I've been watching the raws (upto 12). You get some backstory, but protagonist remains useless. Just a little warning if you're expecting the show to turn anytime soon.
I wish they used Aka to focus more on the older brother. It probably would have made this season more exciting and the little squirt less annoying to watch.
A couple of eps now that the second season is already launching:
Episode 10 - Teki
Episode 11 - Teki
Will this thread be enough to discuss the sequel, or do you guys preffer a separate thread?
Let me know because if you guys want to discuss the sequel, I'll just drop the "Aka" portion of the thread title.
I guess it depends on whether subs of the sequel start to appear sooner than this first season is finished. Technically speaking if they do, according to the rules you could discuss them even though the story, for most of us (if this series even has enough watchers to warrant "us"), hasn't even reached that point yet. Let's hope this finishes first to keep things chronological. If not, I suppose there needs to be another thread.
Sounds fair. We can always merge if we deem it appropiate later on. But if a second thread is created I guess it would be best to keep it like that. I think I'm going to start watching the series tonight.
Oori is getting better and better. Actually episode 10 was pretty good since Oori played very little role in it, but in episode 11 he surely took back the lost time and surpassed himself: Knifed Keisei. He has had a steady line of development: From blissfully and stupidly ignorant to sticking his nose everywhere it doesn't belong to, to finally turning against his guardian and aiding the enemy. Few can claim such achievements.
Maybe by the end of the second season Oori will be the main villain of the series.
Well just caught up.
Overall, I'm really enjoying the series. I find the strengths to be the plot, variety of characters, comedy, themes, atmosphere. The weaknesses are clearly poor dialogue and crappy VAs, so you end up with crappy VAs doing crappy lines.
Read a bit of earlier posts and I really disagree with the characerization many of you guys have given Oori. He rarely got in the way of these guys, and when he did he was mostly the one on the right. So as useless as he was, he was on the right most of the times. Plus I can't blame him for being in the middle of things when one big aspect that has been there since the beginning of the series is the idea that Oori doesn't really have much control over his involvement. Over and over it has been suggested that he's attractacted to them intrinsically... that he's pretty much fated to be among them. His VA kills the character for me in my opinion, but overall I find him quite interesting especially when we learn about his youth and his inability to interact with the world appropiately which explains many of his present actions. Plus, many of his actions that can be deemed stupid are really Makina's and Kensei's fault for keeping him ignorant.
As for Oori being a villian? I really can't see it. The reason for this is mainly because we've always seen things from his perspective and I don't think that will change. It would be quite innovative/rare to make him the villian. Also, the comedic aspects of the show will prevent it, and more importantly all the orphans that are being taken care of in the temple will prevent this (unless they all die in this arc). I can easily see him going against the cult and having his own ideals, but being a villian is not something I really envision at the moment.
In all I think he'll eventually become Makina's contractor. I'm still not sure that Kensei will die, but I can easily envision him sacrificing himself for Oori. I doubt Oori will kill him. He's clearly not himself at the moment. But killing Kensei off will kill many of the comedic aspects of the series so I don't see it at the moment. Of course, there are other ways to introduce them if Kensei isn't there.
Last edited by Munsu; Tue, 01-06-2009 at 02:25 PM.
That was just sarcasm... Oori would never have the wits or the mindset to become a villain. He's of course not himself at the moment; he's obviously controlled by one of the seven Big Dipper corpses, but that doesn't change anything in the end. He was stupid and weak enough to get controlled by the corpse, so at the end of the day it's still his fault. It's not like he wouldn't anymore know there are evil corpses out there with all manner of powers.
I can't yet predict whether Kensei dies or not, though. If Makina is to become Oori's Corpse Princess, then Kensei would need to die. I was expecting a few eps ago that other girl to be transferred to Oori, but naturally Oori got her elimated instead (he wouldn't be Oori otherwise). This is a half-morbid series so I suppose Kensei could be offed. All the better if by Oori... He wouldn't be Oori otherwise, after all.
Heh, hard to tell that it was sarcasm because in all it would be an interesting turn for the series. Admitedly I had read your post before actually watching the episode, so that might've led me to not get the message of your post.
But, stupid and weak enough to be controlled by the corpse? How did you come up with that conclusion? He simply shaked hands with a random girl... how in the world do you think he could've prevented anything that currently happened to him? Come on, you can't be that unreasonable even with your huge bias against weak characters. I mean, even one of those trained priests got his ass kicked by a couple of teenagers. Even those Shikanane Hime/contractor combos got their ass kicked by the betrayer... who may not be as powerful as these band of Shikabanes.
I too think Kensei will be killed off, it's like the whole first season has been setting up his death. I'm just having a hard time envisioning it.
Last edited by Munsu; Tue, 01-06-2009 at 02:48 PM.
It's not that I'm entirely opposed to Oori not being able to resist the power of the corpse girl. It's more the fact he has shown pretty much zero development during the series despite having learned a gigaton of stuff. Of course it's Kensei's fault as well, but all in all that scene might never have occured if Oori had tried, at any point earlier, to take his future and fate into his own hands. Now he can't even handle his mundane life, with employers disappearing without paying his wages (why the heck didn't he break into the bar and ransack it to cover his expenses, or something, haha).
That's my gripe. He has now known stuff for a long time yet has done absolutely nothing about it. Thus, I can say I hold him purely responsible for falling into a trap without an opposing word. He can't even claim ignorance as his excuse. He can't even say he didn't care, because he surely did. It was all idiotic indecisiveness, nothing else. Somebody said that in a fight the worst thing isn't to make a wrong choice but to fail to do anything.
But would've had the control to do so? Since the beginning of the series it has been hinted that Oori is a unique person... even these villians see some interest in him for some reason, and this is supported by the background scenes we saw of Oori's childhood.Originally Posted by Kraco
And that's completely untrue about him not having developed and it's untrue that he has done nothing to try and make things better. The Minai situation comes to mind. He took things into his own hand, but he's completely outnumbered and uninformed about many things out there... and his decision would've saved her life if he was simply granted the chance to do so.
If there's something in this anime that there's a lack of is information. So you can't just put blame on the guy for falling into this crappy trap. I'm willing to bet that ANY of the characters in the series when confronted with that Corpse for the first time, without prior knowledge of that Corpse, would've fallen for the same trap. We've seen this countless times... Makina mistakenly trying to kill a baby thinking it was a corpse, Makina when fighting the idol, and most recently when fighting the student that was able to reflect anything. None of these guys know much when heading to battle and of the bigger picture when all is concerned. Are you going to fault Oori because no one is willing to help him out even when he's willingly proactive to try and help? Isn't that why he went to this other cult to try and see if he can become useful by his own volition? There has simply been outside forces that have prevented him of becoming the useful person he is seemingly capable of being.
More than being annoyed by Oori, I'm being annoyed by all the obstacles that keep being thrown at him that prevent his development, and it starts with Kensei and Makina trying to keep him away from all that's going on. I would be annoyed with Oori if he was afforded the chance to become something and he simply sucks at it, but that's not the case at the moment. No chance has been granted to him, and there's little he can do about it.
Last edited by Munsu; Tue, 01-06-2009 at 03:36 PM.
Well, then, how exactly has he developed? He hasn't acquired any solid means of fighting the corpses, even though he has surely seen corpses normally are all about killing people. He hasn't demonstrated of possessing any defenses. In fact, he hasn't apparently even thought how he would act should he be targeted (I don't think it ever visited his mind anybody could target him despite the fact he's always there uselessly hanging around when bad things happen). All he can do is feel sorry for himself and let the current (and the spirit of a cat) take him wherever they intend to take him. The only time he did actually think about something was when he distracted the reflective monster with the phone call, but that was a one time special case only.
The Minai case was just sad. Why the heck did he leave her behind in the first place? He left her behind and went... downtown to hang around?
Meh, I don't think he's sorry for himself. He hasn't been the angsty type. Has he shown concern for his weaknesses? Sure, but he isn't crying constantly over it. Just because he hasn't found a means to fight it doesn't mean that he hasn't developed as a character. Also, your gripe that he does nothing about things is unfounded. Didn't he go to live on his own? Didn't he try to make a living by himself while still studying in high school? Also he was trying to learn how to help the Shikabane Hime outside of the Kougon-cult... I think that shows some proactivism from his part, when he has been cock-blocked by the people who should be the ones helping him.
And as I said before, that he hasn't found a way to get stronger is not his fault. If no one is willing to teach him how to fight against these things and if no one is willing to teach him what exactly this things are, what he's supposed to do? Let's numerate the times he has been helpful:
1) When he found Makina dead.
2) When he took the revived kid (although it was foolish to do so) because she was kicking Makina's ass, and later on he made the Shikabane hesitate enough so that Makina could kill it when she was once again getting owned.
3) He prevented Makina from killing an innocent baby.
4) When Makina was all fucked up and needed to go after the Idol, he gave her a ride there.
5) Even with his uselessness, Makina trying to protect him forced her to jump into the hole that revealed to her the car's weakness.
6) When the Shikabane was going to kill the priest, he grabbed it and jumped into the ocean with him.
7) Made Minai more aware of herself.
8) Allowed the Shikabane to lower it's guard so that Makina and Minai could kill it.
9) Took Minai with him to try and save her, and although she ended up dying it was the correct decision to make. And he would've saved her if someone had actually taught him how to, and pretty much everyone around him were aware of how to do it. Shitty decision to leave her alone though, but if what he wanted was to become some sort of decoy... well can't blame him much.
He can be useless battle/fighting wise all he wants, and I agree with you but it's untrue that he has been getting in the way of these people and causing problems. And in the few instances that he has gotten in the way he has been the one in the right. And again, that he's unprapered and unfit to battle is not because he lacks the desire to do so, people are simply preventing him from doing so and there's little he can do about it at this point.
The only time I can really think of that has actually caused trouble during a battle was in that episode 11... but that he failed has more to do with Kensei and Kougon's stupidity of keeping Oori in the dark than Oori actually being stupid and weak. There really was no way for him to know that little girl was a Shikabane. There was no way to know that simply by shaking hands with her he would be this fucked up... and I bet that it would be true for most people (even some of those priests) to fall for traps like this when the information about Shikabanes is so scarce, and I've enumerated above some instances in which these "strong" people have fallen into such traps. So again, that Oori finds himself in this predicament has little to do with his weakness and stupidity in my opinion.
It's quite hard to do things and help in battle when everyone around you keeps telling you that you would be of zero help. That you're completely powerless and weak... that only the Shikabane Hime are capable of defeating the enemies. When the truth is that if they offered to train him, he would probably accept and become useful, but the exact opposite has been happening, they keep him in the dark because everyone is scared of his possible associations to the enemy.
Last edited by Munsu; Tue, 01-06-2009 at 05:20 PM.
He didn't ask the most obvious person, though, did he? Minai herself. She should have known how it happens since she had already gone through it once.
Everybody treats him like a fool, and I don't see him doing much about it. He is too innocent to walk in such shadows. Unless it's precisely because of that that even corpses find him somehow interesting. Perhaps being used as a weapon against Kensei will open his eyes now. The things you have been listing are mainly situational common sense or simple ad hoc solutions, and not any long term planning or getting better at fighting the corruption of the corpses in general. And of course trying to "help" Makina (and other corpses) as if they could still be "healed".
Minai didn't know it was possible (and if she knew she didn't have the state of mind to realize it)... it was explained to her by the assault team. That's why she gained hope. The other Shikabane Hime there didn't know it was possible either.
Also, I wasn't suggesting that he has been getting better in battles. I was simply listing situations to argue against the idea that his presence during all these fights has been getting in the way of what Makina and the others are doing... that he's been slowing them down. Which is untrue. His pressence in all these fights have helped them in some instances even if purely by coincidence, or when his pressence has acted against the wishes of Makina and the others, he was on the right. As useless has he has been his pressence has been a positive, so he hasn't been "only getting in the way of others trying to do their job".
If it was true that he was getting in the way of this people, and wrongfully so, then no doubt about it he would be pissing me off. But again, he hasn't been getting in their way and the few instances in which he has, he was the one with the correct decision.
Last edited by Munsu; Tue, 01-06-2009 at 07:31 PM.
I agree with Munsu that in retrospect he hasn't been as much of a burden as he seems, but this is due to mere luck and coincidence.
I think what Kraco is trying to point out is that the main character is so weak that it makes it really hard to root for him, and really easy to hate his interfering nature when he does not think ahead nor has the strength to back it up.
I personally slightly dislike him just because of the voice.
Peace.
12 by Teki:
http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=45610
Edit: Really kickass episode. Hopefully the momentum will continue forward to the new season.
Last edited by Munsu; Wed, 01-07-2009 at 07:12 AM.
Just in time to end the debate turned stale already.
Because after this there's no saying Oori's useless anymore, seeing how he's now Makina's contracted "priest". Though how much he's going to do personally from now on is anybody's guess. He has got no training and thus can't use those nice tricks real priests can. All he has is a sarcastic cat spirit... Perhaps Makina will hate what happened so much that will mercilessly draw life from him also in the future, thus retaining the kickass powers, and Oori will continue to blame himself for Keisei's death and thus won't object. A working deal...
That's because I was sweeping the floor with you lol.
I disagree though. Now that he's been given a chance to perform, his "uselessness" and underperformance will be more impactful in the battles, so there should be more justification to critize him. The thing is to manage expectations and criticize him within reason. If it's one thing that has been consistant through the series is that these priest aren't that strong at all, and are limited by the cult. Many of the useful things that are available for priests to use are considered taboo.
But his presence alone at the moment, as you say, will make him somewhat useful since Makina can draw powers from him. I just hope he doesn't become a emo bitch filled with self-pity.
Another thing, that robe Kensei had preprared with all the sutras for defense inside... I don't think he used it in this battle. I think that robe will be given to Oori either as soon as the next episode, or eventually when he becomes a full priest.
As for episode 13... don't have much expections for it. I think Kuro will be a more enjoyable series for all concerned. That you know of, will the series have a time jump? Or will it pick up right were Aka finishes up? I think a time jump might better serve the series so we don't have to deal with Oori's inexperience.
Last edited by Munsu; Thu, 01-08-2009 at 09:42 AM.
Time jump would have it good sides, mainly to make Oori a more seriously priest, but it would lose all the fresh, delicious interaction between Makina and Oori, unless the last episode of this season sufficiently deals with that. So, unlike you, I do have expectations for the last episode. It will determine how Oori and Makina's new fates will work. I would like some spice and heat there.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
