Naruto Shippuuden Episode 85

[Abdula]

Okay Assertn why would villages put bounties on people's heads and have guys at exchange points to pay guys like Kakuzu for killing people, when the villages themselves have both the means and the motive to kill them. Early in the series the Third said one of the things the villages are often hired to do is perform assassinations, so why when they themselves need someone killed would they turn to outsourcing. They couldn't possibly be making a profit by paying out millions of dollars per corpse when they could have sent their own ninjas to do the job.

Hell aren't the anbu there for the purpose of performing assassinations, I mean they are the Special Assassination and Tactical Squad after all. We already saw that Sai's job prior to joining team Kakashi was assassinating people who were deemed a threat to the village and it was said that Kakashi's raikiri was created specifically for performing assassinations.

I can't see any reason why it would be necessary for the villages to place bounties on anyone's head. Besides its not as if we've seen anything that suggests that the villages are the ones placing bounties on people heads. Its not as if Kakuzu said, X village has a bounty on your head. In fact right here its says it was an underground organization that placed the bounties on their heads.

[Assertn]

The underground organization just acts as a medium to facilitate the bounty hunter trade. They probably serve as an unbiased trade center, and Konoha probably utilizes them as much as anyone else would (why else would Konoha know the locations of the 5 nearest drop-off points?)

Anyone could issue bounties, but the most likely candidates are villages and countries.
We already know that a country leader can buy services from ninjas outside of their respective village, as explained during the sand village coup against Konoha.

Plus, the entire Naruto world's economy is driven primarily by combat and fighting power.
How many ninjas from other villages have Kakashi killed? How much does that affect the village those ninjas belonged to? The consequences of losing men are both emotional and financial. If you had the opportunity of substantially increasing the number of assassins against a specific threat, wouldn't you offer money to do so? If one of your own subordinates by chance takes down the threat, then you can save the bounty fee.

If Konoha isn't offering bounties on Akatsuki and Orochimaru, I'd be really surprised.

[DarthEnderX]

I don't think its accurate to assume that the ninja villages are that wealthy enough to offer massive bounties.

Everything we've seen about Konoha seems to suggest that they bust their ass just to keep that place running.

Meanwhile, the Naruto world seems to have plenty of yazuka-type organizations and corrupt nobles that probably have the kind of disposable income and shinobi enemies to warrant having a bounty system.

I mean, pretty much the first bounty we ever see in the series is the bridge builder's from Gato's organization.

[Assertn]

Konoha busts their ass to maintain their position of power and respect.

But yeah, I'm not saying that only villages utilize the bounty system.
Also, I don't see much of a difference in daimyos offering bounties vs kages offering bounties. As far as I can tell, both share a common economy

[Jessper]

Everything we've seen about Konoha seems to suggest that they bust their ass just to keep that place running.

But them trying hard to keep up could include bounty fees they payout on occasion.

[Azonalanthious]

I would shy away from the idea of villages offering bounties on just anyone - as already pointed out, they could just use their own ninja for it. On the other hand, I could see them offering bounties for really tough targets. If you were the Village Hidden in the Mist, for example, would you want to risk, and possibly loose, some of your best jonin trying to take out someone like Kakashi? Or would you rather just pay some other poor smucks to take the losses?

One way I could see the whole system working is for it to be run by an underground organization who combines multiple bids - so its not person x saying "I'll pay 5 mil for you to kill Asuma"; its person A contacting this organization and saying "I'll toss 50,000 in if you get rid of Asuma", then person B contacts them and says "Asuma interfered with my operation, add 20,000 from me to the bounty", then person c adds say 75,000, and so on and so forth until you end up with the 5 mil.

If someone actually HAS 5 mil and considers it worth spending it all to take out Asuma, they go to a village and hire an assasination mission, which is probably going to be more reliable and faster. But if they don't have that much or aren't willing to spend it, they contact the bounty organization and put down what they can afford in an effort to encourage folks to take him down without having to pay for a full assasination.

[DarthEnderX]

One way I could see the whole system working is for it to be run by an underground organization who combines multiple bids - so its not person x saying "I'll pay 5 mil for you to kill Asuma"; its person A contacting this organization and saying "I'll toss 50,000 in if you get rid of Asuma", then person B contacts them and says "Asuma interfered with my operation, add 20,000 from me to the bounty", then person c adds say 75,000, and so on and so forth until you end up with the 5 mil.

That'd be a pretty smart way to do it. I've never heard of anyone doing it that way though.

[Kraco]

It indeed would be. But like you said yourself, the world seems to be rife with crime organizations and corruption, so it could work. After all, you need a big bounty for the real mofos to get interested, and small-time customers individually might not have the money needed. Even if the organizer claims like a 15% cut, it could still accumulate enough for everybody to get things going, assuming its common knowledge such a system exists. And since we are talking about bounties, nobody loses money unless the deed is actually done.

[Archangel]

He really hasnt mentioned ressurection of his clan in a long time, and if he really wants to do that he is going to need to make a bunch of babies, and even then, they will only be half Uchiha.

So the only way for someone to be a true uchiha is through inbreeding...?

[KrayZ33]

Okay Assertn why would villages put bounties on people's heads and have guys at exchange points to pay guys like Kakuzu for killing people, when the villages themselves have both the means and the motive to kill them. Early in the series the Third said one of the things the villages are often hired to do is perform assassinations, so why when they themselves need someone killed would they turn to outsourcing. They couldn't possibly be making a profit by paying out millions of dollars per corpse when they could have sent their own ninjas to do the job.

Hell aren't the anbu there for the purpose of performing assassinations, I mean they are the Special Assassination and Tactical Squad after all. We already saw that Sai's job prior to joining team Kakashi was assassinating people who were deemed a threat to the village and it was said that Kakashi's raikiri was created specifically for performing assassinations.

I can't see any reason why it would be necessary for the villages to place bounties on anyone's head. Besides its not as if we've seen anything that suggests that the villages are the ones placing bounties on people heads. Its not as if Kakuzu said, X village has a bounty on your head. In fact right here its says it was an underground organization that placed the bounties on their heads.

even today states put bounty on peoples "heads" when the police isn't able to get him/them...

I don't see why countries in the Narutoverse wouldn't use bounty.. just because they have ANBU?

Hell who cares, if a person is greedy and can draw out the "bounty" into the open (by acting like a friend) it'll alot easier for ANBU to kill him... and the person will be paid for doing so.

And it's a lot more stressful when the bounty has to fear bountyhunters in ther own town... and the country doesn't have to use it's own soldiers, which means that they don't have to fear losing them during the assassination mission..

[DarthEnderX]

even today states put bounty on peoples "heads" when the police isn't able to get him/them...

I don't see why countries in the Narutoverse wouldn't use bounty.. just because they have ANBU?

First of all, the countries and the ninja villages are not the same thing. That's why there's a Hokage and a Lord of the Country of Fire. I can totally see Country of Fire nobles putting bounties on people while I can't see Konoha doing the same thing.

Secondly, I'm sticking with the argument "because they can't afford to". Ninjas get paid to kill people. They don't pay others to kill people.

It's like a plumber paying someone else to do his plumbing cause he doesn't feel like it.

[Assertn]

First of all, the countries and the ninja villages are not the same thing. That's why there's a Hokage and a Lord of the Country of Fire. I can totally see Country of Fire nobles putting bounties on people while I can't see Konoha doing the same thing.

Secondly, I'm sticking with the argument "because they can't afford to". Ninjas get paid to kill people. They don't pay others to kill people.

It's like a plumber paying someone else to do his plumbing cause he doesn't feel like it.

You mean like how Kabuto helped out Sakura so they can go off and kill more akatsuki to save him and Oro from having to do it themselves?

It's just a means of outsourcing tasks that either aren't of imminent concern or practical to pursue. Unless Kakashi tries to storm the mist village himself, they're not going to waste men hunting him down. If they can create a few more enemies for Kakashi to deal with instead, then that should suffice. You guys are all freaking out about $M overheads for bounties, but that figure is probably a drop in the bucket for a large village.

Maybe I just see things differently than everyone else here cause nobody has much business sense on this forum...

Also:
A plumber paying someone else to do his plumbing is a successful business man.

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, but he's also lazy, or an incompetent plumber. One of those is keeping him from doing his own plumbing. I don't think a ninja village is either for those things.

(either lazy or incompetent that is, not a plumber).

[animus]

Yeah, but he's also lazy, or an incompetent plumber. One of those is keeping him from doing his own plumbing. I don't think a ninja village is either for those things.

(either lazy or incompetent that is, not a plumber).

You have much to learn.

[Kagari]

Maybe I just see things differently than everyone else here cause nobody has much business sense on this forum...

Also:
A plumber paying someone else to do his plumbing is a successful business man.

I'm right there with ya, Assertn. Hey, how long have you been without the "Failure", by the way?

[tystic]

If the time you spend fixing your own plumbing could have been spent making more money than hiring another plumber would cost, it is better to hire.

Similarly, if sending shinobi to quell a situation removes them from another client, and the pay from that client is more than another village asks for settling the problem, it is wiser to hire from the other village.

[DarthEnderX]

You know what? I've officially lost interest in this argument.

[Abdula]

As have I, but I have to say this.

Maybe I just see things differently than everyone else here cause nobody has much business sense on this forum...

You should really try to keep your ego in check when you're posting. The only thing me and DE don't see is how the villages could possibly have that much money. We have seen nothing to suggest that any village has a large enough income that would allow them to be able to afford to pay out millions of dollars for bounties. As DE said, from what we've seen thus far and based on what the Akatsuki leader said it would seem that in this age where there are no ninja wars. Ninjas villages are struggling just to keep themselves afloat and the only reason the top five can maintain their position is because they are well respected and their countries are large enough to support them, i.e provide them with clients and missions. His entire plan is based on the fact that in this time of peace the villages are going broke and he is essentially going to create an army without allegiance to any country, that will take on any mission for as he put it, "a minor cost" thereby bankrupting the villages.

Your entire argument is based on the fact that you think the villages can afford to drop 30M on a bounty, which just doesn't seem likely.

I even pointed out where it explicitly said that it was an underground organization that put the bounties on Asuma's and Chiriku's heads but then you post this.

The underground organization just acts as a medium to facilitate the bounty hunter trade. They probably serve as an unbiased trade center, and Konoha probably utilizes them as much as anyone else would (why else would Konoha know the locations of the 5 nearest drop-off points?)

If the organization just acts as a medium to facilitate the bounties then whats the point of saying the organization put the bounties on their head. Why not just say X village put the bounty on their head.

Anyway, that is pretty much where you lost me.

A plumber paying someone else to do his plumbing is a successful business man.

Oh please. A plumber who pays other people an exorbitant fee to do a job he himself is capable of doing for significantly less, not to mention that he already has people in his employ for the specific purpose of performing said task, is a fool who won't be in business for long.

You know the biggest problem I have with your little theory Assertn is that it makes the villages look useless. To think that any of the big five villages are incapable of eliminating people who they themselves deem a threat to them is just ridiculous. Not to mention the unwanted consequences, you don't seem to see. Not only are the villages too weak to take care of their own interests but they are paying shady characters like bounty hunters ridiculous sums of money to do their jobs for them, and only creating an even greater potential threat.

I mean with all the money this underground organization would have pouring in whats to stop it from itself becoming a threat to the villages. And whats to stop enemies of a particular village from cashing in a bounty and then using that income to gain enough power and influence to turn around and attack that village using that very same village's money. I mean isn't that why Kakuzu was collecting bounties in the first place, to gather enough resources so Akatsuki can achieve their goal which ultimately is the destruction of the villages themselves. And surely Kakuzu and every Akatsuki member has a bounty too right. If the Akatsuki leader is going to use money paid out by the villages to bring them down then he is alot more devious that I thought.

(why else would Konoha know the locations of the 5 nearest drop-off points?)

Because they're ninjas and its their business to know whats going on in and around their village. I would be surprised if they didn't know where the drop off points were. Regardless of how pathetic Naruto makes ninjas seem they are still ninjas and they do have ninjas that specialize in many different fields be it reconnaissance, interrogation or assassinations.

[Uberbaka]

As have I, but I have to say this.
Your entire argument is based on the fact that you think the villages can afford to drop 30M on a bounty, which just doesn't seem likely.

Now I honestly don't find this discussion very interesting or remotely relevant to anything, but how do you know what kind of money they do or do not have? They build stone heads in mountains every time they change leader, who knows if they have to pay for that or not? There's too many unknown variables about how their economy works.

Do you even know what currency they have and how that would convert into whatever you think it is?

Your counterargument is based on the assumption they can't, and both arguments are flawed because they rely on assumptions.

Just give it a rest.

[Assertn]

Uberbaka, exactly. The bounty prices are completely arbitrary because we don't have any other frame of reference to currency in the series. For all we know $30M could be the price of a single B-ranked mission.

As have I, but I have to say this...

And you sure had a *lot* to say for someone who's tired of this discussion.

I even pointed out where it explicitly said that it was an underground organization that put the bounties on Asuma's and Chiriku's heads but then you post this.

If the organization just acts as a medium to facilitate the bounties then whats the point of saying the organization put the bounties on their head. Why not just say X village put the bounty on their head.

Anyway, that is pretty much where you lost me.

Semantics.

Oh please. A plumber who pays other people an exorbitant fee to do a job he himself is capable of doing for significantly less, not to mention that he already has people in his employ for the specific purpose of performing said task, is a fool who won't be in business for long.

What about a plumber whose employees are constantly being resourced and yet they still have a list of orders that they are struggling to fulfill...however they want to fulfill them in order to maintain their client-base? Thats pretty much been Konoha's position since Oro's invasion.

You know the biggest problem I have with your little theory Assertn is that it makes the villages look useless...etc etc...

You know the biggest problem I have with you thinking that a village is so incapable of contracting out $30M bounties is that it suggests that Chiriku's head alone is enough to make Akatsuki more financially powerful than Konoha.

Because they're ninjas and its their business to know whats going on in and around their village. I would be surprised if they didn't know where the drop off points were. Regardless of how pathetic Naruto makes ninjas seem they are still ninjas and they do have ninjas that specialize in many different fields be it reconnaissance, interrogation or assassinations.

They why not dispose of them to render the bounty incentives null?