Well he is Ami's chilhood friend, so he obviously isn't normal. All the more being around Minorin, Taiga and Takasu... the later being the more balanced character of all should he be a girl (he is a lot like Minato for example).Originally Posted by animus
You could say that Kitamura, like Minorin really are creepy at times.
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
I completely loved Minorin and Takasu's interaction on this episode...
and Taiga got jealous at the end...
Don't really like Ami though.
Is that so?
I think Ami's part was the most important one in this episode and I think she is right about what she said.Minorin is the absolute opposite of Takasu.. (characterwise)
Also, I like it that she seems to be the only person who can somewhat speak clearly to Takasu... She might tease him a lot, but at least she is the one who's trying to make progress by asking him out all the time
Last edited by KrayZ33; Tue, 12-16-2008 at 10:59 AM.
That is right. Ami's role this episode was very good. But I still dislike her character. But I can agree her role is important.
Ami is my favorite character and the reason I continue to watch this show. I don't really care for either of the other two girls, Taiga and Minorin. Minorin did grow on me a little, with the interaction between her and Takasu, so I favor her over Taiga. I'm still hoping that somehow, Takasu and Ami end up together though.
Yes, but you can't take anything Ami ever says at face value. All she is is one lie after another. I think Taiga proved that the night Ami stayed over. Taiga got how many impressions out of her? Over a hundred, detailed and all on tape. Ami is really good at impressions because all she ever does is lie. She lies about what she likes, what she dislikes, whether she will do something, whether she won't, how she acts, and I even suspect that Ami lies to herself in how she thinks.
Ami is in general, not a nice person. She'd have been exactly the type of person to beat the shit out of her stalker (as long as no one else is looking). But she couldn't even admit to herself that she was afraid of or angry at the stalker. It might ruin her image, it might show her shameful side...all possible bullshit reasons she was telling herself.
Ami had absolutely no idea what she felt about the stalker, so she avoided him.
I don't think she really even considers Takasu one way or the other. The only reason she approached him was because Taiga had his attentions. He was just another person she was hoping to wrap around her finger. Kitamura knows all this, because he's known her for a long time. But Ami has no opinion of Kitamura at all. She doesn't seem to notice him in anything.
So now, I don't think Ami considers Takasu any differently. She just takes the opportunity of his knowledge about her "real" personality to act out against him. Her "for show" personality can't use that because she has to exude the perfect personality of a model. But Ami's "real" personality doesn't seem any more real than her "for show" personality. It's the fake kind of personality that someone who is trying to protect her "for show" personality's popularity would exhibit. The nasty scheming one to make herself popular with everyone around.
Ami isn't any more relaxed when she is "herself." She's still just as frustrated and stressed out. Kitamura wanted Taiga and Takasu to see her "true" personality so she wouldn't have to lie as much, but she isn't any different.
I don't think Ami has any kind of idea of who she is.
that's going to down a slippery road...
you can always argue that Ami has no personality (expect of of faking one) and build her entire character around it (she's trying to get rid of Taiga, because Ami's afraid that if people stop buying into her lies, she'll stop as well). and that everyone thing she does is in order to put other people in 'boxes', so she could catalog them as 'friend', 'enemy' or whatever, and organize her act accordingly.
it's a circular argument. it can't be disproof because its a conspiracy theory. if I say personality trait A, B and C, you'll say that she started doing A because of of one thing, and then built up B and C as fake layers of personality. it isn't going anywhere.
(I think I read about it in some book, the syndrome appears a lot in highly intelligent kids)
about the episode (10): I liked it, somewhat funny, not breath-taking interesting, but definitely not puke-inspired crap. in the great role of things, Kitamura is still characterless and Minorin keeps going from over-hyper-active fun to spiritual-speaker. and I don't consider this to be a well-balanced character, it's so over-the-top that it reeks of gag-driven plot design.
sig made by Itachi-y2k5, thanks, dude!
Currently Watching: probably a show directed at 9 years old girls, lets be honest.
You know the important distinction between Batman and me? Batman is fictional. In real life, there isn't always an alternative.
I'd undoubtedly grant that you'd be correct if I had applied my argument to any other character in any other series, but I think there is a fair amount of evidence so far to back up my stance. Sure, it is largely circumstantial at this point, since they haven't really gone into Ami much aside from the episodes where Taiga pissed her off enough to lash out in semi-public.
I don't think it is a circular argument for two reasons:
a) I'm not saying Ami has no personality, I'm saying her lies ARE her personality. If she has a real one, I don't think we've really seen more than a few minutes of it.
The real Ami is the one who does all those impressions without even thinking for one second that the idea is stupid. She did them soley because Taiga told her to (with a little threat to get it all started). Ami doesn't know who she is because she has always tried to live up to a lie the whole time. Be popular, have lots of friends, have guys fawn over you. Kitamura knows this, and he's done a damn good job of giving Ami some actual friends she can somewhat be herself around. But she hasn't made it there yet. She still lies to everyone close to her.
The reason why of course, is the other reason.
b) Ami's parents.
Ami's mother is a famous model/actress (or whatever). Of course everyone expects the daughter to be just as pretty, just as perfect, and just as talented. So Ami did those things too. Because it was what was expected of her. I don't think the real Ami gives a shit about any of that. She just does it because it is what people would expect her to do. I doubt her parents even care if she follows in her mother's footsteps or not. We know that for a while, she kept up with it, but suddenly she transfers schools (just because of the stalker?) and stops modeling.
The real Ami isn't the one who flirts with Takasu, she isn't the one who she shows to everyone outside of that circle, she isn't the one who looks like she's having fun with Taiga and pals, and she's not the one who so frequently declares something boring and wanders off.. The real Ami doesn't give a shit about anything. We saw her in the cave for a little while, we see her stuffed between the vending machines before she notices Takasu.
Ami has spent so much time enveloped in these lies that she doesn't actually know what she wants, what she likes. That's why everything is boring to her, while she is always pissed off when she stops pretending. She quickly wraps herself in her faked personalities and fulfills that ideal girl concept. She just hasn't spent long enough being herself to ever find out who she really is.
EDIT:
(by the way, pulling the "it's circular logic" argument is just a convenient way to say,
"You're wrong, and I am declaring that there is nothing you can say to prove that me calling you wrong isn't true."
You need a valid counter-argument. Circular logic would be more akin to me saying that Taiga is angry because she is lonely, and lonely because she is angry.)
Last edited by Ryllharu; Tue, 12-16-2008 at 08:15 PM.
To be honest, I have problems following the conversation...
what are you trying to say Ryll? I have problems with the statement that Ami doesn't know herself
that's exactly why she has that fake-personality... she wants to be popular, have lots of friends and guys fawn over her... but with her real personality, such a thing would be impossible, because she is *exactly* like Taiga.Ami doesn't know who she is because she has always tried to live up to a lie the whole time. Be popular, have lots of friends, have guys fawn over you
I think her "inner thoughts" showed us that she *cares* for that... She is absolutely self-centered... don't you remember the pool scene when she said to herself "That's right, lick my beautiful shadow you maggots, that's the most delicious food you can get, right?!" Also, she *loves* to watch herself in the mirror which is why she is sometimes late and people have to wait for her.So Ami did those things too. Because it was what was expected of her. I don't think the real Ami gives a shit about any of that.
I think it would be stupid (for now) to say that this personality isn't her true one.
Ami also envies Taiga... she even made that remark after the Stalker scene. She didn't really say "I envy Taiga" but what she said is. "Isn't she strong? Self centered... always in a mess..... and she doesn't even try to hide it... yet she has friends"
So Ami wants to become just like her.. but she fears that she won't be popular anymore... she is scared of losing her "friends" because she knows that they are only her friends because of her faked-attitude... if she would stop acting so nice and kind, she would probably end like Taiga in the beginning of Toradora.....without any friends. However it's true that she hasn't considered it yet to stop faking her personality and to try it the "normal" way.
I think the last conversation in ep. 10 (Takasu + Ami) give away a lot of answers about this topic.
Takasu:" Isn't it about whether you'd be lonely or not?" (without him beeing around)
Ami: "I've never really considered whether I'm lonely or not"
Takasu: "Then consider it!"
Ami: "Isn't that a bit painfull?" (she doesn't want to admit it?)
Takasu: "If it's painfull, just straightforwardly express that emotion" (don't hide it, be yourself)
Takasu: I mean we're....
Ami: .... equal (both Takasu and Ami have problems finding real friends, for different reasons though)
At least that's what I made out of the small conversation at the end
Last edited by KrayZ33; Wed, 12-17-2008 at 10:01 AM.
Maybe you're right, but I still think it is too soon to tell. To me, Ami still hasn't gotten to who she really is. She's even more tightly held than Taiga.
We'll just have to wait and see.
Toradora 11 - Coalguys
Toradora 12 - Coalguys
Well, first off, I'm loving the OP and ED. They're great, as I actually sit through them, and I have quite the unpatient personality.
The series began with a very interesting premise. A gentle and misunderstood man with a mean face comes across a loli like girl who, for some reason, has a personality that completely defies her outer appearence. The situation was revealed to us rather fast; they both had crushes and they couldn't quite admit it. I loved the offbeat quirkyness, the lack of reservation that Taiga had in just kicking anyone's ass, yet her clumsy sincerity when trying to admit - or deny - her true feelings towards her crush. I was very frustrated at her complete bitchyness, however. Did she really have to be that extreme? Was it that hard for her to show even a little apprecriation towards one who has selflessly done so much for her? I was able to accept this, though, and it really is a shows a great contrast of personalities when Ami shows up.
Both Taiga (spoiled bitch) and Ami (spoiled bitch) have brutally cold personalities. The only difference is Taiga is really a Tsundere who for some reason is too scared to bare her, shall I call them delicate emotions. I have to say I like Ami. She's rather effective at being manipulative, and I think that's cool. As soon as she discovers a weakness in someone she will milk it for all it is worth. She could be a spy or something. It seems that when she manipulates people she has a sense of power, or safety, something that she severly lacks when being stalked by some perv who would follow her across the nation.
But the amazing part of the contrast between Ami and Taiga is even if Ami is cold and terrible on the inside, it's definitely obvious that she is nice on the outside because of fear of being alone, or rejected, or just not up to the ignorant standards of others. Though Taiga is almost incapable of expressing her deep feelings for Kitamura, she truly is brave in comparison to Ami. Taiga will walk home by herself with her head held high and a sword in her hand, while Ami will hide behind a pile of clothes and disguises. I liked that Ami was inspired momentarily to take off her mask and thus her fear with the stalker, however, when she saw how differently Taiga handled things. It was a bit touching. Sometimes I think that Taiga should kick Ami's ass for being such a bitch towards her, but then I remember how much of a bitch Taiga is towards Takasu and I feel like she deserves it. This show has quite a circle of infactuation and/or hatred, doesn't it? Either way, the way that Taiga deals with Ami is perfect: blackmail or simply ignoring her. I wonder if this is really how Kitamura expects her to make friends, I think it's better off for her if she just wears her mask, but this show is all about showing your true self, no matter what, it seems.
I was a bit annoyed during episode two when Taiga finally confessed to Kitamura about her feelings. She clearly said something along the lines of 'kitamura ga suki desu!!!!!!' but he just ignored that and pretended that she was talking about Takasu. At first I attributed this to the fact that he was gently rejecting her because he just wasn't attracted to her, and he realized that she was better of with Takasu anyway. Then we slowly find out that this is otherwise and then he finally admits he had a crush on her?! WTF then. And if this is simply a matter of pride then I am severly annoyed.
It's interesting how most of the character's true personalities are covered up by some sort of artificial or natural barrier. Kushieda has some sort of depth or issue that is covered by her constant working and cheeriness, which is discovered when she's stuck in the shed with Takasu, and when she used 'reverse psychology' to pretend that she was scared during the trip to the villa. And Ami - well it's obvious with her. Even Takasu is a liar and perhaps even a coward, upon failling his mission, he tells Kushieda he wanted to show her ghosts when he really only wanted to manipulatively be her knight in shining armor.
Taiga and Takasu just might fall in love, and if that happens, I will be highly dissapointed. Because theirs will not be the exciting and satisfying love that they could have with their potential crushee's but a more calm, enduring, even conflicting love that is bred from familiarity; accidental and utterly predictable. BORING! For that sake, they should not be together. Right now the situation is almost lame, no matter what they say or do, everyone else will think they are meant for each other. If you were to pry someone's eyes open with a tool they would still think that. If only Taiga and Takasu's romantic feelings could be conveyed effectively! I'll be pissed if Kushieda ends up with Kitamura.
PS - The bird is freakin' awesome. Oh, and the prostitute mom, too.
PPS - The manga is still ongoing, maybe no one will hook up at all. -_- *worst/most likely case scenario!!* In that case I might as well stop watching~!11
Last edited by Sapphire; Sat, 12-20-2008 at 11:57 PM.
"Leaving hell is not the same as entering it." - Tierce Japhrimel
So many walls of texts..
Are Coalguys' subs any good? I've never heard of them before.
Half the time they release very watchable subs, certainly better than Chihiro or Aero, and the other half of the time they release troll subs. So you really can't tell what kind of release each one is, often from episode to episode.
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
I had to lol at Minorin's Yugioh-inspired rambling over the pictures and Tiaga's brutal 'unmarried' attack on that poor hopeless teacher but other than those scenes I didn't find this ep all that funny. On the serious side I think I'm starting to get tired of all the "Taiga's life sucks so much" plot elements since nothing seems to be coming of them. Ami's seemingly aimless self reflection didn't really make sense to me but maybe the point they were trying to make was that she'd never felt contentment from being truly appreciated or something.
I have a bit of a thing for the Student Council Prez so I hope they'll go into more details about what she said to Kitamura. It was likely a confession of love but maybe it'll be something more surprising instead. Overall though I feel like the show lost a lot of steam in the transition from 13 to 14, hopefully they can build it back up somehow and finish strong.
hum.... where are my qq-subs :/
I don't want to download CoalGuys-subs because of your last sentence.Half the time they release very watchable subs, certainly better than Chihiro or Aero, and the other half of the time they release troll subs. So you really can't tell what kind of release each one is, often from episode to episode.
That was mostly for ef - a tale of melodies though, they have been subbing Toradora more than adequately so far.
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