Well.. I think people should vote, just because if they don't, then they shouldn't really complain about who's put into office because they didn't help choose.
Though a lot of choices that are made are done by the Congress and not just the President, I thought.
In fact like in France, the problem comes from the fact that runners for president are a result of party choices and media.Originally Posted by Jaitne
The problem is that parties represent a very small portion of the population, like the media.
Yet the one elected will still run the nation.
I know you'll answer that everyone should apply to a party so that the choice of runners is better...
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
In some places in America, you can only vote for which party you're in (in the primary, I think it's called). Open and closed brackets?
Once the real runners are picked for each party, some places can choose not to place a party on their ballot if they're not popular enough, etc. Everyone who is of age, isn't in jail or on parole, and is registered can vote in America, I thought.
A party can pick who gets to head off, but the people are supposed to be the one who say who they like better or don't (at least in America). Then.. after they win the primaries, their party is supposed to officially do something that says they can run for president after they finish off their ticket.
You don't have to be in the party you're voting for,depending on where you are all the time, but you definitely don't have to be in the party you're voting for in the ending elections.
I also think you'll probably have to have some good qualities and have been in the government for such and such a time to be taken seriously as running for the presedential spot, popular parties or not.
Yes of course you have other runners, even in France, but usually, in the end, only the parties' ones remain.
And the ones running for the party supremacy, when they lose, are smashed by the media, most of the time. Being smashed in that case is: black out on them, or only to remind everyone they didn't make it.
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
I'd vote for mcain. Lets face it, america's foriegn policy (which is the only think i care about) wont change at all, regardless of who's president because ultimately its not the president who's deciding it. Even for domestic politics, you may have a black president but the rest of washington is still white. Dont expect miraculous changes just cuz a black guy gets elected.
Atleast with mcain, we'll see the fucked up shit that goes on and the world wont just turn a blind eye to the US and the terribly destructive shit that they do, both on the homefront and abroad. Obama has a lot more sense and though the policies wont change, he'll atleast make it seem like things are on the mend and we'll go back to the way things have been for the past 2 decades, with everyone getting fucked and white(rich) america getting everything it wants.
People in parties are the only ones that can run for president, I thought. Republicans and Democrats aren't the only ones with parties. There's the Green Party, the Libertarian Party, the Socialist Party, Communist Party, etc. There are so many parties in the US it's not even funny >.>
The Republican party is a little more organized than the Democratic one, and those two are the largest in America, but they're not the only ones who have had presidents, they're just the only ones who have had people become presidents in a while. That doesn't mean that some random, third party candidate can't get enough people to vote for him/her and win, it just hasn't happened lately.
Well, it wasn't JUST because he's black. It's primarily because he's smart, and at least his rhetoric says that while he doesn't have an aversion to combat if necessary, he'll do all he can to be as diplomatic as possible. I do think his color will make his reception a little bit better among people in the world whose skin tones matches his. Ani mentioned that there's deep seated racism against black americans in the middle east. Well, I've heard middle easterners, both in person and in the news, saying things that very closely paraphrase "these rich white devils are the cause of your problems, and ours."
Now, sure, while the rest of Washington may be primarily white, the president is kind of the face to the world. The actuality of the matter, matters less than you might think. Case in point, Dubya is essentially a script reader. Occasionally he goes off it, but no one likes it when he does. "His" policies aren't his. This is pretty much true for any president. However, in an international survey, Bush was voted as the second most dangerous person in the world following Osama Bin Laden. The script reader is seen as the #2 biggest threat to international peace and security.
Anyone who just doesn't give a damn like me? Somebody said to me, "It's because of people like me, that the world is in a mess."
lol.... Because I don't care about politics, the world becomes a mess? It's not only the presidents fault that this world, or, the US is so fucked up. It's the people. Actually, it's money.
<.< You should go talk about the future of America.
The president is appointed by the people, so if they wanted a messed up place, then it is there fault, but the people who did vote have a bigger reason to complain. The person either didn't do the job they wanted them to do, or they never wanted them in office in the first place.
If you didn't make a choice, then, like you said, you didn't care, so however things go.. I guess you're just going to have to deal with it like everyone else. It's not because of the people who don't vote that the world is a mess, in my opinion, because they don't. You can be mad or happy about what happens, but you can't say you had a choice in it.
But that's my opinion :O
Obama because it's better for the world.
Honestly, when I think about it. I don't wanna vote Obama in. Not because I don't like him, but it might be a JFK repeat. There'll be white supremacists and just straight up dumbasses that can't take someone that isn't white being President. I fear there may be attempts on his life.
I have a lot less experience with them than Ani, but the couple of Middle Eastern people I have talked with about anything other than work and such were careful not to be referred as darker skinned at all. They didn't appear racist but made a point they don't consider themselves dark skinned. But who knows, since it's just a couple of people, maybe they didn't represent the larger feelings over there, and certainly they weren't opposed to the West; they were willingly here, after all.
And animus, your thinking is twisted. The person making that decision is Obama himself. I believe he knows himself there might be a few lunatics out there willing to take his life should he win the office. After that it's his own business and that of the Secret Service. Your thinking only gives power to the extremists and other fanatics who would rule by fear like in so many dictatorships and theocracies. In fact your thinking is extremely dangerous to democracy.
@Jaitne: no offense, you know I love you (platonic) and all, but you need to attend a few US government courses before speaking further about the topics covered here.
@Kraco: I work for my company's operations in the Middle East, and black employees were routinely racially profiled and pulled aside for special screening at the airport. It started because a few blacks were busted for drug possession (life sentence in most Middle Eastern countries), which was all the excuse they needed to treat all American blacks as if they were perps. Keep in mind also that your average African-African claims no ties to African-Americans (as seen on MTV) and looks down on them. And of course you should already know from discussions on the forums how yellow people view black people.
I agree with animus. Some crackpot will take a shot at Obama and this will lead to riots and possibly a race war in the US. Obama has said he discussed the threat with his family before he decided to become a candidate for the presidency, but shrugged it off, saying the Secret Service would protect him. Good luck to any secret service agent trying to block a shot from a .50 cal sniper rifle.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
I had a discussion with some guy at work concerning Obama getting killed by some crackpot, and after that discussion, I doubt it'll happen. He'll be secured up the wazoo with secret service like none before him. So some crackpot taking him out needs to actually be well trained, and well connected, i.e. not a crackpot. If Obama gets killed, it'll probably be because he's talking some idealistic stuff that the powers that be don't want people to hear, let alone contemplate and start pushing for.
People in parties are the only ones who have the slightest chance of getting elected, and in fact, it only matters if they are the Democratic or Republican parties (which today means they are the same party, the only policies that differ are moral ones). Third party candidates don't matter one whit anymore.
You want a country that has a lot of parties? Look to Europe. Italy, various countries in Scandinavia, Spain, etc. America has only two parties that matter, and in reality, they are the same party. Insiders (Democrat, Republican, old-hat Independents) or Outsiders.
It is in the American Constitution that anyone born in the country and over the age of 35 can be elected President. But the truth of the matter is something far from that. You need: a) lots of money, b) lots of friends with lots of money, c) connections to the same corrupt circle.
As Animeniax said, you might need to brush up on a few American civics courses, and then take a HUGE dose of cynicism to get the real picture.
I'm in American Government right now. I'm just not being cynical about everything, apparently.
Another party is can win, just because Republicans and Democrats are the top ones doesn't mean that another party can't win again. If they get a large enough following, then they probably could.
And third party candidates do matter, in a way. That's why Bill Clinton won against George Bush Senior, because a whole lot of Republicans decided to vote for a third party candidate.
Maybe pay better attention in class then
Truth is, the popular vote doesn't matter much at all, so it doesn't matter what any of us think. The founders didn't trust in the judgment of the unlearned masses, so they established the electoral system, which are primarily representatives from the same political circles as the candidates. They're supposed to represent the will of their constituents by voting in accord with the popular vote for their area, but it's not mandatory and doesn't always happen.
Cynicism isn't required, but blind idealism and faith in the system doesn't give you a realistic picture of how our "democratic" government is run.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
How I see it shouldn't matter to everyone, though. We're all entitled to our own opinons and I can see things and believe what I want about politics and how the government is run. Just because you think I have blind faith or idealism in how things are run, doesn't mean that I do have it. That's your opinion on me.
Regardless of what everyone else thinks, I do think third party candidates matter. If that makes me not realistic in everyone else's eyes, then oh well.
I am paying attention in class, thank you very much!
:P Of course, that's at least what I'm getting out of what's being said.
Now I'm confused. What did you just say?
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I'll believe what I want, and you guys can believe what you want.
I believe that third party candidates do matter, and you all don't.
I think that's what I meant >.> I'm too lazy to reread my post.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
