Gundam 00 Season 2 Episode 06

[Kraco]

I hope Saji leaves the gundam side. I know a lot of people were pissed with Saji so far, but for some reason he wasn't that annoying as he was in the 6th eps. If you think about it in some messed up way saji was right, fighting will only bring more wars and hatred.

Until now Saji lived in a denial of reality. Like it has been said: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Fighting doesn't make the CB members good, their reason for fighting might.

No matter how good your intent is u're still a killer. I find it very ammusing that the gundam pilots all have this messed up reasoning that they will pay for their crimes once they finish wut they are starting again.

Yes, a war tends to make lots of killers. I also don't know what's particularly messed up about that reasoning (that I don't remember, though). It could be naive, but on the other hand many of them lost their families before joining the CB, which might give the basis for it.

During the first season I was hoping for the CB to lose, because they were nothing but terrorists, and the world seemed more or less normal. Now I'm rooting for the CB, because the world is lead by Ribbons from the shadows and it will only get worse unless he's stopped.

[Ryllharu]

I just watched all 6 eps. For some reason I still want the gundam side to lose. It feels like seed destiny all over again. I hope Saji leaves the gundam side. I know a lot of people were pissed with Saji so far, but for some reason he wasn't that annoying as he was in the 6th eps. If you think about it in some messed up way saji was right, fighting will only bring more wars and hatred. No matter how good your intent is u're still a killer. I find it very ammusing that the gundam pilots all have this messed up reasoning that they will pay for their crimes once they finish wut they are starting again.

I think Setsuna said it best to Saji, (paraphrasing) Just because life is peaceful somewhere, does that mean that only you get to experience peace and tranquility?

Someplace, somewhere, someone is suffering because there isn't any fighting going on. They simply don't have the power to resist. This is what is becoming more and more apparent in the world of 00 as the A-LAWs use their force to assault not those who oppose the Federation, but those who simply disagree or want to be left alone. The Middle East, Azadistan specifically, has been repeatedly abused by them. Marina was captured on fabricated grounds she was allied with Kataron because she refused to join the Federation.

Without conflict, those already in power will only take more of it. Wars may breed hatred, but the alternative is just as bad.

All of the Meistars know that they will never be forgiven for what they are doing.

[shinta|hikari]

Still, simply trying to obtain their goals while accepting the guilt that comes with it (which is far better than blindly believing yourself to be innocent and justified) is worthless without results. Until the CB actually does change the world for the better (meaning worth more than the cost of their sacrifice, opportunity cost included), I cannot give their methods my support. They just suck too much at it.

[Naruto_RNG]

You all made very good points, but there is no such a thing as a "War that ends all wars", unless everyone is killed. In some way the defeated side will be discriminated, and that will be the seed for a new conflict. I'm by no means a pacifist but history has shown time and time again that war only bring hatered, even the most noblest one.

@Ryllharu

Without conflict, those already in power will only take more of it. Wars may breed hatred, but the alternative is just as bad.

I would not really put the may there, it does bring hatred. Not pointing at you but some people just refuse to believe it does, and the to prove my point I dont have to point to a history book just take a look at Iraq. Greed is human nature. CB's goal then should be to exterminate the human race, not just selected few. No matter how good an individual is sooner or later he'll hunger for more. It is part of what we are. With all the technological advancment they have you would think one would attack this issue on biological level. I don't mean chemical weapons lol.

@Kraco

Now I'm rooting for the CB, because the world is lead by Ribbons from the shadows and it will only get worse unless he's stopped.

True I will not argue that. However, Wang Liu Mei, don't you think she has her own ulterior motives. CB is following her without questioning her motives. She did say she wants the world to change, and it does not matter who does it. Also she did agree with the actions of Trinity. If I was a person who wanted to change the world (gundams), I believe I would of check my back yard first before criticizing others, and how they run their business. She is acting like one of those sneaky final villians.

[Kraco]

Wang Liu Mei seems to be an agent of chaos, maybe as much as Ali but only more refined (because I doubt she enjoys actual combat personally). One other thing is that while we see her every now and then, the CB only received intel from her, and that is. Who knows when anybody from the CB core actually met her long enough to really see what she's like. This is also why she's so dangerous right now. I doubt the CB trusts her motives as such so deeply - their mutual trust is probably born out of fighting and training together, and surviving those fights - but they need the intel.

Mankind certainly has a tendency to wage war, but there are also exceptions: Long peaceful periods. Like right now it has been in many places ever since the end of the WWII. Which is also why I can't really understand the first season of Gundam. The world was in peace, even if in a somewhat tense peace. Why did the CB choose such a moment to begin their operation? Because it would make the peoples hate them even more, when they broke that peace? It's bloody hypocritical then to say they want to end wars.

Yeah, ending wars is pure ideology, but having even long periods of peace is not.

[Ryllharu]

Mankind certainly has a tendency to wage war, but there are also exceptions: Long peaceful periods. Like right now it has been in many places ever since the end of the WWII. Which is also why I can't really understand the first season of Gundam. The world was in peace, even if in a somewhat tense peace. Why did the CB choose such a moment to begin their operation? Because it would make the peoples hate them even more, when they broke that peace? It's bloody hypocritical then to say they want to end wars.

The world at large was at peace, but there were all too many places in the world that were not. The same places that have the issues today, in the real world. Sri Lanka, Congo (Gundam used African diamond mines), the Middle East, Pakistan, South America, etc. Places that are considered 3rd world, out of sight and out of mind by the advanced and more "civilized" nations of the world. Setsuna never knew peace in his childhood, Lockon knew of terrorism, Al/Hal knew of only being created for future conflicts.

I'm going to start sounding like a broken record repeating Setsuna's line to Saji about why it was fair for only him to live in a peaceful world.

The world is never at peace. Conflict will always exist. We are a primative and warlike race, who's greatest technological advancements flourish as a result of developing from conflicts. Conflicts with each other, with the environment, nature, and society. Like with so many works of fiction, a humanity unified in hating something else is the only humanity that is at peace with itself. CB's original plan was to fulfill that role. It worked, but the result backfired. The world remained divided enough to still oppress and hate each other. Those who took power took any means necessary to ensure their power became absolute.

[Kraco]

Yes, yes, I realise that. But it doesn't change the fact it's hypocritical to bring war to all of the world instead of isolated, small regions if your ideology is supposed to be to end all wars. Still, like has been said already, the whole mentality of the CB is somewhat twisted, so a little contradiction hardly means anything.

Of course my stance is far too realistic for a work of fiction. I don't know what kind of "no wars anymore" solution they will present at the end of the show. The truth is, though, just like you said, wars will never end totally, which brings me to my original point of aiming for periods of longer peace instead of some mumbo jumbo of totally removing wars. So far, however, the CB has done zilch to that direction, which means they aim for an ultimate solution, whatever that might be.

[6Zabuza9]

no gundam this week?

[Kraco]

There is Gundam this week, but apparently some staff members of BSS were busy with whatever, and the release is being delayed. The raws are there, though, so it should have surely aired.