stronger". At least that's the only way I can think of Moria's comment making sense, unless he knows some other way of countering it. Since he could easily keep his mind focused on Thriller Bark and the teleport would be null/useless.

When did Moria say that he knew how Kuma's ability worked? Also, why would Luffy be thinking about amazon women? More importantly, why would Sanji be thinking about transvestites??

Besides, Sentoumaru already said that only Kuma knows where the destination lies.

[Death13a]

The reason why Kuma's ability won't work on Moria because Moria can change places with his shadow so Moria will just be coming back.

[Archangel]

The reason why Kuma's ability won't work on Moria because Moria can change places with his shadow so Moria will just be coming back.

...?

1) Kuma sends Moria to Hell

2) Moria exchanges places with his shadow

3) Kuma sends him to hell again

4) Both Moria and his shadow are now in hell

[Death BOO Z]

he can always transport his shadow back to him, so unless both him and his shadow are in the same place in some unlikely easily-avoidable situation, Kuma's air travel ability is pretty pointless.

[FireEmblem]

When did Moria say that he knew how Kuma's ability worked? Also, why would Luffy be thinking about amazon women? More importantly, why would Sanji be thinking about transvestites??

Besides, Sentoumaru already said that only Kuma knows where the destination lies.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/474/10-11/

I kinda took that to mean that he knew how it worked.

And what I meant was that the Strawhats were thinking of how to get stronger, so Kuma's ability automatically teleported them to the places where they would get stronger, but if it's true that he already knows their destinations before doing it, then that debunks my theory!

[Archangel]

he can always transport his shadow back to him, so unless both him and his shadow are in the same place in some unlikely easily-avoidable situation, Kuma's air travel ability is pretty pointless.

Did you see Kuma's speed? More importantly, did you see Moria's speed?

I always thought that Moria was one hell of a weak Shichibukai but opinions aside, he wouldn't last 5 second should Kuma be serious

[FireEmblem]

We know that Moria overdid it to his own demise though in Thriller Bark by consuming 1000 shadows. It wouldn't be too much to assume that he could take in 100 shadows with ease. Or if he was pickier with his shadows and was prepared for a fight of that caliber with Kuma, he would stand a better chance than what we saw in Thriller Bark.

[The Chancellor]

I know one thing. After this little production, Luffy's bounty is going to be easily be in the billions