*sigh*
Abdula... remember a Kage Bunshin splits your chackra... too much of them and you can die.
Naruto can make tons because of his freakish chackra storage.
Its impressive that Konohamaru can do it because he is just a normal genin.
Combine it with a Jutsu that requieres tons of control and chakra...
And he is still standing afterwards.
Yes. Anyone can make those two jutsus. But they requiere so much chackra they can kill whoever uses them without control.
Yeah yeah RZ. The amount of control and chakra involved in the rasengan has been greatly exaggerated the fact that Naruto managed to learn it is proof enough. Besides as I've argued before the amount of chakra and thus the power of each rasengan should be different. All Jiraiya said was that you have to put your maximum chakra output into it, so naturally the maximum output Naruto can produce and the maximum Konohamaru can produce will be different. Much like shadow clones. the amount of chakra in one of Naruto's shadow clones and the amount in one of Konohamaru's shadow clones will be very different. So really saying rasengan requires tons of chakra and control isn't saying much. The shadow clone is used to skirt the need for perfect chakra control and the amount of chakra is different for each user. So unless someone comes out and says you need to have X amount of chakra before you can use rasengan, I'm not buying it.
Oh and speaking of shadow clones. Shadow clone is a b-ranked/chuunin level technique and I believe it was mentioned before that most chuunin level ninjas know it, though I'm not sure where. The technique Naruto learned from the book was the mass shadow clone technique.
Last edited by Abdula; Fri, 12-12-2008 at 11:55 AM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Don't forget Naruto is the son of the 4th... his talent should not be underestimated. I've always understood his lack of advancement to be partially due to the Kyuubi limiting his ability to control his own chakra. (Though that is my own opinion and I don't know that it is explicitly stated anywhere in the manga)Originally Posted by Abdula
His clumsiness and lack of stealthiness should not be confused with a lack of talent for Ninjutsu.
When Naruto fought Neji in the 2nd part of the Chuunin exam a Jounin in the crowd said it was a Jounin-level ability. I don't think Kage bunshin and Taju Kage Bunshin are different techniques, one merely uses more chakra to make more clones. Neither have been stated as being forbidden techniques, they just happened to be in the scroll of seals that also happened to have forbidden techniques in it.
Actually it was stated that Kage Bushin is a forbidden technique. Anyway Kage Bushin, Taju Kage Bushin.
And it was also said that Naruto lacks talent.
Not trying to argue with you, just saying, it was said. Thats the problem here, far too many contradictions.
Last edited by Abdula; Fri, 12-12-2008 at 04:24 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Where the hell does narutobase get their intel from? Cause i never heard of death by shadow clone or both of those being different jutsus.
Has for naruto lacking talent... the fact that he has so much chakra and still only uses 2 or 3 jutsus should be proof enough of that.
It's always irritated me that neither him or his teacher ever tried to use his massive chakra reserves for something more constructive than shadow clone + rasengan combos. I mean imagine how the smallest wind jutsu would be incredibly destructive when multiplied by 2000 !!
Its not death by shadow clone, they would die if they used up too much chakra. Its the same thing Kakashi warned Sasuke about when he taught him chidori and its the exact same thing thats happening to Kakashi now. He simply used too much and there is an increased risk of that happening when someone uses shadow clones.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Explain how.
The kage bunshin no jutsu splits your chakra in equal amounts by the clones. In that case wouldn't a move like the chidori or the MS be alot more dangerous since they spend alot of chakra all at once?
But in the first chapter of Naruto you see him doing Kage Bunshin and he makes like..a thousand or something. Thats just normal Kage Bunshin.
Kage Bunshin No Jutsu
Cant recall it well if they did it in the manga but in the Anime you clearly hear him say Taju Kage Bunshin No Jutsu in the latest episode and he makes 2 or 3 clones.
just when I thought kishi couldn't belittle naruto any furthur this crap happenes. Of all the things kishi could of come up with why ransengan and KB? Damn if was really out of ideas he could make konohamaru summoned Enma, it would of made more sense. I can't believe konohamaru uses KB better then naruto does lol
I also think, and this is following Dragon Ball logic, that once going Super Saiyan was for Goku only then Fajita (forget about the monkey mode and legendary and even their ancestories for a second) and then later on even the kids could do SS2 and SS3 and Fusion. So the thinking is as time goes on, A ranks are doable by younger Ninjas and that what was once OMFG amazing, isn't anymore. Someone said it best, we now have a candidate for Naruto GT.
Just my two cents.
To me, Tajuu Kage Bunshin and Kage Bunshin are the same thing. The Tajuu just emphasizes on the amount of clones created, which is why I don't get why Naruto adds the Tajuu these days even when making 3 clones.
And yes, Tajuu (多重) simply means multiple(s).
"Our hearts are full of memories but not all of them reflect the truth. The heart isn't a recording device. Even important memories change with time. They warp or fade, leaving us with but a shadow of what we hoped to remember." 天の道を行き、全てを司る。これは僕の世界。
I don't get why konohamaru did anything better then naruto, naruto has suprised plenty of ppl to overcome odds, even in the very first arc against zabuza, the fuma shuriken kage bunshin was far more impressive to me then what konohamaru did here.
Also konohamaru practically did an Oodama rasengan..........without the oodama, heck it was even much tinier then naruto's normal rasengan when he himself was konohamaru's age (plus naruto learned the technique in a week), so no, Konohamaru still has a long way to go before actually "outdoing" naruto.
Also, who says the Akaktsuki member is dead? It didn't look damaging enough to actually kill a body that is....well already dead.
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Kage Bunshin is not forbidden... the Tajuu Kage Bunshin is the only one that is forbidden.
Also, we had already seen Konohamaru do the Kage Bunshin before. Kage Bunshin is simply a jounin-level jutsu.
Last edited by Munsu; Sat, 12-13-2008 at 09:19 AM.
Or we can just accept that Kishi has developed a plot hole by giving a two bit character one of the most powerful techniques in the show. We spent so many episodes/chapters on Naruto learning the rasengan with all the associated "damn that's impossible, he must be destined as Hokage if he can do that" crap. Also, why the hell did Naruto act so surprised that Kakashi could do the rasengan during his wind element training if a fool like Konohamaru could by now?
As for the Pein vs Konohamaru "battle", there is no way that a ninja of Pein's level should have been caught out by a stupid feign manouver using Kage Bunshin, and that too by a Genin.
The whole thing just sucks, Naruto has now officially become shit.
I'm pretty sure that the first guy to make fire seemed like a genius. After that, many people could make fire.
It's the same with jutsus. Techiniques, training, etc. get perfected so that lesser people might be able to use it.
I think the most important part of Naruto is not that he can use the Rasengan, but in the way that he managed to accomplish it.
I would disagree, because then that's true of every technique. No one call's Henge or Kawarimi A-rank, and the difficulty of a technique isn't determined by the number of existing users.
That's not what I meant at all. All I'm saying is that regardless of how difficult of a technique it is, as time passes people find ways to do them easier. It's pretty much true everywhere. That's why sports records fall constantly. Some last more than others, but they're still broken. Just look at the olympics last year and all the swimming records that were broken.
True, but then there are other factors you need to consider if you are drawing an analogy with stuff like olympics or even any other thing that is improved upon. In olympics or sports in general for example, there is advancements in the fields of diets/nutrition, understanding of physiology, biology etc. In the case of this jutsu, there has been no improvement or 'research' done in any of these areas and Konohamaru has just picked this up.
The only thing you could argue that has been improved upon the 4th's original technique is the use of Kage Bunshin's to do the rasengan, which does make it easier. But if this was not realised by the 4th, Jiraiya or Kakashi, how much could you really say that these were geniuses? By that virture also, anyone who can do Kage Bunshin (or any other bunshin like Suna or Mizu) should be able to do a rasengan.
Therefore the overall 'unique' effect of the rasengan is still lost. I don't understand why even at this point Kakashi doesn't use Kage Bunshin to add his eletricity element to the Rasengan like Naruto did for wind.
This might not be cannon since I can't remember if he said it in the manga or not but Kakashi did say that he wouldn't be able to control his shadow clones well enough to use them in the same way that Naruto does. Not to mention Kakashi also has a relatively low chakara capacity compared to Naruto and one thing we do know is that using and maintaining shadow clones uses up a lot of chakara.
The point about shadow clones using chakra is more about needing quite a bit to make a large number, not about how well you can control them. If if Kakashi could only make one then that would be enough, as his chakra control is good enough to create a normal rasengan as it is.
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