It wasn't special or anything. Carwin had nothing left in him. He let himself get mounted because he didn't have anything in the tank to stop Lesnar from taking him down.
It wasn't special or anything. Carwin had nothing left in him. He let himself get mounted because he didn't have anything in the tank to stop Lesnar from taking him down.
Lesnar surviving that onslaught of a 1st round was nothing special? Considering no one ever even got out of the first round with Carwin.
Surviving was fine, his grappling just wasn't anything special. Carwin was basically a piece of wet paper at the start of the 2nd round.
Lesnar didn't do anything special, he just didn't try to stand and trade with Carwin like most of Carwin's opponents. As soon as Carwin landed a punch, Lesnar did a standing turtle followed by a turtle on his back with a lot of cowering. It looked pathetic for a 6'3" 280lb man to look like a little kid getting beat up. But in the end it was a smart maneuver to let Carwin gas himself out. Still looked silly for the HW champion to "fight" like that.Originally Posted by Kagemane_no_Jutsu
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
I thought the way brock finished him was awesome. The arm triangle is one of my favorite subs. I don't think anybody could have predicted brock locking on a jui jitsu move and quickly passing over his guard to finish him w\ such a move.
I think that proves just how dangerous he is. Round 1 just showed how he needs to train more on getting punched in the face.
Arm triangle is the second least impressive submission, only trailing guillotine chokes in their ease of application.
Lesnar basically applied the submission to a grappling dummy. He didn't display any technique or special ability.
Too bad he won't be able to learn how to eat a punch. Some guys have it, some don't. He should enjoy the few months off before he loses the title and #1 ranking after Cain Velasquez embarrasses him.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
Can't believe anyone hasn't commented on UFC 117. For some reason i forgot about it. I was psyched about it on Thursday and but then it just slipped my mind. Just watched it today. And man was it a sweet event. One of the best in a long time.
Roy Nelson impressed big time even though he was dominated. Just love him more for every fight. Animeniax said in the post above me, "Too bad he won't be able to learn how to eat a punch. Some guys have it, some don't.". Well we know for sure now that Roy Nelson have it ^^ . Thought it was a little unfair of Rogan to say comment on his weight and that is why he was so tired. We know for a fact that big punches like those add fatigue big time. We have seen it before with people we know can go 5 rounds breathing heavy in the second round when they been rocked big time like that. Of course he would perform better but the fatigue in this fight i would contribute to the power shots he ate instead of the shape he was in. I could be wrong. I guess he just reminds you of the average Joe and that is why he gets all the love.
Matt Hughes had a great and quick victory as well. Showed that he isn't done. And against someone from the Gracie camp no less. Extra sweet IMO. I always liked Matt. Maybe because he was so dominate. I was never the biggest fan of his cockiness that he had. But his accomplishments and dominance earned him the right i guess. But it still rubbed you the wrong way. Great to see him more humble. His demeanor reminded me of Randy Coture. And then you just have to love him. Maybe he has grown up some.
And Clay "The Carpenter" Guida is always a delight to watch. Like the energizer bunny from hell. He never disappoints. He gets me so pumped up just watching him enter the ring.
Stefan Struve made a huge comeback. Got dominated the first round and that swollen lip was freakish. But he didn't give up and got the knock out. Great to see.
Jon Fitch is great as always. Never liked Thiago so it was extra sweet for me even though i would have wanted to see him finish it.
Anderson and Sonnen was a great fight. Most people counted Chael out, including me. Despite Anderson's clowning in his resent fights you know the level he could bring. And with all the hate i suspected he would bring it. And i never thought Chael would last long if that happened. But he did. He dominated. And rocked him too. Chael shut me up good. But he got caught with less then 2min left. 23min of dominance and then lost. can never drop your guard against a BJJer. And the strange breakup made it look like Chael was gonna deny the tap and i started to get pissed, but he owned up to it and his arguing with the ref was probably about something else. Once again i started to hate on Chael prematurely and he shut me up.
Awesome card. Every aired fight was great and i worried about the Silva-Sonnen fight for nothing. So, why didn't anyone comment on this. Did you guys miss it too or didn't you find it as great as i did?
EDIT: I of course meant UFC 117 and not UFC 118.
Last edited by TwisT; Wed, 08-18-2010 at 02:40 PM.
Nelson is likable but he doesn't have the standup to hang with the strikers and he doesn't have the wrestling to keep it standing against the wrestlers. He'll make a fine gatekeeper, and he should have some good fights against other middle-tier HWs like Gonzaga and Mir.
I don't think Hughes showed us anything beyond Almeida's lack of standup ability which was nothing surprising. Hughes would still get destroyed by any of the top 5-6 WWs. He'd still be good to see against guys like Diego Sanchez, Paulo Thiago, or Martin Kampmann. I'd also love to see him wrestle Fitch. I'm surprised you're cheering for Fitch's performance. The guy is talented but his performances show why North American MMA rules suck in favor of wrestlers. He'll never be #1 as long as GSP is at WW, and Shields tooled him in a grappling match so that fight would be fun to see.
Anderson vs Sonnen was much closer than I expected it would be but I still couldn't watch the entire fight since it resembled a typical GSP title fight: 5 rounds of top control with no chance of finishing. The compustrike "record" of 250+ strikes is a bullshit stat, most of Sonnen's punches were love-taps. Look at Anderson's face after the fight and then look at Sonnen's. Further proof that MMA judging needs to be changed to not reward takedowns and top control as much and also give more credit to takedown defense, reverses, and escapes. They also need to allow kicks and knees to the head. Stomps I can see continuing to be banned since they are really dangerous in a cage.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
Stomps aren't any more dangerous than punches or knees. Probably less dangerous. It just looks really bad, so it's banned.
Normally I'd agree with you but watch Sims vs Mir at UFC 43 and you'll hopefully think differently. I agree stomps are fine most of the time, but when a guy has his head trapped against the cage and gets stomped then it's too dangerous a position. They could make a "ring within the ring" area where stomps are allowed, maybe 2 feet away from the cage at all points, but I don't see it happening, too much room for error and DQs.
edit: Also consider that a stomp brings the full force of the weight of a guy onto the other guy's head. No knee, punch, or elbow can generate that kind of deadly force.
Last edited by Animeniax; Thu, 08-19-2010 at 08:50 AM.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
A stomp is really nothing but a forward thrust kick whose direction is largely aligned with the direction of gravity, i.e. forward thrust aimed a lot lower and closer to the body. If it's any more dangerous than what you normally think of as a forward thrust kick, it's just because it's easier to drop the stomp than the forward thrust. You're not bringing down the entire weight of the body unless you're actually airborne when you thrust out one or both legs, i.e. jump and stomp/vertical drop kick.
"You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."
- Inquisitor Czevak
A stomp is a lot more than a forward thrust kick, particularly since a stomp is normally aimed at the head and a forward thrust kick isn't. It's the same as an elbow from the 12 to 6 position which is a lot more dangerous than an elbow thrown from the 3 to 9 position, regardless of what Joe Rogan says. Go watch some old Shogun and Wanderlei Silva fights from Pride and you'll see how much force you can put behind a stomp that isn't possible with a forward thrust kick.
I'm all for allowing kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent.
What they really need to change is allowing up-kicks to the head of your opponent when you're on your back. It's ridiculous that that isn't allowed.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
You're able to put a lot more power into punches and kicks by turning your hips than you can with a stomp using only a single leg's power. The only way a stomp could be more damaging is if you used the ropes or cage for leverage, which is illegal.
That would be true except stomps are more than just the force of one leg when thrown correctly, just as a punch has more force when thrown correctly. A lot of the stomps you'll see when watching Pride fights are thrown frantically and therefore incorrectly. But the times you see a proper stomp, it's brutal.
And as far as stomps in the cage, the problem remains that even a poorly thrown stomp to the head of a guy is bad news if his head is trapped against the cage.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
I understand that stomps are dangerous. Kicks though, are no less so. Using the forward thrust kick for example, ever seen someone use that kick aimed at the head of a person who was on their knees with their head pressed up against the wall? Though I guess I do kind of see one point you're making. Most stomps are going to be used in a situation where the person's head and body are up against the floor or the corner or a wall/cage near where it meets the floor, and a stomp is extremely brutal in that case. But a properly thrown low roundhouse, or a low side thrust (which is different kind of stomp by my definition) are no less brutal in those situations.
Also, unless the stomp is aimed directly below or close to directly below your center of gravity, you actually can put your hips into the stomp.
edit: Actually, just tried it out as close to directly below center of gravity as makes sense in a practical application, and you can put your hips into it also, big time xD.
Last edited by Uchiha Barles; Thu, 08-19-2010 at 08:51 PM. Reason: This edit brought to you by the association for less crappy english.
"You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."
- Inquisitor Czevak
Unfortunately the perceived brutality of kicks and stomps in general due to these specific uses will be what keeps them out of north American MMA.
I used to argue for allowing stomps in the cage, until I saw Mir vs Sims and then listened to some discussion about the dangers in a cage as compared to a ring. I'd still like to see them allowed on a trial basis.
I still think kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent need to be allowed. They are no less brutal than elbows to the head of a downed opponent (which promotions like Strikeforce don't allow). Also, at a minimum kicks to the head when performed as an upkick should be allowed.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
Did anyone watch the Strikeforce:Houston show? Some good fights, but it's clear that besides the HW division, Strikeforce's fighters would get owned by the UFC's fighters.
Jacare and Feijao both won championships at MW and LHW respectively. The Jacare fight was disappointing, looked like a typical Okami fight.
The Bobby Lashley and King Mo hype trains were both derailed.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
I was defending strikeforce alot a year ago but their production and match making just suck.
i wish i would have put some money on Feijao and Griggs! Best part of the night I thought was KJ Noons' striking... those combos were just great. But then the crappy production comes in and instead of hyping one of their top 3 155lb contenders, they're trying to talk to him about fighting Nick Diaz who is the 170lb champ...
The production value of Strikeforce shows does suck. The announcers are the worst part. But I watch for the fights and the fighters so I have to forgive the shit production, though I spend a lot of time yelling at the TV for the announcers to shut up when I'm watching.
Strikeforce: Houston was worth the $25 PPV.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
Oh dear, Gus Johnson trying to hype a fight between Noons and Mayweather was ridiculous.
It was a crappy event, but it's not like any of the fighters matched up well for each other. The commentating was a lot better this event as well. Gus apparently learned to shut the fuck up some because I didn't hear him too much during the fights.
Knees and upkicks would be great. Right now the only option you have vs someone turtling up on the ground is to punch them in the side of the head, doing no damage, and just prolonging the inevitable. Knees to the head of a grounded opponent would stop this easily and make the opponent actually try to do something.
Do you buy PPVs? I've just streamed every boxing and MMA event for free the past 2 years. It's a total waste to buy them unless you don't have anything else to blow your cash on.
Last edited by mage; Mon, 08-23-2010 at 03:47 PM.
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