Naruto vs. Sasuke

[Abdula]

physics never do apply in Naruto.

We are talking about Naruto right.

[shinta|hikari]

Exactly. I already wrote that down before you commented that "we grossly underestimate lightning". My comment was obviously about actual lightning and how Naruto managed to twist it. Heck you even quoted me saying it doesn't apply.

You should have clarified your edit before that and said "You people grossly underestimate lightning in Naruto". Then no one would complain.

[Uchiha Barles]

but kirin isn't chidori, kirin doesn't even use his chakra, its pure lightning and like Zetsu said the power of that is more than anyone could ever create with chakra and nature manipulation alone, its like what the filler guys tried to do with Raiga only its actually canon and there is a capable ninja using it .

Alright, you do have a point on that. Nonetheless, Kakashi cut through a lightning bolt, supposedly, with a chidori. I mean, that has to be way more power than anyone could ever make with ninjutsu, a lightning bolt I mean. What keeps me from agreeing with you is the description of the rasengan. It's like, the unbreakable shield. A ball you just can't compress any further. I'm thinking the rasengan is being underestimated here. And yes, I'm seeing Naruto flying with his wind rasengan out, literally carving his way through the kirin. An unbreakable ball of an element that's not going anywhere. You also mentioned that the size of the kirin would basically insure that even if the rasengan connected, the kirin would still harm and probably kill the user. You know what I see, as I've seen in a lot of other anime? When the rasengan and kirin connect, instead of breaking a path the size of the rasengan itself, it'll carve a path through the kirin as if it was an unbreakable umbrella of wind element that Naruto was holding out ahead of himself, thus allowing him to go right through it, unharmed. Come on man, you see it too :-P.

As far as jutsu power impressions go, I hate to admit it, but that shinta guy has a couple of points. The fourth couldn't pull off an elemental rasengan in his shortened lifetime, and the most powerful techniques are the ones that come at a cost to the user's health.

Other than these things though, I've got nothing. The fact that kirin's power is more than a person should be able to generate using ninjutsu born of his own chakra is a good point.

[Marik]

I go with Rasenshuriken, because it's already extremely powerful and dangerous at 50%. It'll be even better when he completes it and can actually throw it. Once he's able to throw it, I think it will be harder to dodge and lessen the range advantage of Kirin.

If I remember correctly, Wind beats Lightning in the Naruto world. I think it's Wind -> Lightning -> Earth -> Water -> Fire -> Wind. Wind seems to be the more rarer of the two also. Naruto is the only wind user in Konoha, now that Asuma is dead.

Man I've been hoping for a long time that Naruto gets a second element like water, then he could have an answer to both of Sasuke's elements. Then he could combine water and wind into ice like Haku.

[Uchiha Barles]

I go with Rasenshuriken, because it's already extremely powerful and dangerous at 50%. It'll be even better when he completes it and can actually throw it. Once he's able to throw it, I think it will be harder to dodge and lessen the range advantage of Kirin.

If I remember correctly, Wind beats Lightning in the Naruto world. I think it's Wind -> Lightning -> Earth -> Water -> Fire -> Wind. Wind seems to be the more rarer of the two also. Naruto is the only wind user in Konoha, now that Asuma is dead.

Man I've been hoping for a long time that Naruto gets a second element like water, then he could have an answer to both of Sasuke's elements. Then he could combine water and wind into ice like Haku.

They said something about wind being very rare, but uh...I'm almost sure, we've seen more wind users than any other element user. Might've seen more of other elements, but I think as far as user number, we've seen more wind users. Also, Neiji uses wind element.

[Archangel]

Man I've been hoping for a long time that Naruto gets a second element like water, then he could have an answer to both of Sasuke's elements. Then he could combine water and wind into ice like Haku.

Haku was only able to do that because of his bloodline limit. Even if naruto does gain control over another element he will never be able to combine them.

Also, Neiji uses wind element.

We don't know that for sure.

[Uchiha Barles]

We know for sure he used a wind element hadoken type technique during the "clone wars". whether it's his first element or not, is another story, but wind is the only element we've seen him use.

[Archangel]

For one thing that's a filler since it didn't come in the manga and also it's never specified that it is a wind technique, he doesn't say futton in the beginning of it ( at least i don't think he did, i'll check )

[itadakimasu]

No contest, Sasuke wins.

Agreed.

especially w\ the atomic sharingan.... naruto was no match when he just had regular sharingan and 90% fewer moves.

[Sidnne]

Sorry, I'm not a Sasuke fan, but I had to go with Kirin.

The version of rasengan you are discussing is not the same "level" as kirin in terms of jutsu upgrades in an anime setting and thus can't be compared. That rasengan was designed to be on the level of the chidori current. Whatever Naruto learns from his sage training will be the counter to kirin.

Look at it this way:

Level 1: Chidori vs Rasengan
Level 2: Chidori Nagashi vs Fuuton Rasengan
Level 3: Kirin vs Sage Technique

[Archangel]

The full body chidori will be used to counter the Rasenshuriken ???

U think sasuke has too many body parts or something?

[DB_Hunter]

The only way Naruto will be able to 'counter' Kirin is if he learns Minato's Thunder Flash teleportation technique... which if timed correctly will be able to avoid the one shot Sasuke has, leaving Sasuke open and drained to attack.

[Sidnne]

The full body chidori will be used to counter the Rasenshuriken ???

U think sasuke has too many body parts or something?

Ummm... What?

[Abdula]

What keeps me from agreeing with you is the description of the rasengan. It's like, the unbreakable shield. A ball you just can't compress any further. I'm thinking the rasengan is being underestimated here.

Sorry but I'm long past the point of believing any hype about the rasengan. Just look how hyped up it was when Naruto got it, incredible A rank technique created by the fourth, that for some reason only a few people can do but yet Sasuke's B ranked chidori ended up being a match for it.

And yes, I'm seeing Naruto flying with his wind rasengan out, literally carving his way through the kirin. An unbreakable ball of an element that's not going anywhere. You also mentioned that the size of the kirin would basically insure that even if the rasengan connected, the kirin would still harm and probably kill the user. You know what I see, as I've seen in a lot of other anime? When the rasengan and kirin connect, instead of breaking a path the size of the rasengan itself, it'll carve a path through the kirin as if it was an unbreakable umbrella of wind element that Naruto was holding out ahead of himself, thus allowing him to go right through it, unharmed. Come on man, you see it too :-P.

Yeah I see it too and it would be incredibly cheesy but I certainly could see Kishimoto doing that, the one problem I have is this unbreakable stuff because Naruto's rasengan isn't that reliable.

They said something about wind being very rare, but uh...I'm almost sure, we've seen more wind users than any other element user. Might've seen more of other elements, but I think as far as user number, we've seen more wind users. Also, Neiji uses wind element.

Yes if I remember correctly we have only seen three people use lightning. Kakashi, Sasuke and Kakuzu but there have been a number of wind users, Naruto, Asuma, Temari, Baki, again Kakuzu. Wind affinity seems like it may be common in the sand village and rightly so.

The full body chidori will be used to counter the Rasenshuriken ???

U think sasuke has too many body parts or something?

You got that the wrong way. Rasenshuriken is what Naruto needs to counter Sasuke's full body chidori.

[Archangel]

I think you're confused Sid

This is the Chidori Nagashi


If Sasuke uses this move to defend himself against the Rasenshuriken we're gonna need another emo antagonist for the show.

[Sidnne]

I think you're confused Sid

This is the Chidori Nagashi


If Sasuke uses this move to defend himself against the Rasenshuriken we're gonna need another emo antagonist for the show.

No, you're confused. I know what Chidori Nagashi is.

You misunderstood my post. I never said Chidori Nagashi would be used to defend against Rasenshuriken. These are both offensive techniques anyway, so he wouldn't be defending against an attack with it.
By "counter" I mean to say the other's converse, not that one would actually be used to negate the other. Although, Naruto did develop it after learning about elemental affinities and discovering that his wind element would be his counter to Sasuke's lightning element.

Its Kishi's symbolic battle between Naruto and Sasuke that has been taking place since the beginning of the series, with the two of them trying out-do or at least match each other.
It began with the tranformation jutsu (at the academy), carried on into chakra control (running up the trees), continued to taijutsu (chuunin examine tournament), and now into the development of jutsus.

You can see it clearly when you look at the origins of the techniques.
First, Sasuke learned Chidori from Kakashi. Naruto then 1-up'd Sasuke with the Rasengan. Both were small, but powerful jutsus, which were contained with one hand and more or less a thrusting technique.

Then the time-jump and the next time Naruto encounters Sasuke, he discovers that Sasuke has a new upgrade to the Chidori, the Chidori Nagashi. Naruto responds by upgrading his Rasengan with the Fuuton Rasengan. Both jutsus were bigger and stronger than the originals with more destructive power, and were only accomplished with the introduction of elemental affinities; lightning vs wind.

Now Sasuke has Kirin, while Naruto is beginning his training with the toads. Kirin, fittingly, is accomplished by Sasuke using the nature energy in the air and atmosphere to produce the massive attack. Which sounds an awful lot like the description of the Sage chakra, wouldn't you say? Therefore it's pretty safe to say that whatever Naruto learns from the sage training will be to keep him on par with Sasuke.

[XanBcoo]

I think Sidnne's got it, but aren't you guys overlooking what will happen when Sasuke gets a hold of the 8 tails?

I know it's impossible to predict exactly what will happen at this point, but is it possible that it will be that "upgrade" which Sasuke will use against Naruto's Sage upgrade?

[Archangel]

?

Sasuke is getting the 8 tails for akatsuki not for himself, at least that's what i think.

I guess he could screw them over but it's unlikely since he needs their power if he wants to attack konoha

[Assertn]

Guys......

I kinda thought it would be obvious ever since the explanation of nature manipulation...
Fire > Wind > Lightning

You do realize the significance of this, right?

Naruto will be able to stop Sasuke's lightning attacks with wind, but Sasuke will be able to stop Naruto's wind attacks with fire. The EXACT reason Kishimoto gave Naruto a wind affinity would be so he could stand up to Sasuke's lightning jutsu...which at the moment appears to be his strong suit.

I guarantee you this paper/rock/scissors correlation will come into play later in the story, no matter how awesome Sasuke's Kirin is.

[Death BOO Z]

Assertn.. if we're on the subject of random energy cycles...

Sasuke has lightning and Fire.
Fire is for Itachi, the crazy, maniac side of the Uchiha.
Lightning is for the 'rational avenger' side of Kakashi.

Naruto's main element is Wind (does he have a 2nd one?)

the wind can defeat the lightning, but it only fuels the fire, pushing him deeper and deeper into the path of itachi.

Naruto and Sasuke can no longer co-exist. Sasuke will never admit that he's equal to Naruto, and the more he is proven otherwise the more he'll seek out reinforcement from outside.

that's just some random nonsense... we need to see less of Sasuke and more of the others...

also, the rock\paper\scissors is simply an excuse for Kishi to turn over the tide of battles and to create more ridiculous powers for each character. he's just being lazy.