Toaru Majutsu no Index

[animus]

Ooh, Kaori in the preview. And Touma's parents? He even made a comment about his mom. Maybe his mom's super hot and clingy?

[Munsu]

Ooh, Kaori in the preview. And Touma's parents? He even made a comment about his mom. Maybe his mom's super hot and clingy?

Hopefully she's a MILF... the series needs someone like that with all the lolis running around.

[Archangel]

I wonder... MISAKA 10032 was the one that Touma got to know... but they said that all the MISAKA's are linked when Touma found the dead 10031... does that mean all remaining MISAKA from 10033 to 20000 like him now?

I want THAT harem...

I made that comment in the past too, it's like giving this guy 1 girl per arc just wasn't cutting it so they gave them 10000 to do as he pleases

And Archie - Accelerator can manipulate vectors - not only reverse them, therefore he could get even x5 his normal speed, or x50 - but it would be pain to stop in instant with this speed.

By manipulation i assumed that he meant that he could only change directions, not manipulate them to make them bigger or smaller. If he had the power to do that one punch wouldn't leave a hole in the ground, it would cut the world in half

[shinta|hikari]

He can clearly change magnitude. The only question left is whether there is a limit or not.

[Xelbair]

i think that there is - if there was not any limit he could create plasma instantly - and there would be no need for calculating the winds. Proof for Archie - he created explosion, he changed temperature of that air very fast. Changed, not reversed.

[KrayZ33]

Sry to bring this up again, but this is really bugging me... because I still don't get it
Why didn't the alchemist in ep.8 summon a vampire if he can create exactly what he wants? (or save Index directly)

I mean he was able to shred the rune magican into pieces and bring him back to life..
so it's not like he needs to "know" how everything is done.. he can even produce the impossible... he can simply think "Save INDEX!!" and thats just what's going to happen.

Stiyl brought the same question into the conversation... and it was never answered.

Touma says that "he couldn't think of it" (for index to be saved) but I wonder why? because he has a plan and seems to know that it IS possible to expand her capacity... so all he has to do is pierce himself with that thingy and say "expand index memory capacity!" and it's done
and when he gained his Ars Magna, he should know that he is able to do the impossible, so why not a simply thing like that... I mean he has dedicated his life to save her, it's not really difficult to "think" about such a thing then

or is it, that he fears he will doubt himself when he tries to save Index and thus, making the Ars Magna useless and eventually kill Index? And tries to find a more "normal" and logical way (turn her into a vampire)?

Did I miss a point or something?


btw.. that episode I'm talking about was extremely good... legendary and really epic. Haven't seen such a thing before, I was really shocked when Stiyl was suddently torn apart like that... I couldn't believe my eyes ^^
They invented a very powerfull and cool enemy enemy there, I'd love to see more ideas like that

[Ryllharu]

or is it, that he fears he will doubt himself when he tries to save Index

This was a huge part of it. Just like Kanzaki and Stiyl couldn't think of a way (or even try to think of a way) to save Index, the Izzard couldn't imagine a way to help Index with his own power. He also didn't have it, or have control over it (I forget which, but his power over the Ars Magna was very recent, after he had already lost Index).

It's the same reason that he defeated himself by imagining some horror on Touma's arm. It was far too dependent on his own thoughts. He doubted he would have a way to help Index, and wouldn't be able to save her.

He also probably couldn't imagine what a vampire was. Aisa knows what they are because she's killed so many of them, but Izzard knew next to nothing about them, only rumors, hence his half-assed plan to save Index. He didn't know how they were biologically different from humans, whether the rumor about their limitless knowledge was true, etc. He create what he can't fully imagine.

That's why Stiyl doubted him. Izzard's power was supposedly words, so if he merely said them, they should exist.

Kanzaki, Stiyl and Izzard were all of the same mind. They wanted to help Index, but they couldn't fathom that there was a way to change anything. Touma on the other hand, was "too dumb" to know there wasn't a way, so he tried. It worked. Izzard never tried, so there wouldn't be any way he could imagine simply helping her.

...that sound about right.

[Buffalobiian]

i think that there is - if there was not any limit he could create plasma instantly

Steady state plasma seems to be hard to obtain, as he's shown. Like he's said, his power is vector change, not vector redirect, destroy-and-create-a-vector. He's got to calculate how much the change is to get it exactly where he wants it.

As for why he took so long, he can only manipulate the breeze that touches him. Since there was no breeze to begin with, the starting stages would have been slow.

I too think there'll be some sort of limit, but it wasn't why he took so long to create such a huge ball of plasma.

[Xelbair]

He could change vectors of air particles that touches him adding, damn i don't know to call it in English, force that does not change speed(its vector not linear!) but the direction, like an charged particle in a magnetic field(its called there Lorentz force - and its equal to that force if that force was not present before) and do so that way that it would hit other particles near him and transmit kinetic energy through hitting(risk of small nuclear reaction but still - its way faster)other particles, and use magnetic field of electrons/protons to manipulate radiation(alpha and beta)
Vector change so he adds a X value to the vector.

[Archangel]

Proof for Archie - he created explosion, he changed temperature of that air very fast. Changed, not reversed.

Temperature doesn't have any vectors Xelbair, it's an energy form and not a force.

[Xelbair]

How does for gods sake temperature transmits between objects? by movement!
What is temperature? Initial energy!
what is it made of? Kinetic energy of particles!
what do the particles that have kinetic energy? move!

[David75]

Temperature doesn't have any vectors Xelbair, it's an energy form and not a force.

Well energy, and here temperature, is a scalar number. It's the result of an operation beetween vectors. So if you can manipulate the vectors behind, you can modify temperature too

For example take to pieces of metal, have them crash one into the other at high speed, you didn't directly change temperature, but having the pieces to collide did increase temperature by transforming quantity of movement and cinetical energy in heat.

[Archangel]

How does for gods sake temperature transmits between objects? by movement!
What is temperature? Initial energy!
what is it made of? Kinetic energy of particles!
what do the particles that have kinetic energy? move!

FFS learn some physics before trying to post dipshit

Well energy, and here temperature, is a scalar number. It's the result of an operation beetween vectors. So if you can manipulate the vectors behind, you can modify temperature too

For example take to pieces of metal, have them crash one into the other at high speed, you didn't directly change temperature, but having the pieces to collide did increase temperature by transforming quantity of movement and cinetical energy in heat.

Yes he would be able to create heat by using friction but that's not the same as directly changing the temperature.

That's how he created that Dust Explosion

[Buffalobiian]

I'm not sure where this conversation's heading anymore. In the post underneath my previous, it looked like Xel was still talking about Accelerator only manipulating direction without magnitude.

Adding my 2c to this temperature discussion:

Temperature is a unit of measurement of heat (on that is dependant on the thermal characteristics of the medium/item bearing the temperature). As long as there is a temperature difference between two connected objects, there's a transfer of heat. Directed heat = vectored energy.

(And I agree that heat is really internal kinetic energy, but I fail to see the relevance)

[Ryllharu]

Accelerator directly told MISAKA 10031 (the one killed in the alley) that he can manipulate the flow of heat and anything else. Heat always flows, (outside of ideal situations with "perfect" insulators) because there is always a temperature differential.

Dust Explosions aren't necessarily started with heat, they are nearly always caused by a spark. It wouldn't be hard for him to create sparks, all he has to do is toss an I-beam or whatever else around. A lot of them are started by a foolish worker entering a silo with a power tool. He could even just snap his fingers and manipulate the friction from that.
Wikipedia: over one-half of the dust explosions in Germany in 2005 were from non-flame sources.

[Buffalobiian]

Accelerator directly told MISAKA 10031 (the one killed in the alley) that he can manipulate the flow of heat and anything else. Heat always flows, (outside of ideal situations with "perfect" insulators) because there is always a temperature

I left outer space as an option for near perfect insulator, but yes, I agree.

[Archangel]

My point is that Accelerator can't directly affect the temperature, he can only create physical phenomenons that may eventually create energy and indirectly raise it.

[RyougaZell]

I agree. He created plasma by manipulating wind movement for a long time at a stupidly fast speed. The explosion was created by making the wind probably move so fast it created a spark as well.

[Xelbair]

Well archie - by increasing movement vectors of small particles he can change their speed right? higher speed equals more kinetic energy Ek=(m*V^2)/2, where m is mass of particle here, V is its speed, therefore he can change temperature - because temperature is internal energy of object - which is kinetic energy of its every particle(neutrons, protons, and electrons). So go learn physics yourself ok? this is elementary physics man.

[Ryllharu]

Well archie - by increasing movement vectors of small particles he can change their speed right? higher speed equals more kinetic energy Ek=(m*V^2)/2, where m is mass of particle here, V is its speed, therefore he can change temperature - because temperature is internal energy of object - which is kinetic energy of its every particle(neutrons, protons, and electrons). So go learn physics yourself ok? this is elementary physics man.

That's all well and good, but he never said he can change states of energy. He can mess with the kinetic energy of something all he wants, but he has shown he needs to introduce that energy into the system before he can manipulate it. That's why he taps/kicks objects he wants to hurl, throws/flicks objects before they go warp speed, and stomps the ground when he wants to propel himself or make those fun ground explosions he kept using on Touma.

Internal energy isn't directly related to kinetic energy. Friction converts kinetic energy to internal energy, or one of the three forms of heat transfer: conduction (i.e. friction, which he can indirectly influence), convection (which is can actively control) or radiation.

However, he can only control convection of fluids (which convection entails by definition).

This is elementary heat transfer