I'm drawing a blank, you'll have to give me some examplesOriginally Posted by Archangel
I'm drawing a blank, you'll have to give me some examples
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
The first time naruto summoned the frog boss and the first time the cloak came out during his fight with sasuke would be such examples
He didn't even know he had those powers but the kyuubi came out on its own since his life was in danger and gave them to him
No. Those were all times where he was already actively drawing on the Kyuubi's power not the Kyuubi acting of its own free will. For example the first time Naruto summoned Gamabunta, we saw that scene where Naruto was actually begging for more of the Kyuubi's power. Again when he was fighting Sasuke he was already using the Kyuubi's chakra aka fox cloak he just didn't have enough power and was still being overpowered by the Sasuke so the Kyuubi just gave him more power. Neither of those are times where the Kyuubi's is acting independent of Naruto's will and from what we saw when Naruto met Sasuke again, it doesn't appear that the Kyuubi can do anything without Naruto's permission that is why the seal is there in the first place.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
How could he be calling upon a power that he didn't even know he had?
The one to make the first move in both those cases was always the kyuubi, and in the second case it didn't even need naruto's permission supposedly because he was already so messed up and unconscious
Naruto drawing in more Natural energy now that he is imobile makes more sense to me. Basically, he can try to overload that guy trying to suck his energy in. As for the Fox charka, I don't think we will see that in this fight. Its suppose to be a new era in Naruto, to go to the Kyubi chakra would be like taking 1 step forward and the 2 step backwards.
As for the Pein turning into a frog, it would be plausible, if I recall correctly, they only share the same field of vision through the rinnegan, not chakra. So the only way to defeat the final pein is with the 5 second limitation. Which we know Naruto will do on his second attempt after a major fail on his first one...
Its a really simple concept, besides its shonen it happens all the time and Jiraiya already explained it. Besides Naruto learned about the Kyuubi in the very first chapter so everything after that was just learning how to access and use the Kyuubi's power which is exactly what Jiraiya was teaching him how to do.
If you call this the Kyuubi making the first move then I really don't know what to say to that.The one to make the first move in both those cases was always the kyuubi, and in the second case it didn't even need naruto's permission supposedly because he was already so messed up and unconscious
Its even mentioned again here, just because they don't show a scene of Naruto asking the Kyuubi for power every time doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
You really don't seem to get what I'm saying so just forget it.
Last edited by Abdula; Mon, 02-09-2009 at 05:49 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
What about when naruto owned haku? It SEEMED like it just happend without naruto knowing about it.
I think both of you are right to a certain extent about the Naruto's control over the Kyubi's power.
1) http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/27/18/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/27/19/
2) http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/48/16/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/48/17/
It's already been discussed that Naruto's chakra started to leak in response to extreme emotion. The darker whiskers and other feral features are physical changes you see in him when the chakra starts to leak. Both of these examples are before he learned to summon the demon chakra at will.
He's had many examples after learning control where it was clear that he intentionally drew out the fox chakra, including the first fight against itachi and kisame, the rooftop fight against Sasuke, and as Abdula mentioned, in the second fight against Sasuke before he got impaled by Sasuke's chidori.
Naruto has the passive ability to rapidly heal from at least minor injuries: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/11/02/. Mind you, this is also before he learned to control the demon chakra.
I wouldn't call Sasuke stabbing him in the right lung a minor injury, so it's hard to say if healing that was passive or if he needed to purposefully summon extra chakra, but then again, that was the first time we saw the demon cloak (enough chakra leaking to show tails). I'd like to think that most of what we see him do with the demon energy is a combination of both passive abilities and conscious use of the power.
That being said, Abdula's right. The demon chakra comes out either to emotional flares in Naruto, or Naruto's purposeful call upon it. It has nothing to do with how much of his normal chakra he has left. Jiraiya made him empty out his normal chakra reserves so that he'd have to rely on the demon chakra to pull anything off during training after the preliminary matches of the chuunin exams. The remaining normal chakra has no other significance to drawing out demon chakra, from what we've seen so far. If they change that in the future, so be it.
Seems a little lame to explain something in a shonen series by saying "because that's what usually happens in the genre"
And there's a big difference between knowing you have a power and actually using it
All you had to do was go back a couple of pages here
He didn't even know what the kyuubi was and yet he found himself consciously talking to it in its "domain" ( or whatever that is )
And that second page just makes my point, why would he summon the kyuubi and then tell it to fuck off? If anything it means the more the seal degenerates the more free will the fox has over naruto's body
We're having a good discussion here, try not to ruin it by being a douchebag ok?
I beg to differ
Like i said it seems that the kyuubi's power over naruto has gotten bigger over time so if he found himself unconscious and with almost no chakra to the point it would be life threatening i can totally picture the nine tails coming out.
Wow. Do you have to react that way to absolutely everything I post. I think my posts would be much easier for you to understand if you didn't have such as extremely negative perception of me. You're too easily offended and you take things way too personally.
Anyway basically what I meant is that you simply just don't get what I'm saying, which is true enough, and I don't think its worth discussing but if you insist I'll give it one last try.
Like I said its a very simple concept. Just think of it more realistically. In life you don't have to be taught how to do something or even know exactly what you're doing to be able to do it. Some things you are just able to do naturally and some things you pick up or start doing without even noticing. As far as the shonen thing goes I don't know how you didn't get that. There are plenty of examples of shonen heroes using powers they don't even know they have, Ichigo's Getsuga is another example. Like I said its a simple concept.
Surely if you just went back a couple of pages before that you would see that before then Naruto was attempting furiously to summon Gamabunta and was unable to do so, he even attempted to grab onto the walls by himself and when that failed he made a conscious effort to try and get to the Kyuubi and that is how he ended up there in the first place. Plus like the link I posted showed the Kyuubi didn't volunteer his help, like the Kyuubi said Naruto pretty much blackmailed him.All you had to do was go back a couple of pages here
Yes he knew what the Kyuubi was he just didn't know how to get to its power, which is what Jiraiya was trying to teach him to do. The title of the chapter right before that one is "Key" and its all about Jiraiya trying to find the key to Naruto accessing the Kyuubi's power which turned out to be strong emotion.He didn't even know what the kyuubi was and yet he found himself consciously talking to it in its "domain" ( or whatever that is )
Like Yamato explained and the Kyuubi implied in that link I posted. Naruto has pretty much been dependent on the Kyuubi since he became a ninja and when he is in a pinch he naturally draws on the Kyuubi's power. In this case he was just overpowered and pretty much humiliated by Sasuke and so he did what he normally does, he started drawing on the Kyuubi's power like he did the first time he fought Sasuke and in the battle right before that scene when he fought Orochimaru. The only thing that happened here was that Yamato had just told Naruto that he was the one who hurt Sakura so when he remembered that he caught himself and stopped before he went too far so he wouldn't hurt his allies again. If the Kyuubi could simply do what it wants and take over without Naruto's permission it certainly wouldn't have needed to essentially beg Naruto to use its power.And that second page just makes my point, why would he summon the kyuubi and then tell it to fuck off? If anything it means the more the seal degenerates the more free will the fox has over naruto's body
PS the seal is not degenerating. Old theory that was suggested by a few people, let it go, we know better now. The seal is designed to gradually allow Naruto to access more and more of the Kyuubi's chakra and the only reason he is getting overpowered by the Kyuubi now is because Jiraiya manually loosened the seal and released more of the Kyuubi's chakra than Naruto is able to handle. If you just reread most of those older chapters you would understand most of what I'm talking about and save me the trouble of having to type all this.
It won't, not unless he wants it to. I just mentioned why Naruto is now able to use more of the Kyuubi's chakra than he was before and the only reason we have been seeing more and more of the Kyuubi was because the stronger the opponent Naruto faced the more he had to depend on the Kyuubi's power. The very reason Kakashi had Yamato there when Naruto was learning the wind rasengan was so Naruto wouldn't be depending on the Kyuubi and as such would learn to use his own power.I beg to differ
Like i said it seems that the kyuubi's power over naruto has gotten bigger over time so if he found himself unconscious and with almost no chakra to the point it would be life threatening i can totally picture the nine tails coming out.
Btw, that is not funny and that is exactly what I'm talking about when I said you guys are too immature.
Last edited by Abdula; Tue, 02-10-2009 at 09:39 AM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
The problem is, I can't think of a situation where the demon chakra came out without him having a lot of emotion. Demon chakra --> emotional naruto, even if the other way isn't true. We haven't seen a single example of naruto's chakra leaking in large amounts without the emotion. We haven't even had a character speak to that. So what makes you think that it would be otherwise?
Awww, come on, it's a little funny.
I'm not asking this to be a smartass, I'm being dead serious... Are you a 13 year-old girl?
Last edited by Sidnne; Fri, 05-22-2009 at 09:35 PM.
*POOF* goes the unconscious shadow clone being held by Pein.
Well I guess that would be a difficult in reality because his Shenra Tensei should have dispelled the jitsu. Or perhaps not since that clone could have used natual energy to absorb the impact, just like it used natural energy to absorb the "clothes line" capture technique used by the other Pein.
In any event, the last Naruto clone is actually Naruto and will be summoned by ma and pa.
Hehe, just a thought.
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