To become how strong? Strong enough to be a Kage?Originally Posted by Dansetsu
You don't think he is there yet? Gaara is a kage. Do you think Gaara is stronger than Naruto? Naruto is fighting Pein (all of his bodies) one on one and winning so far; something Jiraiya, Tsunade, Kakashi, hell the entire village of Konoha, couldn't do.
At this point in the story, based on what we've seen from Naruto in the last few chapters, who do we know that is stronger than Naruto right now?
Aww you ruined it Sidnne
I was enjoying the amount of stupidity in the latest posts, they were a good lol
Big question is: How strong is Madara?
Respect the joindate, not the postcount ;P
Strong enough to be labelled King of the Undead.
I think someone mistook my mathematical calculations as real... But yeah, Naruto is on a omg hax level, but what we are going to find out is how much of a hax level is Pein on, and then Madara. The question is not, is Naruto strong enough to be Hokage, But as Hokage or not, is his powerup strong enough to defeat Pein/Madara. And lets see how strong Sasuke is to boot. But it would be interesting to see how everyone would do a power ranking. They way they want you to believe it is suppose to be like this,
1. Pein
2. Naruto
3. Sasuke
4. Madara
5.
And really for number 5 you still have a few more Atasuke members kicking around, plus the 8 tails proved to be pretty strong, and his brother the Raikage seems to be on another level as well. I think if I were to do a top 10 power ranking, as of chapter 433 it would have to be something like this...
1. Pein
2. Raikage (8 tails brother)
3. 8 tails
4. Naruto
5. Madara
6. Sasuke
7. Hokage (Granny Tsunde)
8. Kakashi
9 Atisuki member
10. Atisuki member
However, based on the story line and what we are suppose to believe it should be more like this,
1. Madara
2. Pein
3. Sasuke
4. Naruto
5. Raikage
6. 8 tails
7. Atasuki member
8. Kakashi
9.
10.
But I am sure, that the Pein fight can't end here. I'm interested in other people's power rankings...
I think you hit a new record for number of different ways to mess up the spelling of Akatsuki in a single post. :P
I think threads about who people think is the strongest already exist, though I don't know how long its been since anyone has posted in them. You might find one of those and give it a little update through the current chapter if you are interesting in discussing power rankings further.
To be fair, jiraiya was winning aswell, against 6 peins, he made a mistake which killed him, naruto has been fighting 4 peins, with sage mode and 3 summons, thats basically 6 on 4, plus god realm pein was without his god realm power, making it nearly 6 on ... 3.5.
Gaara outclassed Deidara in every way, but he lost cause he did what a kage is supposed to do, defend the village ( from a nuke ).
Not to mention Naruto had the huge advantage of knowing their numbers and abilities
The situational differences between Naruto vs Pain and Garaa vs Deidara are far too significant to brush them off and simplify things to Naruto ~= Pain; Pain > Diedara ; Diedara ~= Garaa therefore Naruto > Garaa.
In any case, Naruto came into this fight knowing many of Pein's abilities giving him a significant advantage over Jiraiya who had to figure them out mid-battle. Even without the benefit of foreknowledge what ended up killing Jiraiya was that one of Pain's abilities was to revive bodies stabbed through the heart with giant swords which Jiraiya didn't anticipate and thus couldn't counter effectively. Would Jiraiya have still died if he had done a better job of destroying the bodies and hadn't let his guard down. Maybe, maybe not, but since he did let his guard down and got owned we'll never know.
Similarly, Tsunade sent the bulk of her energy into healing Konoha citizens and was interrupted so it's hard to gauge how effective she would have been against Pain in a protracted battle. From what we've seen I don't know that she could pull it off, but I don't think we've seen everything she can do either so I wouldn't make a judgment on it.
Naruto already knows several stages of Pain's fighting patterns and he's prepped specifically to deal with them (much like Ino-Shika-Cho prepped to deal with Hidan and Kakuzu after learning about their abilities). I doubt the fight we're seeing now in any way resembles the fight we'd be seeing if Naruto hadn't received the intel the frogs and Jiraiya collected on Pain.
Last edited by Yukimura; Thu, 02-05-2009 at 06:15 PM.
First of all, Gaara wasn't someone to take lightly. He could just wave his hands around and commanded tidal waves of power through dirt. Also, because of the same "dirt" he was always protected. The only connection the two have is being sons of past kages in their respective towns. That's it. So even trying to compare the two is idiotic. Gaara probably didn't even know basic ninjutsu simply because he didn't have too. The priests spirit and the sand did all the work for him.
I still don't know why people respect this Naruto kid. He hangs out with frogs for godssake. Isn't that a bit odd to anyone? Anyway. Naruto isn't someone to take lightly now either, but he has had some MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR help from those giant giant frogs. Yes he knew what to do with them, but Pain only needed other bodies. And no, I don't consider Pains bodies a form of help. They're just an extension of himself, with another Akatsuki coat on them. If anything, they're just spread out pieces of jutsu amongst 6 other bodies. They all don't know how to summon animals. They all can't absorb jutsu based attacks. Only the big guy can. I honestly think that it's still to early for Naruto to become strong. Way too early.
Another thing is that, pain isn't something same old same old. This is Kishi's best character design over all. From piercings being used as the chakra antennas, to the splitting up of the jutsus and skills through the six bodies. It's fucking brilliant. Blond fuck head is just getting help from his dads old buddies and a whole kind of chakra. Which I think is one of Kishi's worst ideas. Eventually, he would suck the trees and rocks and animals dry with a long enough fight. It isn't endless. He'll start killing nature around him too.
Even Pain used summons. Why is it "help" when Naruto uses it?
Way too early for Naruto to become strong? I really hope you mean the extremely fast rate he learned sage mode, since before that, he sucked for the longest time and everyone was wishing for him to stop doing so.
EDIT: Removed the insult, as true as it may be.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Thu, 02-05-2009 at 10:10 PM.
Peace.
Woah, what's with all the name calling, I thought we were all friends here... (new to the forums not the internet lol...)
I'm dying to get the next chapter out, so I can see how Pein will react, questions is, with sage mode how many defensive techs did Naruto learn if any... and what can he use against god realm that doesn't blow them all away...I just have this feeling that something huge is about to happen again...
Cant WAIT!!!
How could you not compare Gaara and Naruto? They both fought evenly at their battles, and their match is considered one of Naruto's rightful winning battles. Both characters serve as vessels for their respective Jinchuuriki and have been at one period in their lives suffered the burden and outcast by the other villagers in their village. Gaara serves as a juxtaposed character to Naruto as possibility in how Naruto would have become (insane, and unable to realize Tamari and Kankuro's anguished love), had he not met Iruka, and Team Seven. Gaara now represents one of those touched by Naruto's spirit and change that results in the contemporary Gaara we have now - an appreciated Kage instead of a societal "monster".
Unfortunately, your ignorance cannot be surpassed with this greatest statement, whether the context is with the anime or manga viewers or the villagers in the village. Let me just state the obvious:
1. He's the protagonist. Hence the title, "Naruto".
2. He's the shounen boy who has the power to surpass everyone with hard work despite being looked down upon by other characters. The audience can familiarize with Naruto's character because he's the kind of character who can show people up for underestimating him.
3. Even if he had help from his comrades, or if most of his opponents were weakened previously to his presence, he still defeated him. It's like saying that even if Haku sacrificed himself to save Zabuza, Kakashi still killed him. I don't see anyone complaining about this, so why Naruto?
4. He has the power to change lives with his philosophy. I believe a recent US President may have similar characteristics with this one, and a landslide majority of the population voted in his favour.
5. He's Yondaime's son. Yondaime is a prodigy, so many would expect great potential in Naruto himself. Contrasting to this is the White Fang and Kakashi. White Fang was a ninja genius, and Kakashi is now as well.
6. During the Chuunin exam, Naruto had equally fought Neji and won. Even up until now, the Hyuuga clan is considered a noble clan with a desirable bloodline, and Neji is a prime example of their clan's skill and during this time, was considered a "genius". He is now a Jounin while everyone else are Chuunins.
7. Etc.
Poor argument. I am quite sure that no one thought that it was odd how Jiraiya "hangs out" with frogs before or how Kakashi talks to Pakkun (the dog). These frogs are supernatural consciences that provide spiritual and power increments to Naruto's strength.
Manda. Had Sasuke not used Manda to substitute his place, Sasuke would have died. I would consider that too as well as "MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR help".
Sounds close to Naruto's signature move, eh?
Seems more like a disadvantage on how one person is a specialized shield while Naruto's shadow clones can all be a shield in a way.
It's been 433 chapters. How long do you want to wait until Naruto begins to be, in your standards, to be "strong"? Another year? Another five years? I'm sorry, your majesty, maybe ten years may cater to your tastes as a good transition for Naruto to be "strong" and to be at an equivalence with Sasuke or Madara. How stronger can Naruto get? From the recent display of excellent battle tactics, it is clear to us that Naruto does know how to fight at a decent level now. He's outwitting Pain, the leader of the Rain Village, and the pseudo-Akatsuki leader with basic transformation techniques.
Personal opinion, doesn't add to argument.
Your arguments present a number of contradictions to the Naruto universe and effectively "destructure" your own arguments. Isn't Pain, "Kishi's best character design", just getting help from Jiraiya [his sensei]'s old opponents [buddies] and a whole kind of chakra [chakra emitting-antenna receiving waves] (plus, not to mention the Jinchuuriki chakra you failed to realize yourself in regards to Gaara and Naruto).
tl;dr - I am tired of seeing your terrible anti-Naruto arguments, and so are many people. Your ignoramus-like atttitude prevents you from comprehending the actual character of Naruto whilst being impressed by those characters and villains who are very comparable in nature. How many teams spawned out of the academy? And how many of those actual thirty [uncertain] individuals became above Jounin-rank levels who are able to wreak absolute havoc and destruction? Naruto and Sasuke, that's who!
Last edited by enkoujin; Thu, 02-05-2009 at 10:40 PM.
Maybe he's tired of reading dansetsus shit posts? God knows i am...
Who's this enkoujin kid? I like him
Enjokin came out like Konohamaru and layed the smackdown from out of nowhere. Goddamn. Welcome to the forums man.
edit: Enkoujin, my bad, don't hurt me!
Excuse me but I'm going to have to butt in here. First off all welcome to the forum Enkoujin. If you keep this up you might actually get me interested in Naruto again and I'm sure we'll be the best of friends. Secondly I'm not sure what you think this is but this is an anime forum, your entire post is nothing but personal opinion and conjecture and personal opinion being what it is there are always people who are going to disagree. Case in point,
I completely disagree with this. They didn't fight evenly and I don't consider Naruto to have won that match and its not just because of how lame Naruto was in that fight but because of how it ended. Both were completely out of chakra and too exhausted to even move, now unless you're Animeniax I won't really count that as a victory and I certainly don't. Same with Naruto's little battle with Kabuto but that is another story.
I agree with you here about what Gaara represents but the nitpicker in me has got to say that Naruto didn't turn out the way he did because of Iruka. Naruto unlike Gaara didn't even know that he had a bijuu inside him, Naruto just assumed people treated him the way they did because he was an orphan and nobody liked him. Gaara on the other hand knew the entire story and he had to deal with the fact that it was his own father who was the source of his suffering and even turned the only person who Gaara loved and trusted against him. There is also the point that the Third hokage protected Naruto from having to go through what Gaara did. So Naruto isn't the way he is now just because of Iruka and not meeting an Iruka is not what made Gaara a monster, having that person try to kill him and having to kill that person is what did the trick. Really Naruto and Gaara are really just a reflection of the different philosophies of their respective villages.Both characters serve as vessels for their respective Jinchuuriki and have been at one period in their lives suffered the burden and outcast by the other villagers in their village. Gaara serves as a juxtaposed character to Naruto as possibility in how Naruto would have become (insane, and unable to realize Tamari and Kankuro's anguished love), had he not met Iruka, and Team Seven. Gaara now represents one of those touched by Naruto's spirit and change that results in the contemporary Gaara we have now - an appreciated Kage instead of a societal "monster".
Ignorance huh. Well I'm pretty sure we all know Naruto's life story and listing it really doesn't help anything. Why I don't respect Naruto is quite simple because Kishimoto set the bar way too high and ever since the manga began I've been waiting, waiting and waiting for Naruto to be the ninja you expected him to be and he wasn't. Naruto is just too much gimmicks and gadgetry and with all that it still seemed like he was struggling to keep pace with every one despite all those things he has going for him and the way Kishimoto compensated for that is with more gimmicks and gadgetry. Keep in mind I'm not saying Naruto is all bad its just that Kishi has this way of doing things when it comes to Naruto's character and its really just become too much.Unfortunately, your ignorance cannot be surpassed with this greatest statement, whether the context is with the anime or manga viewers or the villagers in the village. Let me just state the obvious:
1. He's the protagonist. Hence the title, "Naruto".
2. He's the shounen boy who has the power to surpass everyone with hard work despite being looked down upon by other characters. The audience can familiarize with Naruto's character because he's the kind of character who can show people up for underestimating him.
3. Even if he had help from his comrades, or if most of his opponents were weakened previously to his presence, he still defeated him. It's like saying that even if Haku sacrificed himself to save Zabuza, Kakashi still killed him. I don't see anyone complaining about this, so why Naruto?
4. He has the power to change lives with his philosophy. I believe a recent US President may have similar characteristics with this one, and a landslide majority of the population voted in his favour.
5. He's Yondaime's son. Yondaime is a prodigy, so many would expect great potential in Naruto himself. Contrasting to this is the White Fang and Kakashi. White Fang was a ninja genius, and Kakashi is now as well.
6. During the Chuunin exam, Naruto had equally fought Neji and won. Even up until now, the Hyuuga clan is considered a noble clan with a desirable bloodline, and Neji is a prime example of their clan's skill and during this time, was considered a "genius". He is now a Jounin while everyone else are Chuunins.
7. Etc.
Yes Sasuke had help no one is arguing that and I'm pretty sure Sasuke admitted that he probably would have died if not for Manda. Having help isn't a bad thing, the problem with Naruto is that he always has help and more importantly he always needs help. Whether its the Kyuubi giving him super human healing abilities and incredible stamina or using the Kyuubi to fight Haku and Neji or using the Kyuubi and Gamabunta to fight Gaara or having Kakashi, Jiraiya or Yamato there to stop him when he goes too far or having Kakashi and Yamato to free him when he got caught by Kakuzu or even in this battle here having the toads there to reverse summon his shadow clone for him so he can continue to fight. Point is Naruto always has help and he always needs help, whether its someone to assist him in battle, help him escape when he messes up and gets caught by the enemy or just to pull him back when he goes too far. Naruto always needs someone and I would just like see Naruto do it by himself for once and win just so I say to myself with a little confidence that Naruto, the son of the fourth, the host of the Kyuubi, the child of destiny, all that nonsense, can fight against a serious opponent by himself.Manda. Had Sasuke not used Manda to substitute his place, Sasuke would have died. I would consider that too as well as "MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR help".
This is getting long so we can get back to these sometime if you're interested.Sounds close to Naruto's signature move, eh?
Seems more like a disadvantage on how one person is a specialized shield while Naruto's shadow clones can all be a shield in a way.
That is the problem. It took far too long and its happening all too soon and whats even worse, its not consistent. In 260 Naruto takes out Itachi's clone and you begin to think he made some improvement, 10 chapters later Deidara is making a fool of him five chapters after that thanks to a massive assist by Kakashi he manages to look good again only to begin losing it and needing Kakashi's help. Then Oro makes a fool of him and he goes berserk and you think okay maybe he is not such a good ninja but if he can use the Kyuubi he will be a force to be reckoned with, then against Sasuke we see just how useless Naruto is without the Kyuubi. Also it always seems like Naruto is playing catch up. He needed the Kyuubi to make him stand out as a ninja because other than that he was nothing special certainly not on the level of Sasuke or Neji. He needed his wind rasengan so he would stand a chance against Sasuke, needs an entirely new type of chakra to take on Pain etc etc. Its one thing to need a powerup to defeat some massively overpowered villian i.e. Pain but Naruto seems to need a new power up for every single opponent he faces.It's been 433 chapters. How long do you want to wait until Naruto begins to be, in your standards, to be "strong"? Another year? Another five years? I'm sorry, your majesty, maybe ten years may cater to your tastes as a good transition for Naruto to be "strong" and to be at an equivalence with Sasuke or Madara. How stronger can Naruto get? From the recent display of excellent battle tactics, it is clear to us that Naruto does know how to fight at a decent level now. He's outwitting Pain, the leader of the Rain Village, and the pseudo-Akatsuki leader with basic transformation techniques.
Like I said its all personal opinion. Besides it doesn't change the fact that he is right. Pain, Itachi, Orochimaru are all great characters and they are perfect examples of what Kishi does best. Naruto, Sakura and Ino on the other hand.Personal opinion, doesn't add to argument.
Okay no doubting Dansetsu's posts are idiotic and I've no doubt he is just another one of conquistaDan's/docdan's cleverly named alternative accounts but come on, the Naruto universe is a contradiction to the Naruto universeYour arguments present a number of contradictions to the Naruto universe and effectively "destructure" your own arguments. Isn't Pain, "Kishi's best character design", just getting help from Jiraiya [his sensei]'s old opponents [buddies] and a whole kind of chakra [chakra emitting-antenna receiving waves] (plus, not to mention the Jinchuuriki chakra you failed to realize yourself in regards to Gaara and Naruto).
Did I really see too long didn't read, considering the length of your post that is hilarious.tl;dr - I am tired of seeing your terrible anti-Naruto arguments, and so are many people. Your ignoramus-like atttitude prevents you from comprehending the actual character of Naruto whilst being impressed by those characters and villains who are very comparable in nature. How many teams spawned out of the academy? And how many of those actual thirty [uncertain] individuals became above Jounin-rank levels who are able to wreak absolute havoc and destruction? Naruto and Sasuke, that's who!
Speaking of which this one is long enough as is, props to anyone who read the entire thing you're a real trooper. Spelling and/or grammatical errors will have to be corrected another time..
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
welcome aboard, stay around the forums, we're seriously lacking people who write incredibly long essays with no provocation.
Abdula said most things, so I won't repeat him, I'll much rather refer to those 7 points.
1. what are you trying to prove with stating the obvious?
2. That was true (at some level) five years ago, the series lot the underdog card after the the hospital fight (which was awesome) and the sympathy when Kimimaru showed up. the power of hard work was lost somewhere earlier.
A. Underdog. it's nice to root for the underdog, but if somebody keeps being an underdog (and acting like one, losing the first fight and winning the rematch) after ten years, the audience stops seeing him as an inspiring figure and starts telling him to go look for a different job. that's why pokemon (among many other reasons) is a pile of junk.
If Naruto needs to shonen heart his way through every single fight, at this point of time (ten fuckin' years!) then it's time for him to quit. he ain't fit to be a hero.
B. Sympathy. the same, he stopped being a young and struggling version of ourselves, and is now simply the 30 something years old version of ourselves that keeps on failing and jumps from one big thing to the next, until he ultimately gives up and escapes to the happy land of Jack Daniels.
C. hard work? why bother? some jerk who happened to be born into a line of mega-fuckin' awesome ninjas with magic powers coming out the wazoo is going to own him any day of the week, not to mention that every character who wins a fight is a genius (or gifted) of some sort. Shika, Neji, Kakashi, when did someone who wasn't a mega-rookie win a fight without revealing a new secret about his resolution?
Kankaru and Temari, that's when.
3. how are those two related? Haku was willing to give his life to help Zabuza, so in theory, even if Zabuza would have won, he would still pay a price for that win (loss of his BFF!), Naruto never had to walk on the pavement made of his friends graves. that's why when shikmaru won we were cheering on him, and whenever chouji appears, we try to imagine he's not there.
but that's not the point. I have no problem with Naruto fighting a weakend enemy and winning, it's just seems stupid that Naruto can't win a fight without having his enemy handicapped. Naruto wants to be tough? then he should win a surprise fight, against previously unknown enemies, and without calling for some help. it's the big league now, get serious, or get out.
4. Naruto = Barak Obama? who's life did he change recently? Sai?
Sai doesn't matter, he had no substance as a character, and other than being openly gay, he has no point. I'm all in for changing other people's mind with fists, but still, what may work in the first part of the story, won't work ten fuckin' years into the story. it's time for Naruto to change his record, get some grip on the world and re-arrange his values. start listening to others, and make a stand against people, why can't he call on Sasuke's assholeness? the guy works with the person who's trying to destroy the universe, he almost got five of his friends killed, he left the village to joint he person who killed the village's father figure. what more is needed for Naruto to ball up and make a stand.
besides, we didn't get one worthy backstory since Gaara and Neji.
5. Back to the hard work argument... while this was highly anticipated, I hated the fact the Naruto is the son of the hokage, since it goes under the premise of the story. Naruto is no longer the lonely person who becomes a great person through his own will, he got turned into the stolen prince that must be returned to his kingdom through the winds of destiny, and god damn anyone who says otherwise.
6. Hyuuga clan? half decent? hardly. their master secrets were figured out by a 13 years old, and that still didn't help him much. saying that the hyuuga are powerful is like saying Iruka is tough. it's pointless, relies on no serious evidence, and it actually goes against what we were shown before. can the hyuuga clan live forever? nope, so they aren't as strong as the sharingan jerks. can they master any form of power that exists and permanently manipulate the bodies of others? no? so they probably aren't better than the Ringan. can it at least grow extra limbs out of the user? it can't? so it's actually less than Kimimaru's genepool... well, then it probably can control the powers of one of the great demon beasts, right?
Point.
7. etc? what does that mean?
welcome, emojin, it's going to be a blast,
(don't worry, I'm this bashful towards just about anyone).
sig made by Itachi-y2k5, thanks, dude!
Currently Watching: probably a show directed at 9 years old girls, lets be honest.
You know the important distinction between Batman and me? Batman is fictional. In real life, there isn't always an alternative.
Naruto won that fight. It might not have been clean, but he won, since he was able to stop Gaara from achieving his goal and murdering everybody. Who cares if he ran out of chakra at the end? He wasn't even using a whole tail's worth of chakra.
Naruto got his way, and Gaara didn't. That makes Naruto the winner.
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