Movie: Watchmen

[XanBcoo]

Well, I didn't get The Comedian stuff, other then him being a sadistic bastard with bad humor and knew of some stuff he shouldn't have and got killed for it. Didn't really have any signifcant part to me other then being the girls dad. Maybe I missed stuff, it was 3 hours or something...

I thought The Comedian was a really good character. He wasn't so much sadistic as he was completely amoral. I seem to recall them explaining early on that he was a "parody" of humanity, in that he saw the world for what it was and decided to just sit back and laugh, having a grand old time doing whatever the hell he wanted, because in the end it wouldn't matter. He was killed because he was working for the government, and Nixon asked him to look into Ozymandias' actions and he eventually learned about what was going to happen.

Dr. Manhatten was such an blue emo douche

I was surprised at how douchey Dr. Manhattan came off as well. Douchey from the human perspective, at least. When I went in I only knew a little bit about the characters, so I knew he was "Godlike" and just kind of assumed he would have this very moral quality about him. In reality he just ascended far beyond any human comprehension and had trouble relating to the people he once loved. That's why he left his former girlfriend, because she really was getting old and he couldn't make himself care. Ozymandias' plan made sense to him, but as he said, he neither condemned nor condoned it.

I want to see this movie again. I've also got to borrow the comic from a friend of mine. I'm interested to see what changes were made.

[Ryllharu]

Wait what, how was Night Owl really?

I'll keep this hidden in case anyone wants to read the comic and find out for themselves.

[ Instead of being inwardly horrified at what he knew Manhattan was going to have to do, he was completely aloof to that whole situation and with Laurie (silk spectre II) they agree with Veidt that it will save the world and go off and make out or have sex in an atrium somewhere. Manhattan kills Rorschach, but through the pure logic of the situation.

It makes it come off that for how much friendship and camaraderie that Nite Owl and Rorschach had, even considered each other the closest things to friends they had, Nite Owl doesn't give a shit about anything but Laurie. He just accepts the situation and selfishly is glad that she is alive and his. I don't even think the two of them know about his death until later.

Then they change their identities and that's the end of that. ]

The film ends up really showing what kinds of different heroes there are, and that's why I love the characters.

(My interpretations)

- Manhattan is cold pure logic. Things are either worth doing, or not. As he begins to care less and less, becoming less of a wrathful God and more of a aloof God, he begins to see things only on an even larger scale. Hence, he was quick to agree that Veidt's plan is worth leaving as is for peace.

- The Comedian gives no false pretenses. He likes to kill, he likes to maim, and he'll do whatever it takes to be on the right side. That's why he starts working for the government, to focus that need for carnage. It still means he's doing "good," by perserving his country and what he cherishes about it, but he does have a heart deep down. Mass murder is out the question to him, he likes to keep things face to face, even if he loses control a couple times.

- Nite Owl is just playing hero. He's got all the toys, a secret identity, and he likes it. But he doesn't need it the same way some of the others do. When it all comes down to it, he's a little bit of a coward. Real problems are too much to think about. He can't stick to his principles and it stops being a game. Maybe he even realises that it has been just a game. Deep down, he's a "good" guy, knows where he wants things to be, but he won't go all the way to support those principles, he'll just run away.

- Ozymandias is the pinnacle of genius. He sees something wrong in the world, and vows to fix it. No matter the cost. He borders the line between villain and hero and only remains a "hero" because he does genuinely wants the greater good for humanity. Maybe he does want to lead all of mankind under his thumb, so he remains in the grey area. He accepts the price of everything he's done, but as long as it helps, he'll do it. It's almost a zealous approach to being good, like a knight who murders mauraders, even after they surrender, just in case they might come back to murder a village.

- Laurie (Silk Spectre II) is just in it because she was told to. Maybe she likes it, maybe she's selfish too. Her mother was certainly only in it for the fame. She's more like a hero who wants out. Being forced into a situation, they do their work reluctantly, maybe even start to like it a little. But they still want stability, still want out. Is it a very misogynistic view? Probably.

- Rorschach desribes himself at the end the best. "Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon." He only believes in absolute justice. There is those on his side (or close enough) and there are the scum. Like Comedian, it doesn't matter how he does it, what side of the law he is on, there is a line unerringly drawn in the sand where Rorschach's "Justice" is. Murder is murder and doing that deserves killing. He will step over the line that the law can't in order to serve that law. But unlike Veidt, he will only go so far over that line. Like Comedian, face to face. He always puts himself into the thick of danger. He knows he's not perfect, but he gives everyone a fair shake. Eye for an eye, no pre-emptive strikes.

[Killa-Eyez]

I thought The Comedian was a really good character. He wasn't so much sadistic as he was completely amoral. I seem to recall them explaining early on that he was a "parody" of humanity, in that he saw the world for what it was and decided to just sit back and laugh, having a grand old time doing whatever the hell he wanted, because in the end it wouldn't matter. He was killed because he was working for the government, and Nixon asked him to look into Ozymandias' actions and he eventually learned about what was going to happen.

Yeah, you're right. I guess I'm just bummed he died in the beginning.
Thanks XB for explaining a little, I remember now. You too, Ryllharu.

[itadakimasu]

I didn't read the watchmen books... and I think I really went into the movie w\ my expectations way too high.

I was mostly under-whelmed. I thought the story was pretty slow to develop... the fight scenes were pretty good. The opening of the movie had me pretty pumped, but as the movie went on I just wasn't really satisfied.

I had read a review that maybe they were trying to cram way too much story into the 2-2.5 hour film.

im giving it a 6/10.

plus sides : Don't think i'll see it,but the star trek trailer had me slightly intrigued. Also, very excited about Terminator : Salvation. that 3 minutes had me more excited than any point during watchmen.

[Ryllharu]

You had previews? My IMAX showing just sort of..started. Even The Dark Knight in IMAX had a preview...Watchmen.

All I heard were negative reviews going into the movie, and I was adequately impressed. It was just exactly what I expected. Neither perfect, nor terrible. I went out mostly satisfied. It's not a superhero movie, and it's not an action movie. It is a deconstructionist character study disguised as both an action and superhero title. Well, the novel is anyway.

I was a little bothered by how many reviewers were comparing it to 300. Considering how high-minded, lofty, and elitist most reviewers are about art house films, most of them took an incredibly shallow look at this film.

[lilphatboi88]

I watched this movie the wednesday it came out. UW had a free private screening.

Anyways, loved Dr. Manhattan. I just don't understand how Veidt was so much more superior than everyone else.

I think the producers were at crossroads because 1, if they developed Ozmandias' character, the public can figure out that he killed the Comedian. With that said, who really out there would have been able to take Comedian in a fist to fist combat.

And how was Ozmandias able to block off Dr. Manhattan's "look into the future?"

[Ryllharu]

And how was Ozmandias able to block off Dr. Manhattan's "look into the future?"

"2 Billion Dollars into tachyon research..." - Veidt.

Manhattan mentioned to Laurie that tachyons (being particles that travel backward in time...) would interfere with his universal look at what we childishly call time, his words, because they are going in the opposite direction...blah blah blah. Laurie cut him off around this point.

Just like in Star Trek with the deflector dish, tachyons can do anything.

[Pandadice]

well, i saw this movie today.

I was simply amazed by it. it was such a great and entertaining movie. I haven't read the graphic novel.

I had only heard good things about it before i watched it, but I was anticipating pretty much a cliche superhero movie. I was expecting it to be like Fantastic 4 or something, and I was even worried that I had only had 4 hours of sleep before going and seeing it.

but no, it definitely was nothing like your generic superhero movie.. this was on a completely different level. well worth watching. and even though I had such little sleep I didn't even get tired at all during it.

Though the movie was like 2.5 hours, I hardly noticed, and I definitely didn't care. it was captivating throughout the entire thing, and I never thought "when is this gonna be over?" once during it. (which I actually did with Dark Knight about 3 times before it really ended...)

It had such awesome music too. Though I'll never watch Shrek with Alleluia the same way again.

[Assertn]

Dr. Manhatten was such an blue emo douche.

You're a blue emo douche.
Dr. Manhattan's philosophical explorations were my favorite parts of the movie.

Edit: Also, Dr. Manhattan's the man. The last things he does in the movie is blows up Night Owl's friend, makes out with Night Owl's girl, then goes off to a distant galaxy to create new life. Badass.

[Killa-Eyez]

You're a blue emo douche.
Dr. Manhattan's philosophical explorations were my favorite parts of the movie.

Edit: Also, Dr. Manhattan's the man. The last things he does in the movie is blows up Night Owl's friend, makes out with Night Owl's girl, then goes off to a distant galaxy to create new life. Badass.

Maybe his actions were badass, but the way he presented himself made him look like a 14 y/o with daddy issues. Come on, people gettin' cancer? Where's his reasoning? Boohoo, I can't stimulate you, boohoo. And his voice, my god! The guy's got creepy written all over himself. I think the comedian was more badass then he'll ever be. And what was with the frontal nudity? Sorry, but he is a blue emo douche.

Edit: My fav. is Rorschach. Now he's badass!

[Ryllharu]

Come on, people gettin' cancer? Where's his reasoning?

I think you might have missed the point on this one. People getting cancer from being near or even associating with Manhattan was a huge commentary on super powers in general. The idea that superheroes should and probably do always have the lingering thought that their powers might inadvertently hurt those they love or even those they save.

Might Superman get distracted and crush the people he saves with his strength? Did the Goblin really kill her by throwing her off or did Spiderman snap Gwen Stacy's neck when he caught her with a web? Is there a possibility that the Human Torch might burn an apartment or girlfriend to ashes while having a nightmare?

If the powers are something like radioactivity, then the fear is only greater because of the lack of obvious effects until it is too late. This is kind of material usually used in origin stories about supervillains who lash out in their grief.

[Killa-Eyez]

I see yours. But my point is, that he simply believed it like that, without further investigating it, being a scientist and all. And after seeing his ex like that he almost immediately moved to mars. Running away from our problems, aye? Sorry, he gets no respect. He's still a blue emo douche.

[fahoumh]

I finally watched it on Saturday and I couldn't help but compare the movie to the book the entire way through. I left a little disappointed, to be honest...especially how they changed Veidt's "master plan". Snyder's directorial style didn't really fit Moore's writing style, IMO. Still though, I realize that the movie would have been at least 5 hours if they wanted to fit everything in and it was probably the best he could have done given the restrictions of the medium.

[Assertn]

Maybe his actions were badass, but the way he presented himself made him look like a 14 y/o with daddy issues. Come on, people gettin' cancer? Where's his reasoning? Boohoo, I can't stimulate you, boohoo. And his voice, my god! The guy's got creepy written all over himself. I think the comedian was more badass then he'll ever be. And what was with the frontal nudity? Sorry, but he is a blue emo douche

Dude, are you that guy that just throws the word emo around without even knowing what it means? How could someone detached from human emotion be an emo? Seriously?

[Killa-Eyez]

Dude, are you that guy that just throws the word emo around without even knowing what it means? How could someone detached from human emotion be an emo? Seriously?

Not knowing how to please the bitch, running scared to mars cause his ex got cancer, while on mars getting somehow convinced that miracles do exist, hesitating to kill Rorschach... He is either the one, or the other. To me it all seemed like a front, so yeah, he's an emo douche. Full of his self saying he's detached and all, but doing the other. His so-called logic didn't seem logical to me. But whateva, this is kinda ruining the thread so let's agree to disagree.

[XanBcoo]

Not knowing how to please the bitch

I watched the movie assuming that Dr. Manhattan wasn't necessarily detached from human emotion, but rather was in the process of that detachment. In his heart he still wanted to make Laurie happy, but only because he knew it was a good thing to do, and not because he truly cared about her. Perhaps the movie missed that dynamic.

He still held on to pieces of his old life, which is why he might have felt saddened by killing Rorshach, but in the end humans meant nothing more to him than termites did, so he buggered off to Mars/other galaxies.

[Stitch]

I said from the beginning that this movie would suck.

I just didn't anticipate how much it would suck.

I'm still a prophet regardless.

[itadakimasu]

I just think the way it was marketed, if you've never heard of watchmen you're like... cool, looks like this is going to be an epic movie..

I don't think I've seen a good movie yet this year. still patiently waiting for Terminator to dazzle me or fail me horribly.

[Dark Dragon]

I said from the beginning that this movie would suck.

I just didn't anticipate how much it would suck.

I'm still a prophet regardless.

You seem to be the only person in this thread who think this movie "suck". If you're going to make a statement like that, elaborate on why you didn't like it instead of making your opinion sound like facts.

I personally don't think it's as brilliant as some people are making it out to be, but it's certainly a step up from the usual Hollywood tripe.


@Ryllharu

It's rather interesting to see how our view of the characters differ.I came away with the impression that all of the main superhero except Rorschach are either naive or pretentious.

Dr. Manhattan: The image i got from him is "A wimp who suddenly obtain an immense amount of power". I really think that he believe himself to be god deep down. He started to believe that he is superior to human beings and that is why he started to care less and less. The comedian pointed out best that he truly doesn't give a shit about all of these creature that he view as beneath him. There are many things that he is capable of doing but is simply content with viewing the world through a veil of logic while enjoying his god status.

The Comedian: I found it funny that the term "true face of humanity" was used and how he chose to become a parody of it. It's almost that he was oblivious to the fact that human can be both good and evil. He chose to view only the negative and then claim that is the "true face" of all human. He give the impression of a douche who doesn't have a very strong moral and used "the world is evil" as an excuse for his actions. I do agree that he probably has a heart or some shred of conscience deep down that prevent him from going with Ozymandias plans.

Ozymandias: The smartest man in the world, and he knows it. His attempt to fool Dr. Manhattan almost seem like an attempt to show his genius. He certainly seem to fit the role of a puppeteer to enjoy seeing the puppets follows his whims. His desire to help the world certainly doesn't seem like a facade but that is not always certain.

Night Owl: Your typical follower who is incapable of doing anything by himself. He is obviously head over heel for Laurie, but piss his pants at the thought of Dr. Manhattan wrath, yet he also wasn't strong enough to resist her when she came onto him. Every action he takes was initiated by someone else (Laurie, Rorschach).

Silk Spectre: She seem rather insecure, probably due to the strain relationship with her mother and the less than stellar childhood. She seem like the type of person who couldn't stand being alone and needs some sort of support. In this manner, i suppose Night Owl and her are perfect for each other.

Rorschach: I pretty much agree with every point you've made about him. His attitude is "The justice of the world is not my justice" and proceed as necessary despite any harm that might befall him. Out of all of the "Heroes" in this movie he probably come closest to the idea of a genuine superhero ideal of self sacrifice and do what is right despite all odds.

[Ryllharu]

While I may disagree on a few points, those are good, valid interpretations.

This is what I like about novels, films, comics, or short stories where a lot of the final characterization is determined by the interpretations of the audience on an individual basis. It's how I usually consider something a "great" work if this sort of thing shows up. Given the exact same material, two people come off with completely different descriptions of what kind of character someone is.

The film wasn't perfect, but this part of it was carried over from the graphic novel very well.

The more I think about it and from what you said, the more I like the casting for Ozymandias. He was the perfect pretentious asshole genius. From the way Matthew Goode held his posture to the he spoke oozed pretentiousness.