Bleach 210

[kmkze04]

That is not the origin of Ichigo's hollow powers though, by that point Ichigo was already a Vizard he just didn't know it yet. Remember after being attacked by Byakuya back when they first met, Ichigo actually became human and Urahara intentionally turned Ichigo into a hollow, and consequently a vizard in order for him to get his shinigami powers back. It was only after having his little talk with Zangetsu, which in hindsight I guess was him suppressing his inner hollow, did he get his sword back. So I guess whether they can use their zanpakuto or not depends on how far along in the process they are.

Ah I see where you're going with this. That is all true, except I think that Urahara did not intentionally turn him into a hollow. Ichigo went too long in the hole and consequently began transforming into a hollow. It seems pretty clear so far that Urahara does not know much about the Vizard process, otherwise he would have closer ties with the Vizard in Karakura, and he would have been able to train Ichigo in suppressing/controlling the inner hollow as well.
And even though Ichigo did come out of the hole with a mask, I think it is incorrect to say he was a Vizard. Up until he actually confronted the inner hollow, he was randomly taken over by the hollow completely unlike what the current arc shows.
What I mean is, like Darth said, the H-cap and H-vice cap seem to have no speech power. Yet, when Ichigo was taken by the hollow in arcs before he actually trained with the Vizard, Ichigo did not assume the shape of a hollow like Kensei or Mashiro, and he was also capable of speech and swordsmanship.

[NeoCybercoin]

Well they do not have a hollow hole in their chest or any other spot so you could say they are not hollow. I think it's best to say that they are not 3/4 Hollow and 1/4 Shinigami. If Viazard is 50 Shinigami/50 Hollow with their mask on. If they could shift that line further down the road of Hollow then wouldn't they appear like Kensei and Mashiro do now? Even stronger but still not fully Hollow?

So my theory would be that since they are now more Hollow then Shinigami they don't have their Zanpaktou anymore and lost their human mind.

[Kraco]

There hasn't been a single moment during this show Urahara would have told (or otherwise indicated) others everything he knows. He's a man of myriad secrets and a jolly good poker face. I have no doubt whatsoever he knew what happened to Ichigo, and could have also helped Ichigo - as much as anybody who is not himself a vaizard could have ever helped him. However, Ichigo doesn't want to rely on him (can't blame him; it seems in any agreement with Urahara there's always a catch).

[Abdula]

Ah I see where you're going with this. That is all true, except I think that Urahara did not intentionally turn him into a hollow. Ichigo went too long in the hole and consequently began transforming into a hollow. It seems pretty clear so far that Urahara does not know much about the Vizard process, otherwise he would have closer ties with the Vizard in Karakura, and he would have been able to train Ichigo in suppressing/controlling the inner hollow as well.

I agree with Kraco, Urahara always knows a great deal more than he lets on and I'm not saying he isn't willing to help others but all his actions seem to be motivated by self interest. Just look at the whole SS arc for example, he hid the Hogyoku in Rukia and made her use a gigai that would slowly drain away her shinigami powers and make her into a human just to protect his little invention and all the while he was acting under the guise of trying to help her get her powers back when he was doing just the opposite. Then when Aizen figured out the the Hogyoku was in Rukia and had her brought back to SS, Urahara made Ichigo into a vaizard in order for him to get his powers back and sent him to SS to rescue Rukia and bring her back to the real world when really all he wanted to do was make sure that he got the Hogyoku back. Urahara is no less devious than Aizen is and I think you're greatly underestimating him.

And even though Ichigo did come out of the hole with a mask, I think it is incorrect to say he was a Vizard. Up until he actually confronted the inner hollow, he was randomly taken over by the hollow completely unlike what the current arc shows.
What I mean is, like Darth said, the H-cap and H-vice cap seem to have no speech power. Yet, when Ichigo was taken by the hollow in arcs before he actually trained with the Vizard, Ichigo did not assume the shape of a hollow like Kensei or Mashiro, and he was also capable of speech and swordsmanship.

He didn't assume the shape of a hollow and he still had his zanpakuto and that just proves that he was already a vaizard. Ichigo was a vaizard from the time he got his powers back, Ichigo was just very weak so his inner hollow was very weak which is why as Ichigo progressively became stronger the mask started appearing more and more until the hollow became strong enough to take control of Ichigo's body when he was fighting Byakuya. The vaizard didn't make Ichigo into a vaizard if that is what you're trying to suggest, Ichigo was a vaizard long before then. Even when Shinji first met Ichigo, he told him he should stop trying to be a shinigami and join with the Vaizards because he was already one of them. The only thing the Vaizards did was teach Ichigo how to control his inner hollow so he could use his mask at will.

[DarthEnderX]

While I'm sure he was fully aware of what Ichigo had become, I'm still not convinced that he intentionally made Ichigo into a Vizard.



Also, I find it weird that we haven't seen Ichigo's dad anywhere in these flashbacks.

[Kraco]

Also, I find it weird that we haven't seen Ichigo's dad anywhere in these flashbacks.

Actually, if you think about it, Ichigo is the oldest child yet not too old and Ichigo's dad also knows Ishida's dad, so we could deduce he hasn't been in the material world for that long. Especially if we assume he didn't loiter around aimlessly before getting into business.

I don't actually remember if we learned anything about him, but maybe he got replaced by Hitsugaya, for example, and thus this history we have been seeing now is too old for him.

[Vorlath]

The fact that Urahara is the most knowledgeable about creating portals to Hueco Mundo seems to indicate that he knows more than he's letting on. Ok, Aizen may know just as much or more. But with Urahara starting the Technology Research Department, it all seems to point toward him experimenting with some stuff.

Wonder if the Vizard/Ichigo connection will be explained through Urahara. That's a big realization.

And yeah, kick ass episode. But could someone explain to me why the number 69? Seems like a strange choice for a number.

[Janusz]

What I don't understand is how the captain of Kidou corps ends up as Urahara's servant.

I agree with Kraco, Urahara always knows a great deal more than he lets on and I'm not saying he isn't willing to help others but all his actions seem to be motivated by self interest. Just look at the whole SS arc for example, he hid the Hogyoku in Rukia and made her use a gigai that would slowly drain away her shinigami powers and make her into a human just to protect his little invention and all the while he was acting under the guise of trying to help her get her powers back when he was doing just the opposite. Then when Aizen figured out the the Hogyoku was in Rukia and had her brought back to SS, Urahara made Ichigo into a vaizard in order for him to get his powers back and sent him to SS to rescue Rukia and bring her back to the real world when really all he wanted to do was make sure that he got the Hogyoku back. Urahara is no less devious than Aizen is and I think you're greatly underestimating him.

If you had actually been paying attention you would have noticed that they said Urahara tried, but couldn't destroy the Hogyoku. Therefore, he hid it in a gigai that would drain a shinigami's powers, thereby making the Hogyoku unfindable. Which is as near as destroying it as you can get. He then gave this gigai to Rukia. Unfortunately, Aizen, who was after the Hogyoku, found her before she lost her powers completely. He then wanted Rukia executed so he could get his hands on the Hogyoku and take over the world (muhahaha). So Urahara sent Ichigo after her. To save the world. Not to serve his self interests. Unless you want to argue that by saving the world he is serving his self interests (although that is technically true).

[kmkze04]

What I don't understand is how the captain of Kidou corps ends up as Urahara's servant.



If you had actually been paying attention you would have noticed that they said Urahara tried, but couldn't destroy the Hogyoku. Therefore, he hid it in a gigai that would drain a shinigami's powers, thereby making the Hogyoku unfindable. Which is as near as destroying it as you can get. He then gave this gigai to Rukia. Unfortunately, Aizen, who was after the Hogyoku, found her before she lost her powers completely. He then wanted Rukia executed so he could get his hands on the Hogyoku and take over the world (muhahaha). So Urahara sent Ichigo after her. To save the world. Not to serve his self interests. Unless you want to argue that by saving the world he is serving his self interests (although that is technically true).

Well first, Tessai isn't Urahara's servant. You can see from the flashback that they have been friends for awhile. Tessai seems to just freely follow Urahara, and is isn't like Urahara gives him commands or anything.

And Urahara does not hide the Hougyoku in a gigai. He hid it inside Rukia's soul.

I will agree with everyone else though on the point that Urahara does hide a huge amount of knowledge. He probably knows much more about the Vizard than he lets on.

[Abdula]

What I don't understand is how the captain of Kidou corps ends up as Urahara's servant.
If you had actually been paying attention you would have noticed that they said Urahara tried, but couldn't destroy the Hogyoku. Therefore, he hid it in a gigai that would drain a shinigami's powers, thereby making the Hogyoku unfindable. Which is as near as destroying it as you can get. He then gave this gigai to Rukia. Unfortunately, Aizen, who was after the Hogyoku, found her before she lost her powers completely. He then wanted Rukia executed so he could get his hands on the Hogyoku and take over the world (muhahaha). So Urahara sent Ichigo after her. To save the world. Not to serve his self interests. Unless you want to argue that by saving the world he is serving his self interests (although that is technically true).

Wow, you really should make sure you have all your facts straight before you accuse anyone of not paying attention, especially me. Anyway everything I mentioned above is a fact, with the exception of Urahara intentionally turning Ichigo into a vaizard because that is just my opinion, regardless the end result was still the same.

And like kmkze04 said, the captian of the Kido corps is not Urahara's servant, they were obviously friends in SS and they just live together now, not unlike Urahara and Yoruichi. Unless you think Yoruichi is his servant too.

[Nadouku]

But could someone explain to me why the number 69? Seems like a strange choice for a number.

Well, the only explanation I can think of is 6 is 9 when 6 is pulled down and 9 is 6 when 9 is pulled up, so 69 would be 96, and vice versa. Probably looked "cool" in Kensei's opinion.

[DarthEnderX]

I know nobody else agrees with me but I think still don't think the hole is when Ichigo became a Vizard.

So Uruhara put this thing in Rukia that makes shinigami/hollow hybrids.

Ichigo gets his Shinigami powers from Rukia.

I still hold to the theory that the Hougyeku "leaked" and tainted the powers Ichigo took from Rukia with hollow powers as well.

[lelouch]

Actually, if you think about it, Ichigo is the oldest child yet not too old and Ichigo's dad also knows Ishida's dad, so we could deduce he hasn't been in the material world for that long. Especially if we assume he didn't loiter around aimlessly before getting into business.

I don't actually remember if we learned anything about him, but maybe he got replaced by Hitsugaya, for example, and thus this history we have been seeing now is too old for him.

I don't understand how this history is too old for Ichigo's dad when Hiyori was just a kid back then and is still a kid now. Then again Byakuya was just a kid then and is an adult now... The aging process in Bleach confuses me.

[Kraco]

I don't understand how this history is too old for Ichigo's dad when Hiyori was just a kid back then and is still a kid now. Then again Byakuya was just a kid then and is an adult now... The aging process in Bleach confuses me.

... Meaning the visible ages of the characters have got nothing to do with the time passing in Bleach. Which means it has very little to do with what I said. What I meant is that one possibility why we didn't see Ichigo's old man in this flashback is that he wasn't back then in a visible enough position. Maybe he was a seated officer, made captain (he was a captain, right?) only after the dust has settled from this incident.

Of course the other possibility is that he left already before all this. Though that would mean he spent a century in exile doing little before getting to know Ishida's dad and starting a family. I deem that a bit more unlikely, though not impossible. You could theorize that due to his special nature he might have neeeded a quincy doctor to have offspring and got to know Ishida's dad at that point...

[Janusz]

Well first, Tessai isn't Urahara's servant. You can see from the flashback that they have been friends for awhile. Tessai seems to just freely follow Urahara, and is isn't like Urahara gives him commands or anything.

And Urahara does not hide the Hougyoku in a gigai. He hid it inside Rukia's soul.

I will agree with everyone else though on the point that Urahara does hide a huge amount of knowledge. He probably knows much more about the Vizard than he lets on.

Maybe I shouldn't have said 'servant' but 'assistant' -- it doesn't matter, he acts more or less on Urahara's orders in the real world; he works at the shop and Urahara is the owner.

You're correct about Urahara hiding the Hogyoku in Rukia's soul, but that is irrelevant to the point I was making. Doesn't matter how or where he hid it, he didn't do it out of self interest but the prevent Aizen from getting his hands on it.

... Meaning the visible ages of the characters have got nothing to do with the time passing in Bleach. Which means it has very little to do with what I said. What I meant is that one possibility why we didn't see Ichigo's old man in this flashback is that he wasn't back then in a visible enough position. Maybe he was a seated officer, made captain (he was a captain, right?) only after the dust has settled from this incident.

Of course the other possibility is that he left already before all this. Though that would mean he spent a century in exile doing little before getting to know Ishida's dad and starting a family. I deem that a bit more unlikely, though not impossible. You could theorize that due to his special nature he might have neeeded a quincy doctor to have offspring and got to know Ishida's dad at that point...

LOL @ quincy fertility doctor.
I agree, in my opinion it is now most likely that he was made captain after this incident - after all, it looks like they'll be in need of a lot of captains very soon.

And yeah, kick ass episode. But could someone explain to me why the number 69? Seems like a strange choice for a number.

It could mean a shitload of things. Maybe Kubo liked "If 6 was 9" by Jimi Hendrix. Or maybe he likes position 69. Maybe it doesn't really mean anything, just like 42 doesn't really mean anything.

[Anime1215]

Or maybe Ichigo's dad is the 11th division captain and just didn't take an interest to the incident ?

[DarthEnderX]

From what I gathered, Zaraki probably recently became the 11th captain. He just killed the previous captain, so he's technically the 11th squad's captain. But he's still pretty much a thug, so the Captain-Commander probably doesn't have him attend meetings or do missions yet until he can try and straighten him out some.