Naruto Chapter 442

[FireEmblem]

Well, I don't know if it was mentioned in the on-going argument, but without Jiraiya's sacrifice/information, to Konoha/Naruto, Pain wouldn't have been perceived as what he is right now. Instead of it being 6 "bodies" with 1 specific ability each, it'd be 6 Akatsuki's attacking Konoha. That completely changes the game, strategically.

Knowing that each Pain can only do one thing is a huge strategic advantage. Would they have figured that out eventually? Probably. But Konoha has managed to dodge complete annihilation by having this information BEFORE the attack started.

[Archangel]

Naruto threw 5 rasen-shurrikens and only one actually killed a pain body. That's kinda depressing

Yeah. Talk about flashy and ineffective...

I'm sorry but that's just complaining for the sake of complaining

Not one of the rasenshurikens thrown were useless, every single one was either an attack or bait to redirect pain's attention from a less flashy but still very effective attack that would eventually take out one of his bodies

If all the bodies had been killed using that jutsu you'd be complaining on how naruto always used the same move or how his style of fighting was as retarded as ever...

[shinta|hikari]

Yeah. Talk about flashy and ineffective...

[poopdeville]

How many wicked kage level moves did the Third use on Orochimaru? How many of them killed Orochimaru?

[Abdula]

Its a shame Nagato's body is in such bad condition though, I would have liked to see what he can do. I doubt this is the end of the rinnegan though, or I hope it isn't.

[ruccus]

So no one thinks that he could reject Hinata himself?
Way I see it happening, he wont say okay because he would feel guilty having a happy life over Sakura. In all honesty I dont care much for how this ends, cuz the manga's good once again.

[Patriot]

Actually, I think because of her lineage, Hinata will be forced to marry someone that the Hiyaga clan decides in order to thrawt a war. And at first the other guy will seem like a jerk but then will come out shinning stars and making Hinata like him for who he is. This is all the more required as Leaf will need their current allies to support them and in search of new allies create meaningful bonds.

That's my theory on that subject.

[FireEmblem]

Actually, I think because of her lineage, Hinata will be forced to marry someone that the Hiyaga clan decides in order to thrawt a war. And at first the other guy will seem like a jerk but then will come out shinning stars and making Hinata like him for who he is. This is all the more required as Leaf will need their current allies to support them and in search of new allies create meaningful bonds.

That's my theory on that subject.

Remember when Naruto said he'd change the Hyuga when he became Hokage?

I do.

[Abdula]

Well that was an exercise in futility.

[Abdula]

*sigh*

That wasn't Jiraiya, was it? Whose information were we talking about? Jiraiya's? Or the Frog's? The only information Jiraiya gave was in his secret message to Konoha.

Pandadice, I think the only reason you and Poopdeville don't understand what I posted is because, for some reason, you two are differentiating between the information Jiraiya gathered and the information the toads gave to Konoha and there is no difference. Jiraiya didn't just send the code, he gave Konoha one of Pain's bodies to examine, sent them a live rain nin to interrogate and then had the toads relay all the other information he had gathered about Pain. So while the toads may have been the ones who actually delivered the information, the credit still goes back to Jiraiya because they would have had nothing to deliver if not for him.

[poopdeville]

Let's not forget that Jiraiya could have run away to fight another day -- accomplishing most of the goals Abdula was "correcting" me about -- but decided to sacrifice himself to get Pein's secret, which he wrote on Pa's back.

I never said Jiraiya's mission was worthless. But his sacrifice was, because the intentions he stated turned out to be irrelevant in Naruto's fight against Pein.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/381/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/381/11/

[Narasho]

Let's not forget that Jiraiya could have run away to fight another day -- accomplishing most of the goals Abdula was "correcting" me about -- but decided to sacrifice himself to get Pein's secret, which he wrote on Pa's back.

I never said Jiraiya's mission was worthless. But his sacrifice was, because the intentions he stated turned out to be irrelevant in Naruto's fight against Pein.

Pein isn't defeated yet. Do you think Kishi won't go back to the code written on the Frog's back, after setting it up like that? I really find that hard to believe. Shikamaru will solve it, and it will do something to aid their cause. I just can't see the author setting Jiraiya to die thinking he had discovered the secret, and then having it end up being nothing at all.

[Assertn]

Also, thanks to Jiraiya's recon, Naruto knew to cover the fat pain's eyes so he could drop a rasengan down on the respawner pain without them expecting it.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Pein isn't defeated yet. Do you think Kishi won't go back to the code written on the Frog's back, after setting it up like that? I really find that hard to believe. Shikamaru will solve it, and it will do something to aid their cause. I just can't see the author setting Jiraiya to die thinking he had discovered the secret, and then having it end up being nothing at all.

Umm, they already did solve it. They know that the real one is not with them. Naruto asked to talk to the real person in this very chapter. A few chapters back, Shika and his crew when looking for Nagato as well. So I would say that the cat is out of the bag.

[rawez]

Some people seem to be harping on Jiraiya's message being worthless, or not used, or not effecting the fight. Without his message about the real one not being there, would naruto or any of the konoha ninjas even consider the thought that there's a real pein out in the mountains controlling the other bodies. Probably not. They'd fight the 6 bodies, knowing that each had 1 ability, they had shared vision, there's a delay between god realms ability, but after all 6 were destroyed they'd think they had won and that pein was dead.

Jiraiya's message changed the fight in so much as that they would know killing the 6 bodies isn't enough.

[Patriot]

He realized that the "real one was not with them" when one of the Pein's bodies ran head into his shield and was killed. At that point, he also came to the realization that he would not just be able to get up and run away. But I dispute that theory due to the revalation of reverse summoning.

I love this debate and both sides have great points. I actually see the logic that both sides are following. Great debaters on both sides.

[Pandadice]

okay, that's good enough for me. with the knowledge that it's a puppet-like jutsu, that means they'll look for the real pain. i hope the real one doesn't go down too easily, though with that frail looking body i don't expect much.