Naruto Chapter 428

[Assertn]

I think it's pretty obvious that Konohamaru learned Rasengan easily BECAUSE of Naruto's kage bunshin trick. Just as Bud said, Naruto was the first one to discover that trick, which is why it was considered a much more difficult jutsu to perform before him.

Also, Kakashi doesn't have a problem combining elemental composition with chakra form. The reason he can't make a Rai-sengan is because the two are simply incompatible. A swirling ball of chakra doesn't evolve with just ANY element. Naruto's wind affinity is the ONLY reason he was able to develop the rasengan further than anyone before him.

[DB_Hunter]

Where was that said?

[NeoCybercoin]

It was said that the Rasengan was incomplete and the 4th was going to add his own element. But as far as we know he could have had 2 to 3 elements. Maybe he did want to add wind, maybe fire or maybe Electricity.

I don't think that it would cause any trouble if you add Electricity to Rasengan.

[Uberbaka]

Well, naruto learned the rasengan before they did the whole affinity test, right?

[SilentSnake]

The way I see it Assertn meant mixing regular rasengan with affinity different than wind.

Tbh, just like DB_Hunter, I'm curious where was that said.

I'd have to agree that the "spinning" part of rasengan can be easily associated with "wind" affinity, but I see no reason for rasengan to be "incompatible" with other affinities.

Yeah, It could be dumb (rasengan + fire = wtf? how would that work?) or incredibly chakra consuming (rasengan + lightning = prolly mass dmg + fckn HUGE chakra cost) but I guess it would be POSSIBLE. Another option is I/We don't have enough imagination to come up with a technique that makes any sense when the above are mixed together.

[Death BOO Z]

The way I see it Assertn meant mixing regular rasengan with affinity different than wind.

Tbh, just like DB_Hunter, I'm curious where was that said.

I'd have to agree that the "spinning" part of rasengan can be easily associated with "wind" affinity, but I see no reason for rasengan to be "incompatible" with other affinities.

Yeah, It could be dumb (rasengan + fire = wtf? how would that work?) or incredibly chakra consuming (rasengan + lightning = prolly mass dmg + fckn HUGE chakra cost) but I guess it would be POSSIBLE. Another option is I/We don't have enough imagination to come up with a technique that makes any sense when the above are mixed together.

fire spin. there's already a pokemon attack assorted with.
bubble blaster. thunder ball.

the only element that doesn't fit is ground element, and if you push hard enough, you can probably find a word that matches the case.


I feel that all this chapter has done was downgrade Naruto into a character who's only real asset is the demon and the after effects of it. all of his ninja accomplishments turn out to be shit (whenever he's awesome, it turns out that the kyuubi made it possible, and other times, it's revealed that his accomplishments are incredibly easy), he usually figures out the obvious solution months after every internet fandom has gone through them.

he's turning into a distant, shadow of his former character. or rather, he's becoming closer to a shonen series hero prototype and farther than an original character. all he has going for him is a plot device mechanism and the ability to shonen-heart people into sacrificing their lives in battle for him.


but enough of that, here are some rumblings about the chidori.
shouldn't the chidori be one of the more stable attacks\elements? electricity is pretty much the only thing you can keep 'charged', so why does it seem so chackra wasteful? clouds have strong electricity charges, and they're the trademark of peace and tranquility. shouldn't it be possible for some ninja to make his entire body in 'wires' that circulate the electricity until it using it?


bahha, screw all this elements crap. it was stupid when it was introduced, it's stupid now and it's making me write stupid things.

[Assertn]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/321/10/

The 4th created it with the intent of applying his elemental composition into it....however, it was impossible for him to do. Same thing for Kakashi, which is why Kakashi developed raikiri instead. Considering how rare wind affinity is among konoha nins, it makes sense to me that this is why only Naruto has been able to bring the rasengan this far.

[DB_Hunter]

Where did you get the idea that wind affinity was rare in Konoha? I seriously don't know where you are pulling all these ideas from, the only people we have even seen with elemental affinities are Kakashi, Naruto, Sasuke and Yamato. There is a whole village out there and for all we know half of them have wind affinity.

[Tyreal]

If if Kakashi could only make one then that would be enough, as his chakra control is good enough to create a normal rasengan as it is.

what do u take Kakashi's sentence here to mean then? I took it to mean he can't control his shadow clones as well as Naruto. By that I mean that each shadow clone can't manage their responsibility of either shape, nature or output correctly relative to the other clones, of course this is just my interpretation and speculation on my part. But the point is Kakashi has said that neither he or even the fourth would be be able to accomplish this in the same way Naruto did.

Where did you get the idea that wind affinity was rare in Konoha?

Well considering it was actually said by Asuma in the manga I'd take it as fact that it is rare.

[DB_Hunter]

You got me there. Seriously despite that thought Kakashi's claim to not being able to do good Kagebunshins sounds like BS to me, made up at the time to make Naruto looking even stronger. It doesn't sit well with the way his character has been developed throughout the manga as being a genius who is don at everything except chakra levels.

[Munsu]

What Kakashi said was that it would be impractical for someone like him to use Kagebunshin to train because he doesn't have the amount of chakra Naruto has. Instead of helping him train, it would work against him. He was simply saying that he couldn't use the Kagebunshin trick to train... not that he wasn't able to control Kagebunshins.

[DB_Hunter]

That would make more sense. But surely then even with fewer clones than Naruto but coupled with his vastly superior natural ability, sure Kakashi should be able to figure out what to do? Even if it takes him a few months rather than a week..?

[Tyreal]

What Kakashi said was that it would be impractical for someone like him to use Kagebunshin to train because he doesn't have the amount of chakra Naruto has. Instead of helping him train, it would work against him. He was simply saying that he couldn't use the Kagebunshin trick to train... not that he wasn't able to control Kagebunshins.

Maybe so but from how I read that he was referring to how Naruto used his shadow clones to create the Rasenshuriken, not the training thing since he talked about the tarining thing several chapters earlier. This is supported even more by the fact that at the time Naruto had only created 2 clones rather than the 100's he was using when he was actually training. This is because it took place right after Kakashi done the looking left and right example for Naruto.

[David Craft]

Hey guys, Here is my gist on why kage bushin is a big deal (and possibly a forbidden jitsu) and the whole deal with the chakra requirement.

Since this technique divides your chakra its not THIS TECHNIQUE that would kill you but the next one. (which if you are fighting their will PROB BE a 'next one'

Take Kakashi for example, he could only do 4 chidori's a day... now this means if he made like 4 shadow clones then tried to do a chidori, he would prob use up ALL his chakra and possibly die.

If he made one shadow clone, got it destroyed and made a second one... the same result would happen.

And these numbers come from a fresh start not mid battle.

In short, ppl liek Kakashi cannot use many of Naruto's kagebushin strategies at all in a serious battle or risk dividing their chakra up far to much to make the next move.

Now I know that the wind rasengan of naruto's took allot out of even him (it said that he at first could only get one a day, then he pushed it to 3 ) so with some one like Kakashi could never pull this off with a shadow clone's help as that alone just divided his chakra in half... again assuming he does this right from the start.

Also you can understand why they don't like to teach the kage bushin technique to just any one... Some one w/o MUCH experience in battle and their own chakra levels would EASILY kill themselves by going overboard. Naruto again is just the exception.

~David

[Assertn]

Where did you get the idea that wind affinity was rare in Konoha? I seriously don't know where you are pulling all these ideas from, the only people we have even seen with elemental affinities are Kakashi, Naruto, Sasuke and Yamato. There is a whole village out there and for all we know half of them have wind affinity.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/317/17/

Feel free to stop doubting me at any time, ok? :]

[DB_Hunter]

You got me there.

Feel free to stop taking this personally, I have already accepted that I got this wrong.

[darkshadow]

The way I see it Assertn meant mixing regular rasengan with affinity different than wind.

Tbh, just like DB_Hunter, I'm curious where was that said.

I'd have to agree that the "spinning" part of rasengan can be easily associated with "wind" affinity, but I see no reason for rasengan to be "incompatible" with other affinities.

Yeah, It could be dumb (rasengan + fire = wtf? how would that work?) or incredibly chakra consuming (rasengan + lightning = prolly mass dmg + fckn HUGE chakra cost) but I guess it would be POSSIBLE. Another option is I/We don't have enough imagination to come up with a technique that makes any sense when the above are mixed together.

Jiraiya can do a fire rasengan, cept its not really a rasengan infused with fire, he just blows fire on top of it, so it spins around the rasengan.

[Wren]

Jiraiya can do a fire rasengan, cept its not really a rasengan infused with fire, he just blows fire on top of it, so it spins around the rasengan.

curious, but when does jiraiya do a "fire" rasengan? i remember the regular, the oodama that naruto used, the bs rasen shuriken, and the huge one that jiraiya used vs Pain. is the one you speak of in a game perhaps? if i've missed one do point it out.

[Marik]

lol, I was wondering the same. I've only seen Fire Style: Flame Rasengan in Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3.

[UChessmaster]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/321/10/

The 4th created it with the intent of applying his elemental composition into it....however, it was impossible for him to do. Same thing for Kakashi, which is why Kakashi developed raikiri instead. Considering how rare wind affinity is among konoha nins, it makes sense to me that this is why only Naruto has been able to bring the rasengan this far.

Naruto didn`t managed to do it because he has wind element and thus makes it easier, he did it because he used shadow clones, i don`t see how any other element wouldn`t work.

You`re assuming yondaime didn`t managed to do it because his element is incompatible, wich is not stated on the manga as far as i know, here are some potential reasons.

A) Incompatibility as you said.

B) Coudln`t find a way to add his element without clones just like naruto.

C) Didn`t had enough training time because he was either busy with his pregnant wife/being hokage/dead.

D) He discovered World of Warcraft.

E) Decided Rasengan was strong enough as it is and decided to move on to make/improve other techniques.