It really bothers me that Billy figured out Trans-Am and apparently told everyone in A-LAWS. Eifman died the very moment he figured out Aoelia Schenberg and that the Jupiter Drives were connected. Trans-Am was something that even the Innovators knew nothing about (remember how pissed Ribbons and Alejandro were when they found they couldn't access that level?) There shouldn't have been any way Billy could have figured it out unless Wang Lui Mei told Ribbons and the Innovators passed the information on.
In that case, the Innovators' suits should be the ones with fake Trans-Am drives first, not Graham's Weeaboo.
It was my understanding that the only reason the True GN drives could even achieve it was because of some surface area physics on the inside of the drives that could only be accomplished in Jupiter orbit.
EDIT:
Other notes:
- Soma will definitely fight again, no matter how much Al doesn't want it. She wants to.
- I liked that the guy told Sergei about the coup because he didn't want Sergei involved. He pretty much knew that if Sergei was on the other side, he'd lose.
- It seems Feldt is interested in Lyle again. With him probably going after Anew, Feldt will probably be crushed with heartbreak seeing them make out in secret. Either way, Feldt will probably end up romantically involved with Milena (desu~)
- I also liked Milena's sleepy comment to Tieria.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Mon, 01-19-2009 at 05:38 AM.
Trans-am on Grams mech is PURE BS as I stated last week there is no way possible Eifman had any remote clue they could do that. They didn't have fake GN drives yet, Innovators had no clue, celestial being had no clue and frankly there was absolutely no reason to make a guess that it was even remotely possible.
Of course even if he does magically have trans-am why would it even matter against the OO-raiser in the first place? Graham couldn't beat Setsuna when he was in Exia post trans-am at the end of season one so we have no reason to believe Graham is a better pilot unlike Ali who is clearly better. Plus there is no remotely believable way for a trans-am from a limited power drive to remotely compete with one of a double drive that breaks the theoretical limit. That crap sandwich is simply way to hard for me to swallow if they try to even make it look like a close fight next episode.
Hercules and Sergei on the other hand was excellent the entire way the coup has been handled was the only real redeeming factor in this episode.
Except that brings us to the battle with A-laws + innovators V.S. crippled Celestial being. Wait so they had both active gundams disabled and neither of the other innovators even attempts to finish them off. The ship has zero weapons and they have a massive numbers advantage. So they hear there was a coup and immediately retreat? Even if A-laws does retreat why would the innovators not bother to try and take revenge for Bring having them dead to rights?
Then we have this new ending song.... I can't say I'm remotely a fan of that thing.
Though at 22:20 of GSS we do have Lyle clearly with Anew so I think its safe to say that pairing is official.
The Trans-am is pure BS as stated above. Even so, he shouldn't be any match for 00. The 00's power output is 4x the normal output, and he can actually fight after transam. The Trans-(Grah)am would simply drain the power of the drive very quickly. Pretty useless ability w/o the original drive.
I'm happy to hear that we haven't seen all the abilities of Seraphim yet.
It's also time for Halleluja to awaken again. I'm sure that very soon Arios will dock with the GunArcher.
I reckon Eifman only noticed some theoretic possibility there, nothing more. Billy probably found a way to apply that theoretic observation. If it's the trans-am, it only means something that has been done throughout the human history many times over: Something developed independently in two different places.
I liked how Soma seemed so ready to fight. Let's hope she gets a chance soon. Her potential is severely wasted by idling.
I liked the crossed out GramsAM in the final scenes of the show. That was a good kick.
As for Billy figuring out trans-AM..bullshit.
Yes, clearly it makes much more sense a terrorist organization has the best brains, resources, and funding. A world government should be fighting with sticks and stones.Originally Posted by EpyonNext
The issue isn't just Billy magically figures out trans-am its a LOT more then that. First they invoked Professor Eifman for seemingly no reason to make it happen. He died WELL before this took place and when the Innovators have no clue the drives can do this and they were unable to figure out how to make a drive do this with all of veda's data as well its pretty thin that Eifman came up with a magical theory that allowed Billy to come up with that.
The second issue is how trans-am works its something only an ORIGINAL GN-drive is capable of and even if a drive with a finite power supply were to use it it should be completely useless. Why, you may ask. Simple because the way it works is using the excess power that a regular GN drive creates and stores during normal use. On the other hand the fake drives have to be charged and clearly have a much lower capacity then those of any of celestial beings suits. This should mean that all Setsuna or anyone else in a real Gundam would have to do is turn on trans-am and outrun Graham until his powers down at which point his suit is completely drained of power and he plummets to his death. From the looks of it he doesn't even have ranged weapons just 2 giant swords.
I'd be fine with Eifman having a theory that Billy perfected as a new anti-gundam measure but copying Trans-am is purely moronic.
We don't yet know what exactly is this fake trans-am, so it's quite possible it will compress all the GN energy left and allow overcharged use of it. Like if the fake GN drive would have three hours of operational time left, it would burn it all in fifteen minutes. Such a thing would make a lot of sense.
Other than that, you shouldn't regard those innovators so highly. The beginning of this second season showed them already in power but other than that initial setting I can't remember a single case that would have displayed why they are really superior to humans. They rely too much on Veda and the Plan, which is nothing but a restriction, preventing them from coming up with anything novel, and their arrogance surely has cost them much. It's probably better for Billy not to consult them too much when developing new suits.
Wait are you really watching the same show I am Kraco? The innovators Gundams are superior to any of the original Gundams even WITH trans-AM and I don't think they are hiring out to have someone else build the suits. That pretty much tells me they have equal tech to Celestial Being twin-drive aside. The military is using A-law level frames meaning they have significantly lower equipment statwise with the only possible acceptation being Grams shiny black Bunny Gundam.
What makes you possibly believe they don't have significantly superior tech to ANYTHING the Military has? I mean its pretty much been stated the high level tech the military does have was provided by Ribbons in the first place.
What you have to take from that is anything superior to the original trans-am wasn't in Veda to start with its stuff they developed during the time skip. The same way anything new the Meisters have right now wasn't developed by Veda. Billy isn't playing with nearly the same information and Eifman still had no reason to be assuming trans-am was remotely possible he had NOTHING to work with.
How do you know what was inside Veda? I still remember not too many episodes back Ribbons complaining something wasn't in Veda databases. That tells me the dude is still digging around in those dusty folders. And I doubt those fools could come up with anything better than Billy, anyway. Unless there are hundreds of thousands of innovators with their own little institutions and factories somewhere, I basically consider the innovators and the Federation resources one and the same. Other than that it makes sense a big entity like the Federation (A-LAWs included) would have multiple projects going on. Some resulting in the suits the innovators get killed in, some resulting in the suits the regular A-LAWs get killed in.
And it's bloody stupid to deny Eifman at this point. The technology is already in the show, on your own screen, so what use is it to try to tell it's not possible? Obviously Eifman was a smart guy and immediately saw some potential in those particles, and it took this long for Billy to come up with a device to harness that potential. Nobody knew of Trans-am back then (except Veda), but that didn't need to slow down Eifman. Since Trans-am was possible to begin with, there's no reason why somebody couldn't theorize and then develop it.
Except...there's a flaw with this development.
Eifman himself hypothesized that the GN drives exist from a thought-lost expedition to Jupiter. That the "surface imperfections" (I believe the translation used) on the inside of the GN drive were only possible to create in that environment. That's when he made the connection, and immediately the message appeared on his screen, and the Thrones killed him.
There simply was no time for him to have sent this data anywhere, especially home. He wasn't dictating to his backup drives at home (Billy said he found notes, I don't know if the word used in Japanese indicated hard copies or electronic).
Billy should not have been able to have any research to build this upon.
If he had said, "I made this up myself after studying more of the Gundam's movements, it should make you equivalent to a Gundam," maybe I would understand. Billy is supposed to be uber-smart. (Not enough to figure out his drunken sex slave was a member of CB). But having gotten this information from Eifman is total bullshit.
Billy shouldn't even know it's called "Trans-Am."
The only way this would have been possible is if Ribbons leaked it all out. If that were the case, Innovators would certainly be the first to have this.
First off nothing about Trans-AM was ever in Veda that data was transmitted from elsewhere when Aeolia Schenberg was killed and only to those with original solar furnaces.
Second nobody is arguing Billy didn't magically come up with Trans-AM. We are just stating that particular plot twist is complete BS and it frankly shouldn't have happened. It wasn't even foreshadowed in season one in any way it was just kinda thrown out there last episode.
Finally its not like Billy has been working on this Theory for the last few years and finally came up with a breakthrough. Its something he took on after this season began when after his drunken plaything left him.
Its about the same way I felt about them bringing back Mu La Flaga in Gundam Seed Destiny after he was blatantly killed in Gundam Seed. I find the blatant retcon so they can put in a bad plot twist to just be a terrible addition to the show.
I would feel a lot differently if the Eifman was never brought up in the first place or if it was some new technology but no its Graham gets a power that has no right on working on a non-original Solar furnace suit.
I agree with the sentiment that its crazy Billy figured out the Trans Am...but I think it could have some severe limitations...but then again Eiffman was the first and the most capable person of understanding the GN drive technology so I guess...still quite a stretch...and also I dont think Veda had that information about the special powers of the original GN drives because Ribbons was freaking out when the Gundam quantized the first time...
wow..... I have the ship that has been a pain on my ass ever since season 1 right in front of me all broken up and defenseless, 2 gundams down, one recharging, and to top it off I have more then enough suit to kill them 10 times over...... Oh shit a coup, which I can do nottin about right at this moment...... should I kill them and be rid of them once and for all or run away for no apparent reason hmmmm......... hard choice........ think damn it think.... oh I got it WE RUN.
This Gundam series is so retarded. I never thought I would say this but this series is even worse then GSD.
Oh no you didn't....
Oh yes he did!
No way man, GSD was the biggest shit-fest of a Gundam series iv seen in a while, while this series i certainly experiencing some problems, its still far better then GSD.
"Be sure to take this piece of $#!t(meant sheet)" - My dynamics professor(heavy japanese accent)
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I'm finding it entirely plausible Billy came up with a way to manifest Trans Am, and basically every point Kraco said.
First thing I'd like to clarify with Ryll is where did they say the stuff about "surface imperfection"? And what was that in regards to?
From what we saw in Season 1, the only difference between Fake and Real GN drives was the self-regenerating ability. The power output was the same, or even superior when you look at Nena's suit. The key was the recharge.
Soon after that, Veda got hacked, and sent a code that unlocks Trans Am in those trusted with the original GN Drives. In other words, these GN drives were built with Trans Am built in, and previously locked, while Fake GNs didn't.
The above two points are true, but do not necessarily have a causal relationship.
1) Real GN drives being perfect -> particle regeneration
2) Real GN drives being built with locked Trans Am -> Unlockable Trans Am
The Fake GN drives still aren't perfect, and can't recharge, but that doesn't stop it having Trans Am.
It's entirely plausible that after 4 years of playing with Fake GN drives and observing such particles, the Federation would have enough data to make, in essence, a high output GN drive possible.
Added to the fact that Eifman was simply observing GN particles back in his studies to find their properties, he could have easily hypothesised something that was completely impractical (until now) while he discovered their very basic properties.
Crux: Billy said he proved Eifman's theories. It could have been as simple as "Based on the observed properties, GN particles seemed to be influenced by X, and by manipulating X, GN drive output may increase."
Billy would have had to both prove and implement that. Eifman came up with a thought. Billy carried it though.
Oh, and Anew keeps rising on my ladder.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Tue, 01-20-2009 at 04:37 AM.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
I do my best not to repeat what I can't back up.
Gundam 00 Season 1 Eps 17. 16:24-17:03. Eifman is immediately killed afterwards. All of these thoughts are internal. I will admit that he is typing on a computer, so there is the remote possibility that this was linked to his computer back home, allowing Billy to find these "notes." The screen displays information on the GN particles.
Herein, Eifman hypothesizes that the ONLY place true GN drives can be developed is Jupiter, and that they must be 120 years old from the mission back then. He determines Aoelia Schernberg's true goal, and then his computer blanks out. Depending on your point of view, one could assume that his session there was destroyed, the notes lost or that he was fast enough to hit 'save' and send it on home before the Trinities blasted him to atoms. However, assuming his computer was hijacked by Alejandro (more likely Ribbons or another Innovator), the data was more likely lost than sent to a safe place where Billy could find it.
I did get the buzzword wrong though. It was Topological defects that make the true GN drives what they are. Superconduction, liquid crystals, magenetic flux tubes, etc.
Topological defects --> topographical defects --> surface imperfections.
DDBen and I are not denying that Billy could have figured out Trans-Am. What we are calling bullshit is that Billy claimed Eifman led him there. (And that he even knows the name for it.)Soon after that, Veda got hacked, and sent a code that unlocks Trans Am in those trusted with the original GN Drives. In other words, these GN drives were built with Trans Am built in, and previously locked, while Fake GNs didn't.
The above two points are true, but do not necessarily have a causal relationship.
1) Real GN drives being perfect -> particle regeneration
2) Real GN drives being built with locked Trans Am -> Unlockable Trans Am
The Fake GN drives still aren't perfect, and can't recharge, but that doesn't stop it having Trans Am.
It's entirely plausible that after 4 years of playing with Fake GN drives and observing such particles, the Federation would have enough data to make, in essence, a high output GN drive possible.
Added to the fact that Eifman was simply observing GN particles back in his studies to find their properties, he could have easily hypothesised something that was completely impractical (until now) while he discovered their very basic properties.
Crux: Billy said he proved Eifman's theories. It could have been as simple as "Based on the observed properties, GN particles seemed to be influenced by X, and by manipulating X, GN drive output may increase."
Billy would have had to both prove and implement that. Eifman came up with a thought. Billy carried it though.
There are plenty of ways that a Fake GN drive could pull off Trans-Am. Nena's fake GN drive had an absurd capacity/output, far surpassing anything the Gundams could do until the 00-Raiser came into being. I could go into the Thrones having red GN particles versus the fake-GN drives having orange GN particles all day, but we'll save that for another time.
While it is too soon to say how the Trans-Graham is supposed to work since he only turned it on as the eps ended, one thing had damn well better happen. Since theWeeabooMasarou doesn't have a regenerating drive, that mobile suit had better drop like a fucking brick when Trans-Graham runs out. His GN drive should be completely dead. Gundams run on low power and struggle to rebuild GN particles as 'only they can' [Eifman, s1e17 16:24-16:45, Sunrise Inc. 2008].
The Throne GN drives can't regenerate, the fake GN drives can't regenerate. They exhaust that much power that quickly, they won't run. We saw a little bit of that in the Thrones last season.
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