I think she shouldn't compare what she did in Alaska to the rest of America. The rest of America isn't close to and is nothing like Alaska.
I think she shouldn't compare what she did in Alaska to the rest of America. The rest of America isn't close to and is nothing like Alaska.
Last edited by Jaitne; Fri, 10-03-2008 at 02:16 PM.
They still need to work on their pronunciation of nuclear. That shit annoyed me so much during the debate (and in general), sound the word out, fuck.
That's interesting because most results from undecided viewers strongly suggested that Palin won the debate.Originally Posted by animus
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
And there's a reason why that those viewers are still undecided at this stage.
[Full disclosure. I have every intention of voting for Obama.]
Jaitne, the second link is from Huff Post. They are one of the most biased sites on the internet. They are so disgustingly pro-Obama that nothing they ever post can be trusted. During the primaries, nearly every article they had was anti-Hillary, and now that she's been out of the running, they turned their guns first on McCain, and now on Palin. Huffington Post is the internet version of Fox News for Obama. "Journalism" is a term I can only vaguely use for them, it's almost entirely sensationalist propoganda.
As for the debate:
I think it ultimately ends up as a draw.
Some 3000 journalists and "journalists" applied for Press Passes to the debate, the most there have ever been. What they were expecting to see was two things.
1) Palin falling flat on her face like she did during the few interviews she did.
2) Biden making an ass of himself like he has historically in the past (either long-winded, wrong, or otherwise outspoken).
Neither happened. The expectations for Palin were so low that even being articulate and not excessively roundabout (like she was in Couric's interview) would be enough for the debate to be a success. Biden was able to not say anything too far out of turn, and both of them had mostly minor inaccuracies in a few of their claims.
Palin has always succeeded at debates. She's deceptively evil in how she wins them. She doesn't sound like a politician, she doesn't always answer the question, but she's unbelievably good at connecting with the average uninformed voter. An interview with the candidates who ran against her in Alaska on NPR's Morning Edition said it right out, and even the Independant candidate wrote a letter recently (the site escapes me) covering mostly the same effect. Palin is the undisputed master of the non-answer.
To that effect, she was kicking Biden's ass in the beginning of the debate. He would frequently answer his questions by attacking McCain, while Palin would do the usual. She connected with the average voter with her usual message, explaining how she's no different from them. Instead of attacking Obama's record as Biden had expected her to, she would say what McCain was going to do. They used Obama's strategy of not using negative campaigning against Biden. She was easily able to cast Biden as the typical "Washington insider" by not playing the attack dog game that the VP debates usually are supposed to be.
Luckily, Biden realized what she was doing and after he had warmed up, the debate shifted from that strategy of attacking, and went on to a real debate format. Eventually, they would slip in a little attack here and there, but it was mostly explaining. This is where Biden gained the advantage. Palin's "home grown charm" only works so far, and on at least a few questions, she would avoid the issue entirely...but on at least one, so did Biden. He asked the moderator if he could go on a complete tangent.
That is why I think the debate was ultimately a draw. For each point that one party won, the other took something else.
Palin only needed to not fail in order to avoid another disaster in their campaign. While she didn't always answer the question, she sounded articulate, but still rough enough to make it appear that Biden was the insider, and still part of the Old Guard (which he is). That will work against Obama's message of change. However, Biden clearly kicked the Republican ticket's ass on the economy...with the exceptions of Palin's charge that earmarks and pork will end.
That works especially well for them considering every American now knows about the bailout and the 150 Billion Dollars of pork slapped into it.
That reason being that they don't have a skewed preference one way or the other?
I'm really not sure where you're getting at with this.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
The reason being that they don't have already a good opinion formed over the past year and a half through personal research, or just knowledge of recent political happenings in general. There's ample coverage to form an opinion.
Chances are if you're undecided at this point it's either A) You're uninformed, B) Not planning to vote, or C) Don't favor either candidate (Which can fall directly under B)
Honestly, if those undecided viewers aren't some brainwashed hick drone of exterme conservative America already, and they believe Palin won the debate which is about real issues and VP viability they most definitely fall under A, or believe the debate should use congeniality as a way to measure a win or a loss. Personally, I find it a terrible way to gauge winning a debate.
Palin just has to go. I am so sick of watching her call herself a "soccer mom" and saying something to the "Joe 6-packs" out there. Uh huh yea you betcha! wink wink. America should feel insulted by her sickly sweet condescension.
Die bitch.
"They call it 'The American Dream' because you have to be asleep to believe it" - George Carlin
C can also mean both candidates tell you things that you like and dislike equally....which doesn't necessarily mean you're not planning to vote.
The same setup using undecided voters suggested Obama won in the last presidental debate, so maybe you're right and it is a terrible way to gauge winning a debate.Honestly, if those undecided viewers aren't some brainwashed hick drone of exterme conservative America already, and they believe Palin won the debate which is about real issues and VP viability they most definitely fall under A, or believe the debate should use congeniality as a way to measure a win or a loss. Personally, I find it a terrible way to gauge winning a debate.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I didn't read the second one I posted, to be honest. Plus, I could careless how biased or unbiased they are, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. That also doesn't mean that when they did take the polls, that they weren't favouring Biden, which is kind of what they said. The second one that you said was very pro-Obama has also said that the VP debate helped to push one state into basically loving the Republican ticket even more.
I don't know why Palin says she's like an average American. Living in Alaska doesn't make you an average American; it doesn't even make you close to everyone else in the continental US. Alaska is the only state that the people get paid (because of their negative income tax) just for living there. Alaska is the only state that has only certain times when you have to work because of where it is. Alaska is also the only state that has like.. 1 hour of light during a period of time, and 1 hour of night.
Plus, the soccer mom pitt bull thing was an insult to females, in my opinion. But I guess all those women who clapped liked being called a bitch by a woman.
Also, voting for someone is better than not voting at all, at least you gave your opinion in. Not everyone is in a party where they get a whole lot of exposure.
Gogo, second presidential debate.
Honestly, do McCain and Palin know much facts behind the Enron scandals or Fanny May and Freddy Mak. Or have anything other than saying for the millionth time that American workers are the hardest workers, most innovative, etc. I can't help but laugh at that. I guess that's why we have all these mexicans in restaurants doing jobs they don't wanna do.
Their whole debate agenda is to compliment Americans as much as possible. And McCain's proposal about the US Treasury buying up bad housing loans, has got to be the worst idea ever.
And as usual Tom Brokaw sounds like a deep-voiced motor boat.
Last edited by animus; Wed, 10-08-2008 at 05:55 PM.
I went and voted yesterday... was very fast and easy, now lets hope my electronic ballot isn't tampered with!
To me Obama just seems like the more genuine candidate. I really hate partisan politics...
I don't think John McCain had even heard of Sarah Palin before the campaign. and I really think that a president should have some sort of ties to the vice president... even... picking them themselves! not just have some random female governor be chosen because she's a republican woman.
I think Barack has the general election in the bag. Lets see how the electoral college decides to vote though.
My views on the election:
If Obama wins, racial tensions in the US will become a major issue. I heard on the news today some white guys got arrested for planning to kill black people and Obama. I see something terrible happening to Obama if he is elected president, and the subsequent riots and racial anger will be equally terrible.
I personally feel that blacks will unnecessarily see his victory as a cultural statement that they deserve something more: more affirmative action, maybe slavery reparations, more representation in public offices, more executive jobs in corporations, etc., whether they earn it and deserve it or not. The funny thing is, Obama himself is a rich elitist who has more in common with wealthy white people than he does with 95% of black people.
The upside of his presidency is that Obama can say things that a white politician can't without being branded a racist. He can say "black folks need to take care of their own business and stop relying on government handouts" and guys like Al Sharpton can't dismiss him as a bigot and call for his impeachment. These same kinds of statements were what got Jesse Jackson so upset with Obama when Jackson made the infamous "I want to cut his nuts off" comment.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
Wait, what?
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
my wife and I have talked about that before... way too many crazy white people who could want to take out barack if he's elected. Riots would be terrible if this happened, I agree. Sort-of like the first season of 24, except I dont' think the people wanting to harm him have any direct ties to him... they are just racists.
On reparations though... I think any serious talk of reparations should be laughed at. I'm not arguing that slavery was wrong and that alot of blacks were treated in a sub-human way... but it's 2008. We've moved past that and if people want reparations they should ask all the famous afro-american people, athletes to share the wealth... and if any athletes of true african lineage are asking for repairations, they obviously don't realize how they got where they are. There is no NFL in africa... no NBA in africa. If Michael Jordan was born in Africa... maybe he would grow up to school his skinny peers on the court, but he would not be a legend around the world.
Which part are you having difficulty with?
I think you had to be there or grown up with that in your family history to be able to say whether or not we're past that. I think most people would take free money if it's offered. I don't think we've heard the last of demands for slavery reparations. If Obama is elected, it will become an issue again. Not that he shouldn't be elected for that reason, just that one will lead to the other.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
You know what I'm not even going to bother, its a waste of time.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Try to look at the statement objectively instead of immediately getting defensive about it. I hear all kinds of cracks about the unhealthiness of Chinese food imports and you don't see me crying about it.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
Shut up Animeniax. You don't even know what it is I have a problem with but you're talking about looking at things objectively, and I'm not one to defend black people. Anyway you already seem to have your mind made up as to what my POV is, which is why I said it would just be a waste of time.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
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