Movie: The Last Airbender

[XanBcoo]

How many communities are there of dark skinned blue-eyed people?

lol "Brown people don't have blue eyes. Better make these brown characters white."

I realized my mistake in calling them "Asian" since they are obviously meant to be Native American, and corrected myself. That doesn't change the issue. If a character is not obviously black/asian/indian, then he or she is neutral and white. That is the accepted reality that you are describing.

I won't respond to anything else you said because it's exactly the type of hand-wringing and nitpicking I was referring to. It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to ignore the fact that the show is deeply rooted in Asian cultures with a primarily non-white cast because you want to excuse that a bunch of white kids were cast as brown characters because they were defined by Shymalan to be "ambiguous".

I won't derail any further. In the end, it's not a crime against humanity, but rather a disappointment. It's indicative of the state of Hollywood that Asian/brown actors could have been cast in a role that didn't paint them as caricatures, but were ignored in favor of marketability.

But at the same time I think it's wrong to try to force others not to see a movie because the characters aren't the race you think they should be (I'm not denying that the casting director is racist either lol).

Maybe they were dicks about it, but if I were your friend I'd try to convince you not to financially support this kind of whitewashing.

[Munsu]

lol "Brown people don't have blue eyes. Better make these brown characters white."

I realized my mistake in calling them "Asian" since they are obviously meant to be Native American, and corrected myself. That doesn't change the issue. If a character is not obviously black/asian/indian, then he or she is neutral and white. That is the accepted reality that you are describing.

I won't respond to anything else you said because it's exactly the type of hand-wringing and nitpicking I was referring to. It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to ignore the fact that the show is deeply rooted in Asian cultures with a primarily non-white cast because you want to excuse that a bunch of white kids were cast as brown characters because they were defined by Shymalan to be "ambiguous".

I won't derail any further. In the end, it's not a crime against humanity, but rather a disappointment. It's indicative of the state of Hollywood that Asian/brown actors could have been cast in a role that didn't paint them as caricatures, but were ignored in favor of marketability.


Maybe they were dicks about it, but if I were your friend I'd try to convince you not to financially support this kind of whitewashing.

Xan, you're clearly reading my post wrong. What I was criticizing was first and foremost the inability to separate a fantasy world with the real world, and secondly the idea that "yellow people" as Animeniax likes to mention lost a ton of roles to white people. It's simply not true.

Nit-picking goes both ways. And I haven't said that I'm happy with the roles of Sokka and Katara as they were casted. I simply have a problem with the type of rationalization some of you are coming up with to not like the casting.

To me Katara and Sokka should be dark skinned with blue eyes. Wether they're Asians or not I could care less, and I don't think they're Asians. And Katara should be older.

And as mentioned before, Aang is perfectly fine as casted in my opinion.

[XanBcoo]

Yeah, like I said, I was mistaken in referring to Katara and Sokka as Asian and corrected myself. But that doesn't change the issue at all. Non-whites lost roles to white people and a rationale that says "Well, this is clearly a fantasy setting so everyone is without ethnicity" is absolutely racist. Not "racial slur" racist, but the product of a de-facto racist institution.

If you truly want to understand why this casting is particularly upsetting, start by visiting the blog that rockmanj linked to earlier: http://www.racebending.com/v3/featur...rimer/#casting

[Munsu]

Yeah, like I said, I was mistaken in referring to Katara and Sokka as Asian and corrected myself. But that doesn't change the issue at all. Non-whites lost roles to white people and a rationale that says "Well, this is clearly a fantasy setting so everyone is without ethnicity" is absolutely racist. Not "racial slur" racist, but the product of a de-facto racist institution.

If you truly want to understand why this casting is particularly upsetting, start by visiting the blog that rockmanj linked to earlier: http://www.racebending.com/v3/featur...rimer/#casting

Again, I was criticizing Animeniax's comments and who he specifically felt lost the roles to the whites.

"Well, this is clearly a fantasy setting so everyone is without ethnicity" <--- Not the case being argued. What I argue, if anything, is that people shouldn't limit themselves to a certain nation in a fantasy world needs to be depicted solely by a certain ethnicity in the real life. Particularly in a cartoon. The ethnicity is owned by the fantasy world, not by real world restrinctions.

What matters here, when a fantasy world is concerned, is physical resemblance and that's all. Wether the actors are actually Asian/White/Black, etc. I couldn't care less, and neither should anyone else.

The guy playing Aang looks the part. The other 3 don't. That's the bottom line. It has nothing to do with Asian people getting shafted, particularly "yellow" people by white people as some have mentioned. I point out SOME, not you, SOME.

The only "yellow" role one could argue that was shafted here got shafted by a brown fellow.

But I have to point out once again, that you don't seem to be reading what I'm saying clearly. I'm not defending the casting choices, except that I like the Aang one... I'm criticizing some of the rationalizations by some. Again, I don't like some of these casting, but it has nothing to do with Asians not getting those roles. It's simply that they don't resemble the part they're playing, that's the bottom line.

[Sapphire]

Again, I was criticizing Animeniax's comments and who he specifically felt lost the roles to the whites.

"Well, this is clearly a fantasy setting so everyone is without ethnicity" <--- Not the case being argued. What I argue, if anything, is that people shouldn't limit themselves to a certain nation in a fantasy world needs to be depicted solely by a certain ethnicity in the real life. Particularly in a cartoon. The ethnicity is owned by the fantasy world, not by real world restrinctions.

I never thought about it this way. Good point.

[Assassin]

interesting link xan.....did not know that. But again, things like these are to be expected. its like me saying there's alot of jews in hollywood...next time you watch a movie, at the end count the number of jewish names during the credits.

life's unfair, and most minorties get the short end of the stick most, if not all the time.

[XanBcoo]

But I have to point out once again, that you don't seem to be reading what I'm saying clearly. I'm not defending the casting choices, except that I like the Aang one... I'm criticizing some of the rationalizations by some. Again, I don't like some of these casting, but it has nothing to do with Asians not getting those roles. It's simply that they don't resemble the part they're playing, that's the bottom line.

No, I am reading and understand perfectly well what you're saying, nor am I taking your arguments personally. You're just missing the point and I'm explaining exactly why, in this case, the ethnicity of the actors and characters is a really big deal.

I never thought about it this way. Good point.

No it's not. How does any of that refute my summation of his argument that fantasy characters are without ethnicity?

I agreed with Munsu when the film in question was Dragonball, and I would agree if it were Naruto. But the characters in the cartoon show are intentionally Asian/Inuit. They are fake Asians living in fake Asia. Giving them blue eyes doesn't magically make them not brown or negate every other cultural characteristic that the creator gave them.

[Munsu]

The characters in the cartoon show are intentionally Asian/Inuit. Giving them blue eyes doesn't magically make them not brown or negate every other cultural characteristic that the creator gave them.

Yep, but it doesn't mean that they have to played by Asians/Inuits. They should be played by people that resemble the characters, and that should be it.

That the actors are white is besides the point. The bottom line is that they don't look the part period.

[XanBcoo]

Yep, but it doesn't mean that they have to played by Asians/Inuits. They should be played by people that resemble the characters, and that should be it.

Alright, I'll meet you halfway and leave it at this.

Though it certainly is sad that they weren't even considered in the casting call, which specifically asked for white people. Out of context it's at least somewhat permissible, but we're talking about a massive trend in cinema where Asian males in particular are typecast and passed up in favor of a more marketable ethnicity.

There is literally no hope for an Asian American to ever be cast as a protagonist in a movie where he's not a stereotype if you can't even get an Asian kid to play an Asian kid in The Last Airbender.

[animus]

Aang's actor looks nothing like Aang. Just sayin'.

I don't see why they can't typecast a fantasy setting with real world parallels. Sure there aren't many dark/tanned skin people with blue eyes. Why don't they just get tan skinned actors, and give them colored contact lens? Unthinkable, right?

The cultural inspirations are glaringly obvious, and I don't see why they didn't just recreate it besides marketability. The Air Temple has Shaolin inspirations out the wazoo, same with the Southern Water Tribe with the Inuit, Fire Nation with Han Dynasty Chinese. A bit unsure about the Earth Nation.

I feel a lot of the actual draw, and amount of immersion I'd get from a film like this is lessened immensely because they didn't cater to be as close to the original vision as possible, and instead chose to go for better marketability or some director's own folly.

[Assassin]

Let me just point out that all the nations and characters look 'asian' because the tv series was drawn in the anime style which makes everything inherently asian. (you can also argue that, just like how dragon ball fans complained everyone should've been asian cuz its japaense cartoon, everyone in avatar should be white cuz its an american cartoon.....i dont agree with it, but the logic is the same.....but i digress)

Now i agree that the air nomads resemble shaolin/tibetan monks and the fire nation look very chinese.....but i also agree with munsu that Aang looks the part perfectly, so it doesn't matter if hes white or brown or yellow.

As far as Sokka and Katara are concerned....ya they had brown skin in the cartoon, but they were shown as an inuit culture (plus, you know...living at the poles)....i dont know any brown skined inuits, or indians that live at the south pole. So to say that they should be played by asians or some other ethnicity is ridiculous cuz they dont resemble any particular ethnicity. If anything, they looked more like tanned/mixed white kids if you take away the cultural clothing.

[Animeniax]

Let me just point out that all the nations and characters look 'asian' because the tv series was drawn in the anime style which makes everything inherently asian. (you can also argue that, just like how dragon ball fans complained everyone should've been asian cuz its japaense cartoon, everyone in avatar should be white cuz its an american cartoon.....i dont agree with it, but the logic is the same.....but i digress)

Check the link Xan posted. It will refute almost everything you just posted.

[XanBcoo]

Pretty much. But just to clarify...

As far as Sokka and Katara are concerned....ya they had brown skin in the cartoon, but they were shown as an inuit culture (plus, you know...living at the poles)....i dont know any brown skined inuits, or indians that live at the south pole. So to say that they should be played by asians or some other ethnicity is ridiculous cuz they dont resemble any particular ethnicity. If anything, they looked more like tanned/mixed white kids if you take away the cultural clothing.

Why, then, was the rest of the water village cast as brown people? Specifically, why did they then ask for "Near Eastern, Middle Eastern, Far Eastern, Asian, Mediterranean, and Latino," people who were told to "look like a Ukrainian villager or whatever"?

[Sapphire]

So there's a million reasons why people from X tribe should be Y race and a million reasons why they should be X race and a million reasons why they should be A race... because the fantasy characters bear characteristics from cultures from all over the world!

I think Munsu is basically saying that especially when you are considering a "high fantasy" world (a world not based off of earth), arguments about what race they have to be in the IRL movie are both infinite and futile. You guys aren't going to find an exact match of the race IRL because it doesn't exist lol. The creators made the race and all of it's characteristics up. This is why Munsu said there is a difference between "fantasy" and "reality" and trying to mix them up won't work.

I don't understand how this is personally offensive either. Even if the movie was 100% Asians Blacks Whites Oranges Purples, it's not like the movie is being shoved in our faces and stealing our tax dollars (okay maybe it's doing the second one, *shakes fist at damn gov*).
----------------------------------
Anyway, It seems like everyone is making race the biggest issue of the movie. It's sort of sad because I'd like to talk about CGI or even the plot....

Spoiler vid: Looks awesome. Not sure about the acting, but everything else looks phenomenal.

Edit: Actually, after the acting... maybe I won't see this in theatres... bleh.
Edit2: But it's so pretty! And martial arts!

[Animeniax]

It could be a million reasons but we know it really is just one when it comes to Hollywood and race: $.

[Sapphire]

That's very likely to be true, sadly.

[XanBcoo]

I think Munsu is basically saying that especially when you are considering a "high fantasy" world (a world not based off of earth), arguments about what race they have to be in the IRL movie are both infinite and futile.

The show is advertised by Nickelodeon as “set in a fantastical Asian world” and is described by the writers themselves as taking place in “an ancient, fantastical Asian environment, primarily Chinese.” The show features heroes of color

Though it certainly is sad that they weren't even considered in the casting call, which specifically asked for white people. Out of context it's at least somewhat permissible, but we're talking about a massive trend in cinema where Asian males in particular are typecast and passed up in favor of a more marketable ethnicity.

There is no argument that this isn't racist. Anyway, I said I'd stop the derail several posts ago, so I'm just quoting what I've already said.

[Assassin]

Why, then, was the rest of the water village cast as brown people? Specifically, why did they then ask for "Near Eastern, Middle Eastern, Far Eastern, Asian, Mediterranean, and Latino," people who were told to "look like a Ukrainian villager or whatever"?

That i was not aware of, and given that additional information, it does become blatantly racist...But in this case i'd argue if you're going to go that route, mite as well go all out racist. Cast the whole village as white and be done with it....then again, hollywood is retarded.

[rockmanj]

http://splinterend.tumblr.com/post/7...0/facepainting

[Assassin]

Ok well, while all this controversial talk is interesting lets get back to the movie.