Toradora!

[fireheart]

that wasn't a problem when she *thought* Taiga likes Takasu.... she avoided him all the time, just because she feared he could get closer to her and make Taiga feel lonely.
Now, she *knows* that Taiga actually loves Takasu and she acts like the exact opposite

It's simply because she rejected him so in her mind the whole things already settled. Like I said she wants things to go back to how they were before they went to the beach, not everyones relationship rather just her bond with Takasu. If you reset that why would you have to act all weird about it?

Also she didn't avoid him while she thought Taiga liked him since that's the majority of the episodes rather she avoided him after it was said that Taiga liked Kitamura. This in turn means she didn't have to hold back on her feelings which left her confused and unsure what to do hence the avoiding. This is also the second reason why she can act friendly with Takasu again because now she's made a decision which is something she didn't do while she was avoiding him. Since at that point she was just running away from the problem more or less.

One thing that a lot of people think is that she's doing it for Taiga then again that's true and maybe it's just me but that's only part of the reason. In her case being a goofball is a safetyzone and she doesn't have to worry much about the rest. But if Takasu gets closer and closer that safetyzone won't be there. She's not really that good at handling what may come from it and it scares her. Part of that comes from her staying in that safetyzone and not being 100% true to herself, so she's scared that if they become close what happens if they don't like what she really is. She's already said that she's not a good person so her selfesteem isn't exactly at the best and from what's been shown she keeps most friends/teammates etc at a armslength away from her. All in all it's just a big conflict for her and inner turmoil that doesn't show as much.

[Marik]

[CoalGuys] Toradora - 21 [738C2A5F].mkv

[David75]

[CoalGuys] Toradora - 21 [738C2A5F].mkv

Probably the best ep up to now.

[Marik]

Probably the best ep up to now.

I'd say it was. I wasn't expecting a fight scene between those two. Pretty damn awesome.

[KrayZ33]

The fight was cool.. but on the other hand it might have been a bit too much, I expected a few slaps and a bit pushing here and there, but it turned out in another bitch-fight ^^ however I'm glad that it wasn't near the level of the "Taiga vs school rep."-fight.

I have only one bad thing to say about this episode.. why the fuck didn't they notice that Taiga obviously went down the slope and were only able to notice the slide-tracks and the broken net at night, in the middle of a snowstorm.. why didn't the search-teams start there in the first place? that's where she was last seen and since the net was obviously not put in the snow correctly at that point it's not hard to guess that something happened there.. (someone who's working there should have checked and fixed it anyways)

but then we wouldn't get such a "heroic" ending.. so I'm even fine with that.

[Ryllharu]

What really pissed me off about this episode was when Kushieda showed Takasu the hairpin, happily saying it was from Taiga. We know damn well that she would never have accepted it in the first place if she really knew it was from Takasu.

Ami was right to bitch Minorin out in the room. She absolutely deserved everything Ami said, and by the looks of Minorin's reactions, Ami was right about what she was saying more often than not. It's high time someone called Minorin out on her behavior lately. She's trying to force Takasu and Taiga together, but she still refuses to finish him off. I certainly don't think Minorin likes stringing him along, but she certainly isn't making things any better. It reminds me of a woman who only seduces a man because she knows he likes her, even though the man may have a girlfriend or a wife. After she gets his attentions, she pushes him away again. It's not totally the same, but it feels that way.

Ami surprisingly didn't have to reveal the reason why Minorin has been pissing her off so much lately. Even Kihara and the other guys didn't figure it out.

As much as I'd love to see Ami be the victor in this love-square (if she would only get a little more honest with her own feelings), it certainly isn't happening after Taiga's semi-conscious confession.


Poor Kihara, she was weeping most of the episode. Why didn't they make her role more major sooner!

[MFauli]

The bitching in the girls room was fantastic.

And im repeating myself, but again: Kushieda pisses me off to no end, so, totally agree with Ami-chan.

And WTF, after 2 episodes that made clear that Taigi didnt actually love Ryuuji, only didnt want to lose him as a friend...she now confesses his love for him..sigh
I, also, wanted Ami-chan to win that love-battle, but now i cant see how anyone but Taiga will "get him".

I also agree with the big lol @ Kray, where the heck did the search teams look for, if not at the most obvious place? well, ok, plot hole, we´ll survive that i think.

[Death BOO Z]

a great episode, though I think the dramatic ending dulled down the rest of the episode, which was by far fantastic.

Ami may be a bitch, but at least she doesn't pretend to be something else. the more I see Minorin, the less I like her. she's confused about her feelings, but still tries to fix up everything else before sorting out her own emotions. at least Ami is actually showing signs of affection towards Takasu, and despite knowing he won't love her (not in the visible future), she still tries to make him happy.

quick question: 24 eps or 26? it looks like we've gone into 'end series' mode already...

[Archangel]

Does anyone else read the manga?

I've only watched the first episode but it's uncanny how they portrayal of the characters is differently done between the 2.

At a first glimpse i'd say i absolutely prefer the manga but i'll give then anime a shot and i'll watvh a couple more episodes before passing final judgement

[Yukimura]

Nice ep, I'm always happier when things are out in the open instead of being guessed at by everyone watching but danced around by the characters. I had already accepted that there was 0 chance Taiga was not the destined woman back around school festival time but I held out some hope that they'd play it like Takasu gets what he thought he wanted and then finds it lacking instead of the Takasu finds out Taiga likes him and decides to just go with that since he lives to make Taiga happy angle it appears they're going to go.

I'm always up for a cat fight and Ami-Minorin was only an okay fight but it was better than nothing. I too have been getting fed up with Minorin's nonsense lately but I think she's trying to cope by pretending her problem doesn't exist. I certainly don't agree with that strategy but sometimes I find it difficult to hate on high school girls for being stupid about their feelings when there are secondary and tertiary consequences related to those feelings.

I think the best case scenario now for everyone would be Takasu becoming consumed with Taiga's confession, giving up on Minorin, possibly after being toyed with then pushed away again, and finally getting together with Taiga in the end with Ami riding off into the sunset alone and as miserable as ever.

[fireheart]

arch: Nope but I read parts of the novel mostly things that cover up to the episodes I watched. Don't want to read what will happen.

So no one else noticed the other stupid thing besides the whole where Taiga disappeared? Remember when the guys come to stop the fight, I'm quite surprised that everyone of them took the time to take of their skies and lift them up so the could stab them down in the snow with their sticks before trying to stop Ami and Minorin.


Guess some of my arguments doesn't always hold water since some of them are helped by reading stuff from the novels.

Anyway Minorin in my opinion have already more or less sorted out her feelings by now. While Ami does have a point with what she says and right in some things the things Minorin says back is just as true. Just becaus Ami usually have a good grasp on the situation doesn't mean she's right, she doesn't know exactly why she rejected him or what's going on in her mind etc.

Anyone ever wonder what Minorin was doing outside of Taiga and Ryuujis apartment when that's not even on her way to school? While Taiga went to Minorin to make sure she takes a step forward Minorin later went to Taigas place to confirm her feelings to see if it really was ok, in other words depending on how the talk would go she would have started going out with Ryuuji. Obviously though there weren't any need to ask after she saw Taiga crying and screaming for Ryuuji hence the rejection. Several times throughout the whole series it's been said how lonely Taiga is and that she doesn't really have anyone to support her other than Ryuuji. I'm guessing Minorin wants to but after the deal with Taigas father it just became harder seeing as Taiga as well closed up more after it happened.

So you should ask yourself what you would do in her situation. A friend you cared about for a long time and a guy that you actually like. Take the guy and she'll be all alone without anyone to really support her. Or reject the guy so he can still be there for her, somewhat similar to picking between love or friends. She made her choice in that and frankly I don't see anything wrong with that. What I find wrong is that people are all on Amis side and expecting Minorin to more or less have no feelings for Ryuuji and kill him off etc. Can you honestly just kill all your feelings for someone like it was nothing? Obviously Ami was right when she said she thought Minorin at least had some feelings for Ryuuji, but now she can't act on it and keep shoving it away.

She picked what she thought was right and from everything we've seen what Minorin suspected was true that Taiga liked Ryuuji and in this love triangle she backed away, yet that's somehow her fault for not wanting to "destroy" the only pillar of support that her friend have? Seriously what do you want her to do? What would you have done that's so much better except maybe actually talk about it? People can applaude Ami for still helping Ryuuji and trying to make him happy though he won't look her way but no one wants to give Minorin credit for giving up her feelings and a chance of being happy with Ryuuji for the sake of Taiga?

If you're going to be angry at anyone it should be Ryuuji while he hasn't really done anything wrong being there so much for Taiga and showing so much concern etc for her is missleading. Like Ami said the more he tries to take care of Taiga in his "daddy" mode the more he'll end up hurting people which is something that's already happened. It would have been enough if he didn't run after Taiga at the christmas party, at that moment he favored Taiga over Minorin and decided to say "screw all your effort to help me get together with Minorin, I just can' leave you alone" etc and run off. He's simply the cause while Minorins actions towards him is the effect.

By the way it's not really apperant but I'm not really in any camp.

[KrayZ33]

but no one wants to give Minorin credit for giving up her feelings and a chance of being happy with Ryuuji for the sake of Taiga?

that's the point, she didn't give up her feelings...
she didn't even end it clearly and that's also one thing Ami criticized in this episode.

On the one hand she rejects him and on the other hand she lets him come closer again, instead of making things clear.

basically she is doing nothing for like 10 episodes now...(except for spacing out and not knowing what to do of course, which she hides by making no sense at all)
I think what people hate about her is her attitude in the first place.

[Ryllharu]

On the one hand she rejects him and on the other hand she let him come close again, instead of making things clear.

Exactly. While Ami has all but admitted to Takasu that she knows she doesn't stand a chance, she still likes him. But she does make it clear. Ami does not want him persuing Taiga if he's just going to be a replacement father to her. Ami understands his want to protect Taiga, but she's fairly convinced it is not romantic love. To Ami, Takasu and Minorin are just playing house.

What pisses her off is that as much as she wants Takasu, she knows that Minorin has him. But Minorin pushes him away a little at a time. Minorin has the chance to be with him, unlike Ami, but she pretends she doesn't want him. Minorin refuses to push him away completely.

This frustrates Ami because Minorin strings Takasu along, and this doesn't give Ami a chance to move in. If Minorin doesn't want him, and Taiga isn't interested either (trying to give Takasu to Minorin) Ami is left wondering why she isn't allowed to make a move for him.


That's why some of us hate Minorin but applaud Ami. When Ami thought she'd lost, she gave him up. But now she's found that neither girl wants Takasu. Taiga was at least trying to make it clear she didn't want Ryuuji, Minorin keeps pulling him back and giving him false hope.

[fireheart]

It depends on how you view it. In my view she did give them up as I said in the most at the top of the page. She did more of a reset than a full rejection and the whole close can be debated because they aren't as close as before. She's not letting him "inside" as much as before now he's standing abit further away. Because to her now their relationship is mearly that of friends, she wants to view him that way and she wants him to view her that way as well.

Also a lot of it is the same as what Kanou did when she didn't answer to Kitamuras feeling and not giving a clear answer. In the same way Minorin doesn't want to lie so she says something else that's not a lie but relates to the matter at hand.

That's also the point why I said can you really just kill all your feelings like it was nothing? There's a certain amount of regret, she doesn't want to be totally cut out which is kinda like Ami said that she wants to be friendly with everyone. Obviously there are problems with it but she's doing what she can to try and make thing less uncomfortable.

Edit ryll: Actually Ami hasn't made anything clear about her feelings towards Ryuuji, nowhere has she really expressed to him how she feels. She's hinted mostly at times when he convinently didn't hear other than that no. And where does it show that Ami given up on him? She tries every now and then to hint at things and take a little step, that's not what I call giving up. She just never makes an outright clear move on him besides it wasn't that long ago that she pulled her last attempt to make a move.

And Minorin isn't stringing him along it's more as Ami herself said she just wants to be friends with everyone and frankly there's a lot of people like that. Just because you reject someone that you were friends with doesn't mean you can't be friends anymore. It's a conflict and it takes time before the complicated stuff clears up compared to if you just cut the relationship right there. As someone else said in Major S5 just because you can't have everything doesn't mean you don't want anything at all.

death: Found it funny how you say Minorin is pretending while Ami isn't seeing as that's what Ami did right at the start.

[Ryllharu]

Aside from you overuse of pronouns at the beginning (thought you were talking about Ami for a bit), I did figure out what you were going for.

I have to disagree though. What Kanou did to Kitamura is not something that should be used as a model. That's why Taiga flipped out at her enough to get suspended. Neither one (Kanou or Minorin) will give their love interest any closure. Kanou ignored it, trying not to give Kitamura enough hope that he would try to follow her, and Minorin is doing the same thing. She's refusing to say outright that she doesn't want to be with him (assuming it will destroy any friendship), and she's just hoping he forgets about it.

Minorin is wrong in thinking that the way she's doing things are going to make it any less uncomfortable. It's obviously only making things worse. Now, neither Taiga or Minorin claim they want Takasu. It's a shove-of-war because each are pushing him back to the other. Now that Ami sees that neither wants him, she wants back in, but Minorin isn't making any room the way she has been acting.

If she really wanted to give him up, yes, she would be able to kill her feelings. Ami didn't do too bad a job at it, and that's another part of what's pissing her off. Taiga even tried divine intervention.

People are going to get hurt, Ami knows it, Taiga knows it, but Minorin refuses to believe it. It just doesn't work that way.

I checked my facts and Ami didn't give up as I thought she did in the Christmas episode. She moved out of earshot and just gave a, "Whatever." However, when they were at the 'Sudoh-Bucks' in episode 20, Ami agreed to Taiga's terms of not hanging around him on the trip...until she heard that Minorin had rejected him. This is what sets her off again at Minorin. From Ami's reaction at the news, she had given up, albeit reluctantly, until she found that out. Then, she was still willing to take a second seat to Taiga, but not to Minorin if Minorin is going to keep rejecting him.

It probably wasn't intentional with the sled, but Ami still takes the interruption as more of Minorin's crap. Minorin is trying to force Ryuuji to Taiga, but she won't let Ami have a chance at all? Ami already knows that Taiga is trying to get Ryuuji together with Minorin.

as Ami herself said she just wants to be friends with everyone

I don't remember this part, do you have an episode and timestamp?

Just because you reject someone that you were friends with doesn't mean you can't be friends anymore. It's a conflict and it takes time before the complicated stuff clears up compared to if you just cut the relationship right there.

It actually changes everything. Nothing is really the same afterwards, and the knowledge of that rejection will always be in the minds of both individuals. In my personal experience and that of people I know, it very rarely ever "clears up." Those who think it will or think it has, like Minorin, usually end up getting hurt the most later on.

[fireheart]

Sorry about that kinda stressed at work with people coming in etc more so with the rest of the working squad being sick plus was answering the post above yours at first.

I never meant for it to be a model, it was to point out that the same thing has already happened in the show. And that both of them have respond somewhat the same way in not lying while evading it and leaving their own feelings shrouded in mist.

I still don't find her thinking wrong at least not for her. Sure it's not the ideal answer but when caught up in everything people don't always think clearly. Her way of thinking to me isn't wrong because what she suspected and thought was right on the mark since she's been suspecting Taiga having feelings for Ryuuji for a long time. The only thing that Minorin did wrong that I can think of is to not make it clear enough with the rejection. And that's understandable since come on she's 16 or something like that, doesn't want to lie and tell him she's dumping him because of Taiga etc.

Next is the rest from I said Minorin wants to be friends now so she acts friendly and face it honestly all the things Minorin has done since the rejection is hardly what I'd call interfering with what Ryuuji does. She's hardly done anything other than talk to him normally and even then it's never been that much talk and most of it been without any deeper meaning. So I don't see where her actions after the rejection has in any way been in the way.

There's also another thing that most aren't thinking about and that's the fact that she did it before he confessed to her. Part of the reason why I'm saying it is because technically nothing happened between them and nothing was said.

Also the only one that's really doing any shoving is Taiga, Minorin hasn't done any of a sort instead like I said she just took herself out of the lovetriangle or square but she doesn't know it's a square.

While you say Ami didn't do a bad job at giving up her feelings the same can be said when you talk about the opposite as well. She never really acted on her feelings, she could have done it and tried more than a couple of hints and no other words. So if she doesn't do anything from the start she doesn't have any right to complain.

I disagree on the hurting part because Ami knows people are going to get hurt, Taiga is expecting that only she gets hurt while Minorin is like Taiga and planning to bear the pain herself as well. So if you look at it the only one that doesn't realize that someone is going to really get hurt is Ryuuji.

I thought of her agreeing not being because she was giving up on him rather because she was pissed at Ryuuji for not listening to what she had to say. Kind of like your an idiot remark without actually saying it. Also on her reaction to the news I think it's more surprise because she expected Minorin to start going out with him and not reject him because she think/knows that Minorin likes Ryuuji. And she was willing to take a backseat to Minorin if she wasn't then she wouldn't have helped considering she has a hand in pushing Minorin forward towards Ryuuji.

And Minorin as I've said hasn't done anything to push Taiga and Ryuuji together other than take herself out of the whole thing. Simply because she thinks it'll work out on it's own as long as she isn't part of the matters of love. So exactly how has she been undermining Ami's chances? More so when she doesn't even know that Ami has feelings for Ryuuji.

I meant that Ami said to Minorin that Minorin just wants to be friends with everyone during their first argument in the last ep.

As I said before it depends, I've rejected people and still been on friendly terms with them without any problems and so have several others that I know of. It mostly depends on the one that get rejected if you ask me. Next is the matter that they didn't actually do the confession and rejection thing either so it's a little bit different.

But seriously though what would you do? More so when your dead set on not telling the other person about the reason for rejection nor lie. And as I've said many times now she just wants a reset to before they talking at the beach about ghosts and such.

[Ryllharu]

There's also another thing that most aren't thinking about and that's the fact that she did it before he confessed to her. Part of the reason why I'm saying it is because technically nothing happened between them and nothing was said.

Oh believe me, I thought about it. If anything, this is another mark against her. She wouldn't even let him confess. She knew exactly what he was about to do, and she pushed him away.

But, she didn't do it cleanly. She didn't say she doesn't like him or make an excuse, she didn't even let him speak. She interrupted, asked him to let her speak first, and then ran off before he could reply.

That's cowardice.

[Archangel]

I've only watched till episode 10 but somehow i get the feeling that all 4 of them have a crush on Ryu now

Edit: I caught up

Well, shit is getting really complex now. I don't like it how Ami is the one with the lowest chance of winning this one since i liked her character, but Taiga x Ryu is so obvious now that there's really no point in fighting it anymore.

Watching all these episodes at once is really one hell of a roller coaster of emotions:

I remember i enjoyed how the couples we're being setup,
starting to root for Taiga x Ryu,
hating Ami,
loving Ami,
rooting for Ami x Ryu,
having my head explode when Kitamaru confessed to the President,
recovering from my injuries while enjoying Ami's character development,
hating the chick with the read hair for being such a bitch,
having the rest of my poor brain bashed yet again by Taiga's tears on episode 19,
and i would say that the final moments of ep 21 pretty much destroyed whatever was left of my already damaged psyche.

Kind of too much info for just one post but i see that page long texts are pretty much a rule around here and i didn't want to fell left out

I guess I'll post again when the show is over ( ;_; only 4 left, god dammit i never catch the good ones on time )

[RyougaZell]

Toradora SOS
http://www.anirena.com/viewtracker.p...nload&id=20236

[Death BOO Z]

it's like someone animated a fan script made of crap... it's miles away from the way they act in the normal show (not even remotely close).


also, I thought it had some parts of borderline racism. (south Italians go like THIS, but north Italians do like THIS!. mock their craziness)