Naruto Chapter 420

[Uchiha Barles]

I've had some theories that seemed too awesome to be true in the past, but I didn't bother saying them for that very reason, but they all turned out exactly as I thought they would. So, I'll go ahead and venture this theory here. If that thing that Pain stabbed kakashi with is a chakra modulator, then you might imagine that it'll change some of the properties of the chakra. I suspect it can do things like change the opponent's elemental affinity. That'd just wreak havoc on their ability to fight. Might also change the type of jutsu user the opponent is. As in, if the opponent were originally more suited to genjutsu type fighting, they may now be more taijutsu oriented after the effects of Pain's chakra modulation.

You guys remember the Itachi/Kisame clones? That was Pain's jutsu that made them possible. It might be that Pain used the chakra modulator on Itachi and Kisame in a discovery capacity, to learn the properties of their chakra. He could've then used the modulator on the henchmen to turn their chakra type into the same as Itachi and Kisame's. Since they seemed to really be Itachi and Kisame, chakra modulation might actually be able to change the person entirely...maybe. That's my theory for the day.

[Death BOO Z]

that seems reasonable enough, Payne may be the key for that clone fighters.
Which raises some question as to Zetsu eating all the clones...
maybe zetsu's 2nd voice is Payne's true body?

I'd like that to happen.

[DB_Hunter]

It's more likely that the chakra modulators in the henchmen were merely receieving the chakra being transmitted by Itachi and Kisame via Pein.

[Uchiha Barles]

Actually that's true. Was that demodulation device found in the body they autopsied? Anyway, yeah, Itachi and Kisame weren't actually participating in the summoning at the time the clone fights were occuring, so it really was them talking and fighting via the chakra modulator. If we're right, I wonder if Kishi had this explanation ready at the time he wrote that portion of the manga, because this seems actually well planned, and interesting.

[Archangel]

, I wonder if Kishi had this explanation ready at the time he wrote that portion of the manga, because this seems actually well planned, and interesting.

Wouldn't that mean that kishi planned something ahead instead of coming up with new shit from the top of his head like he does with every new chapter?

Edit for who bad repped me: What's with all the hate homie? I just enjoy bad mouthing the hell out of kishi

Seriously if anyone should get bad rep for kishi-trolling it should be abdula not me.

[DB_Hunter]

You know on a seperate note I was reading throught the chapters were the konoha crew killed Kakuzu, and it was explicitly stated there that Naruto was only halfway to completing his Wind rasengan... I think in this case we can assume that the true form of this jutsu is to throw it, and that is what Naruto was practicing just now.

[Archangel]

You know on a seperate note I was reading throught the chapters were the konoha crew killed Kakuzu, and it was explicitly stated there that Naruto was only halfway to completing his Wind rasengan... I think in this case we can assume that the true form of this jutsu is to throw it, and that is what Naruto was practicing just now.

No offense DB but i think most of us got that by now, we're just hoping we'll actually get to see a jutsu that isn't rasengan / shadow clones based coming from naruto.

But i'll never underestimate naruto's retardness, the jutsu may really be unthrowable.

[DB_Hunter]

Yeah of course... I guess in my mind the jury was still out, due to the fact that they couldn't possibly do a cheap Hadoken rip off.

But I guess they are going to.

[Uchiha Barles]

Hrmm...if Pain uses chakra modulation to control all the "realms", then the mechanism for defeating him might be revealed. Like, if only one person is doing the modulation and all the realms are equipped with demodulators, then that may be why finding the real Pain and defeating him would stop the others from acting. Also, the key to defeat any of the individual realms might be to just remove their demodulators. I've a feeling Pain had to defeat those bodies to get control of them, and without control from Pain, they're either just corpses or near corpses.

There's also some creepy emotional crap that would come with all this. Pain's story is going to involve how he had a plan to uniite the or destroy the world, or save everyone or whatever, just like his friend wanted, but his friend and he didn't see eye to eye. Something about widespread destruction and war propagation probably didn't appeal to his friend, so they had a fight, and the friend was promptly defeated. To make himself feel better, Pain uses his friend's body as his primary avatar. It's so sad, I could shed a tear, if I wasn't creeped the fuck out.

[Naruto_RNG]

I wonder what good does it do even if FRS was thrown. Sasuke and everyone else naruto has to fight with, all have very high speed. I mean all the opponent has to do is side step.

[Uchiha Barles]

Well, it could be really fast. Like, really really fast. Also, if it's thrown, Naruto isn't near it with it blasts the enemy. So he avoids the damage that it causes when it goes "pop" on the enemy. Plus, if he can throw it, I suspect he can also control it, like make it follow the enemy. Like Yamcha's technique.

I really don't think that that jutsu he doesn't want anyone to see is the rasengan though. I just don't see a reason for him to hide that training from a bunch of frogs.

[Abdula]

Seriously if anyone should get bad rep for kishi-trolling it should be abdula not me.

For the record I don't enjoy bad mouthing Kishi, and I don't always complain in fact I was probably the only one who enjoyed the manga's Sasuke heavy turn, even Psyke didn't like it, but I was all for it up until the horrible Itachi-Sasuke-Madara sharingan orgy. Anyway stop using my damn name

Hrmm...if Pain uses chakra modulation to control all the "realms", then the mechanism for defeating him might be revealed. Like, if only one person is doing the modulation and all the realms are equipped with demodulators, then that may be why finding the real Pain and defeating him would stop the others from acting. Also, the key to defeat any of the individual realms might be to just remove their demodulators. I've a feeling Pain had to defeat those bodies to get control of them, and without control from Pain, they're either just corpses or near corpses.

So you think Jiraiya figured all of this out when Pain did that to him, seems like everyone forgot that Pain did the exact same thing to Jiraiya that he is doing to Kakashi and it was right after that, that Jiraiya figured out his secret. So when Jiraiya was stabbed he figured it out and left the coded message along with the body hoping that the guys in Konoha would get it. I would actually buy that, and it would also explain why Pain was so worried about his secret getting out. Still I don't think thats the whole story, the guy wouldn't go around claiming to be a god if his weakness was something so simple. I really like the idea though.

Besides his weakness has something to do with his true identity. Jiraiya was going on and on about his true identity.

[Archangel]

I wonder what good does it do even if FRS was thrown. Sasuke and everyone else naruto has to fight with, all have very high speed. I mean all the opponent has to do is side step.

Did you see the freaking explosion range that thing has? If he did manage to throw it it would be one of the most powerful jutsus we've ever seen.

Plus, if he can throw it, I suspect he can also control it, like make it follow the enemy. Like Yamcha's technique.

Wouldn't that require high chakra control? And doesn't naruto suck at that?

[SilentSnake]

Basically I see Naruto as a character wearing a ADHD trait (who played any of Fallout games knows what I mean ):

ADHD:

You get 8 skill points less per experience level, but you get +2 endurance and strength.
Occasionally, you get a brilliant idea.

edit: It would also explain why he CAN be higher level than Kakashi but still suck in general (you can be level 20, but you still suck ass compared to my lvl 18 char with +20 skill points per level!)

[Archangel]

Lol that's funny, it represents naruto's growth rate perfectly.

[Uchiha Barles]

Did you see the freaking explosion range that thing has? If he did manage to throw it it would be one of the most powerful jutsus we've ever seen.



Wouldn't that require high chakra control? And doesn't naruto suck at that?

If you remember the training for forming the rasengan, it's description said to be able to do the technique, you needed to power out as much chakra as you could and at the same time, control it to the point that it not only forms a sphere, but does not lose it's shape when coming into contact with anything. I doubt Naruto still has severe chakra control problems after that.

@Abdula

No doubt there's more to his "godhood" then just the chakra modulation. I bet it has to do with the Rinnegan. Not that it takes a genius to guess that.

Lolzors!! @ ADHD comment.

[Archangel]

Don't confuse chakra manipulation with chakra control.

Chakra manipulation allows the user to control a huge mass of chakra to it's liking as to form a weapon ( rasengan or chidori )

Chakra control consists in flowing your chakra around your body as to perform jutsu, just how sasuke has to send it to his lungs and then turn it to fire and sakura to her hands and then quickly release it to make those super punches ( but she's a pro at it )

The rasengan does require some chakra control ( sending it to your hand ) but that comes easy to naruto since he has so much of it it's practically leaking out of his body.
The reason why naruto gets owned by genjutsu so much is because he's so bad at chakra control.

[Uchiha Barles]

Well, might have a point about chakra manipulation and chakra control being distinct...maybe. Thing about genjutsu is, everyone gets owned by it. Assuming that I buy into manipulation and control being distinct, Shikamaru must have rather fantastic chakra manipulation abilities, yet he had to break his own finger to escape a genjutsu. One that probably wasn't on the level of Itachi's genjutsu. Plus, Naruto did break one of Itachi's genjutsus, but got easily caught in another during the Itachi clone fight. During the Orochimaru's war against Konoha, the reason Naruto got caught by the mass sleep jutsu, was likely because he didn't even realize what was happening.

At the very least, the link between manipulation and genjutsu isn't as you say it is, leaving open to further interpretation what chakra manipulation is. Not to mention, what was stated about Naruto was that his chakra CONTROL is what was lacking. If manipulation and control are distinct, they we simply don't know his manipulation potential. That would make a jutsu like I described, fair game for Naruto if Kishi decided he wanted him to have one.

[Abdula]

Okay don't try to make an argument based on genjutsu thats just ridiculous. The level of genjutsu Kabuto used during the chuunin exam and the level of Genjutsu Itachi uses are two very very different things. Oh and the reason Naruto got caught by the mass sleep genjutsu was because no one taught him how to break genjutsus yet. Kakashi himself said he only taught it to Sakura. Whether Naruto is good at chakra control or not he now knows how to get out of them and I think he would be able to break out of most low to mid level genjutsu simply because he has so much damn chakra he can simply overpower the technique. Just like what he did or tried to do with Itachi, but that alone wouldn't be enough to escape from high level genjutsus like Itachi uses.

Anyway as far as chakra control goes Naruto sucks at it, that is why he still needs to use shadow clones to form the rasengan.

[Archangel]

Anyway as far as chakra control goes Naruto sucks at it, that is why he still needs to use shadow clones to form the rasengan.

Yep you're right i forgot to mention that too

@ Barles That post kind of went all around the place but i'll try to answer some of those questions

- Sakura broke the genjutsu because she already had fairly good chakra control at that time, shikamaru too i guess but then again kabuto isn't a genjutsu type and the technique he used was meant for long range not power, just enough to get the weaklings out of the way.

- I'm sorry i don't know what you're talking about i don't remeber naruto getting out of any genjutsu especially itachi's

- Link between manipulation and genjutsu?? There isn't any link between the 2 as far as i know, you may be confusing it with control again.

- As for his potential for manipulation, he was able to control the ultimate form of chakra manipulation ( the rasengan ), so even tough he needs a shadow clone to use it i'd say he has talent in that area at least