Bleach 212

[Artris]

It's not like all the people there were Aizen's puppets. Rukia's totally out of proportion sentence didn't mean anything to him, not even when a portion of the captains went against it. The oldest among the captains, no less. Anyway, Aizen's plots have been running under his nose for more than a century and he didn't have a clue at all. The man is an idiot. I don't know why you try to defend him. I'm sure he would be a jolly good commander as long as the only enemies are consistently ugly hollows and the only inside trouble is drunken disorderly behavior.

I actually forgot about the few captains who did see through it: that's a very valid point. I'm not too quick to defend old man Yama, but I don't think it comes down to a matter of intelligence as much as the chain of command. Yama follows the orders of Central 46, at least in matters such as Rukia's predicament. He may not like it, but his responsibility is to enforce it. He may very well make inquiries, or question Central 46 on their decision, but he wouldn't do it openly. You should also consider that, perhaps, Yama has been more of a target for Aizen's powers since he is in a position of power. Why would Aizen go after one of the other captains directly, unless they got in his way? Finally, I should mention that the other captains interfering may very well have been part of his plans.

As for the disparity of sentences, both sentences served Aizen well. Aizen wouldn't want Kisuke dead, once he knew Kisuke was conduction holofication research, and Aizen wanted Rukia burned to a char, since there was no risk in that method to losing the square shiny, willful holofication thingamajig.

I think people are underestimating the power of Aizen's zanpaktou. Another possibility is that Yama is actually working for Aizen, as crazy as that may seem. I mean, the mans old as dirt and still hasn't been promoted to king's guard. He could hold a grudge, I suppose.

[Kraco]

He certainly was working for Aizen - unknowingly, of course. He was the perfect kind of a commander for an insidious villain in the shadows: He always did what the textbook said, never questioned orders (from Central 46), and most likely trusted his first impressions of people until contrary evidence is piled so high he can't anymore see the tip of his own nose. I guess the perfect opposite of Shinji who was too suspicious, yet the same in the one detail that mattered the most to Aizen: Completely predictable.

[Anime1215]

What I don't understand is at the end of the episode when Shinji saids that he owns a lot to Kisuke and Aizen. What did Aizen do that benefit the Vizards witht he exception of a new enhance powers ?

[digitalrurouni]

What I don't understand is at the end of the episode when Shinji saids that he owns a lot to Kisuke and Aizen. What did Aizen do that benefit the Vizards witht he exception of a new enhance powers ?

I dont think they meant in a good way. They probably did when it comes to Urahara being that he tried to cure them and it looks like stabilized their Hollow forms...and also kept them from being slaughtered by Soul Society...but not in the case of Aizen.

[sl00ke]

what he meant by "by owe alot" is that its payback time!

[DarthEnderX]

I'm sorry, no, the only power Aizen has is that he makes completely believable illusions. He doesn't CONTROL their minds. I'm sorry, but your gonna render your decision on something as important as 4 captains dying on the fact that people saw someone who looked like Aizen at the time of the crime? Yeah, that MIGHT be acceptable in the real world, but in a world were everyone has unique magic powers you are RETARDED to make decisions like that in 15 seconds like room 46 did.

I think that's always one of the most infuriating plot devices there is. The "court room where the defendant doesn't get to defend himself". It's one thing when the people running the court are evil, and know the defending is innocent and are trying to railroad him, it's another thing entirely when the people running the court are just dicks and would rather yell at them rather that give them the facts.

That scene is literally, "Aizen says you did it and lots of people saw Aizen so EXILES AND EXECUTIONS FOR EVERYONE! YAAR! NO TALKING!!"

The non-retarded response would have been, "Hmm, okay, the evidence seems to point to Aizen being right, but why don't you give us your story? Hmm, doesn't sound very believable, but before I make any irreversible decisions, I'll have some of the Squads investigate it. In the meantime of course, I'll have to imprison the two of you, and the hollow captains. Just to be on the safe side, I should probably take Aizen, Gin and Tousen off duty for the moment as well."

[Kraco]

The non-retarded response would have been, "Hmm, okay, the evidence seems to point to Aizen being right, but why don't you give us your story? Hmm, doesn't sound very believable, but before I make any irreversible decisions, I'll have some of the Squads investigate it. In the meantime of course, I'll have to imprison the two of you, and the hollow captains. Just to be on the safe side, I should probably take Aizen, Gin and Tousen off duty for the moment as well."

If they had done such a thing, they would have needed to change the label from shounen to seinen...

[Artris]

Totally agree with you there, Darthender. Yet I wonder if we can apply our value system to SS. Death in SS is just being born in the real world. Now, from the stand point of finding out what is going on, Central 46 doesn't seem to give a shit, or they are just totally whacked out by Aizen's power.

Aizen's power isn't just creating illusion, but creating an illusion so complete that you have to be directly opposed to it in order to escape it (I believe this to be the case at least: look what he did to his vice captain, and the other vice captain). Were Central 46 to be suspicious of Kisuke in the first place, what defense would they have to such an illusion? All they know is that Kisuke was someplace he wasn't supposed to be, against the orders of the first captain, and that a bunch of other captains had been experimented on. Add that to the fact that he just opened up the Tech. part of the 12th squad, and why would they research further if they know the truth, beyond a doubt, magnified by Aizen's power? Who knows what Aizen did to them: he had all night to come up with a counter.

More likely the writer is just lazy, but this is my take on it without calling the ruling council of SS 'tards.

[Abdula]

Really Artris, I don't know why you keep pushing the Aizen thing. All Aizen did was give himself an alibi and SS's retarded judicial system took care of the rest. This is hardly any different from Byakuya just letting Rukia get executed simply for the sake of following the rules. It appears that back then no one questioned anything, everyone just did what they were told and followed the rules, and anyone who so much as voiced their own opinion was considered "a dangerous element" and detained in the Maggots' nest.

[Artris]

I don't know, I just feel like its not black and white. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that you are right though, that the rules in SS are rather extreme and unforgiving. Frankly if all it took was an alibi for Aizen to get out of that, then everyone in control is really lacking in the thought department. Perhaps it comes down to stagnation. I mean, these people have been doing what they do... forever I suppose. Personally I would hope it took a bit more effort on his part.

Either way its always fun discussing such topics, because they make people think. I mean, if we just accepted what such and such said as truth, without question, then we wouldn't be far from the extreme that is SS.

[FaramirRat]

I've been reading these forums for awhile now and I had to post my thought on this arc. I do agree that room 46 are retards and the captains that did not question them are also but in japan back in the soul society "era" it was you either do what your commanded and follow the rules or you get locked up or killed. Which brings me to the point of how this arc betrayed Soul Society. This arc was showing how soul society is evil or corrupt via when they showed and explained the magots lair and why they were there and how they were treated. Also showing how room 46 controlled soul society and made there decisions. Although aizen is evil and doing evil things just so he can be "King" he is also making the captains and the people who now control soul society to think about how it was ran and how soul society is corrupt in its own way. Such as we've seen how Ichigo, some captains and company think about there rules and how its being ran. As Artis said "The extreme that is SS".

[David75]

Started bleach not too long ago, already at ep 212.

From Kisuke's perspective, or anyone in SS, the answer to Kisuke's argument that Aizen did the hollowifcation was:
"124 normal people and 1 captain saw him"

How come you already know that answer with so many people if it wasn't forged just for you?

I'll catch up tomorrow evening, it's too late to watch 3 more eps with a new work day starting in less than 7 hours.