What the heck are you talking about? Those are the only arguments I'd need to convince me in this mangaOriginally Posted by Uchiha Barles
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Yeah, I never meant to bring Gaara into it and imply that he was the weakest, just that he was obviously weaker than the Kyuubi. All it took to beat him was to give the Jinchuriki a whack on the head.
Last edited by XanBcoo; Sat, 07-12-2008 at 01:58 AM.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
I thought mythology said they were equally strong, just that 9th had infinite energy, tipping the scale to his favor after like thousand years of battle.. or something like that >_>
Yes, yes that is how the story goes. The epic battle between the two was a stalemate for 1000 years or something like that and although the eight tails power rivals the Kyuubi in quality, the Kyuubi has a limitless supply of chakra so he eventually won. Some nonsense like that
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Replace "supply of chakra" with "supply of FRIENDSHIP" and you've basically got a probable outcome for the final Naruto/Sasuke fight.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
i understand how seigetsu and jugo wheere able to enter akatsuki but how in the world did the girl get in shes probably the same as sakura....
I don't. I don't think any of them is good enough to join the group for any mission Madara gives them or match any of the akatsuki's skills. They're all just little brat kids. Sasuke isn't even strong enough to join in my opinion. Yes he beat his brother, but that was at his limit busting out new moves at random. So don't pull the whole EMS, he beat his brother, wtf are you talking about docdan crap on me. Because I know what I'm saying.
About the bijuu and their hosts. Yeah for the last time. I'll only explain this once to read it well and carefully. The reason I started this whole firestorm of posting lately about the 8 tials being stronger is because he is. Naruto isn't stronger because he's like a giant lake. Not a lake, a giant deep lake. But a lake with no ripples and no waves at all. Very calm. This new 8 tails is like the same lake, but with a series of fire hoses ready to go at any time, and at his own controlled will. So, lets do some math.
If every bijuu gets stronger as tails get added (from Gaara to Naruto), then by definition naruto should be the strongest one with out question, right? Wrong.
1. Naruto can't control anything that Kyuubi gives him
2. Is wild and crazy when even 3 tails are grown
3. young and inexperienced on how to even begin to have a master slave/best friends relationship with his bijuu.
4. because of reason 3, doesn't have the ability to tap 100% of the potential that the 8 tails obviously has. With out the ability and power to control his bijuu, he's just a well of power and Kyuubis bitch. Until then, thats all Naruto is.
5. Because of reason 4, and the rule that every bijuu gets stronger as the tail count goes up, doing the math, right now, the 8 tails is the strongest one.
Thats all I can come up right now. Thats the best I can explain it.
We don't know this for sure. I only brought it up as a possibility. It's never actually been stated that the tailed beasts with more tails are stronger, and the mythology doesn't confirm this either. We know that the 8 tails is likely very strong, but he will eventually be beaten by Sasuke, so it probably doesn't even matter. The power of the other tailed beasts doesn't even factor into this now.
The rest of what you said is pretty self-explanatory for anyone who's been keeping up.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
Actually I think it's been said many times that as more tails get added, the capacity of chakra and power goes up exponentially with each tail. So I think that can be laid to rest soon after Sasuke and team hawk meet the 8 tails. And then again when the rest of the akatsuki invade Konoha for the 9 tails and Naruto.
I don't have beef with people liking the new team hawk. But why does everyone thing that the kids in the series are getting stronger? They're really not. The only one that has gotten a little stronger was Shikamaru and that was because he was a genius at strategy. Juugo hasn't shown anything. No one from team konoha has shown much growth yet (if Kishi has it planned) Sakura is maybe a kick ass medic that's all and a physical fighter. And about Sasuke, I'm going to settle thing once and for all.
He's strong because his brother and Orochiumaru made him that way. Yes he was the all star rookie when he graduated, but that doesn't mean shit now. 80% of what he has came from those two men training him. And don't pull the "so what if they trained him, now he's stronger because of it" bullshit on me. Yes he has EMS now and yes he's part of the akatsuki, but he can't compare to someone like Kisame, Madara, Pein or Konan. Most seem to think that he's the one to be the next god because of his eyes (once again that his brother gave him) One top of all that. People think that he's jounin level and that he's the level of Kakashi or other jounins in other countries. That fucked up right there. You all need to stop and take a look around. He just got back from training with Orochimaru and Kishi is already having him take orders from Madara on getting some bijuu for him.
I don't know. Yeah the kid is strong but you guys are way over playing his power and skill level. By massive levels and over statements. Most of what he's done now hasn't been very strong or impressive in my book. Here some impressive things to me
1. Kakashi ripping off Diedaras arm with his sharingan
2. The 2nd and Kisame making lakes from just clapping their hands together
3. Gaara fighting in the sky with Diedara and tracking him down with his sand
4. The 3rd being able to keep up with Orochimaru during the fight even in his old age
5. Diedara being able to keep up with Gaara and also being able to create animals from just clay as well as giving them the ability to blow up
6. the old man 4th jinchuriki being able to create lots of elemental fusions
7. Kakashi keeping up with Itachi when he and Kisame visited the first and knowing they were at the bar talking earlier (now that's a man who could be called jounin at age 9 in my opinion
8. 4th sealing the 9 tails in his son
9. the 1st being able to control (repress whatever the fuck you want to call it) the bijuu with out the use of the Sharingan at his disposal.
10. the 1st also being able to summon and make 3 different types of jutsus. Earth water and from them, wood
11. Madara (and yes I know Sasuke probably has this ability now too) being able to command and control the Uchiha members during the Senju and Uchiha wars like they were his soldiers.
12. anyone who the village ninjas think is Kage material (except Tsunade, I'll never get how that happened. Or why they wanted Jiraiya)
13. the 4ths flash step move
Those are some of the things I actually tihnk are worth getting frothy over. The things that you people think are impressive aren't really that impressive at all.
Last edited by docdan63; Sat, 07-12-2008 at 04:31 PM.
Sasuke deal:
I'm probably one of the bigger Sasuke-haters, but I stilll think he's strong, and not just because of the plot-holes.
he was always exceptional, even as a genin, the bizzare powers he keeps getting can't change the fact, that he is a better ninja than anyone else around. he just makes a shitty person, and that's why he is going to lose.
1. You mean Kakashi throwing out a MSharingan from his ass with no reason (still no reason, a year after it happened), and his MSharingan is time\space cannon? that's no badass, that's retarded.
5. Gaara's sand wasn't so fast, it was a bit faster than Lee, and even considering improvement over these three years, the sand can't be properly relayed upon as a homing weapon.
8. That's hardly badass, that's bad parenting (remind me, does Naruto know of his origins yet?)
9. What's the difference between using one bloodline (uchiha bloodline) to supress the demons and using another bloodline (sengou bloodline)? the 1st also had a 'gift' to control them.
10. every jounin can use two elements, and combinning them comes natrually to bloodline ninja. is every jounin a badass in your book?
11. The uchihas don't seem to be so smart, the evidence supports this (two out of three uchihas are braindead idiots)
12. what? can you explain it? and what is(was) wrong with Jiraya?
13. Vegita said it better in DBZ 109 - "it's only hyper speed". so he's fast, and leaves an after-image, if that's enough to be an hokage, then I'm fit to be the supreme commander of the leaf navy.
Sasuke defeated Deidara... that makes him akatsuki level imo, not the STRONGEST members maybe, but definitively akatsuki level,
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
There is so much that can be said but I'll try not to make this too long...hahaha
That only applies to Naruto because the number of tails he is able to access represents how much of the Kyuubi's power he is using, you can't apply that to anything other than Naruto. Secondly how is anything going to be laid to rest after we see the eight tails fight. Even if he is extremely powerful we haven't seen any of the other bijuu fight so we have nothing to compare it to. Naruto can't control the Kyuubi you said so yourself and we can't judge what shukaku's level of chakra is because we didn't really get to see him in action, Naruto woke Gaara up and that dispelled the jutsu that didn't defeat shukaku it merely dispelled the jutsu. We have no idea what else he has.
Wait I don't get this, so you don't think Sasuke is strong because Oro and Itachi made him that way and you completely disregard his EMS because Itachi gave it to him, yet you still say Kakashi is some great ninja. Wait wasn't kakashi trained by his father, who was on the same level as the sannin, since birth and then after his father died he was trained by the fourth. Come to think of it wasn't Kakashi given Obito's sharingan, I mean atleast with Sasuke we can say that its his own bloodline limit.He's strong because his brother and Orochiumaru made him that way. Yes he was the all star rookie when he graduated, but that doesn't mean shit now. 80% of what he has came from those two men training him. And don't pull the "so what if they trained him, now he's stronger because of it" bullshit on me. Yes he has EMS now and yes he's part of the akatsuki, but he can't compare to someone like Kisame, Madara, Pein or Konan. Most seem to think that he's the one to be the next god because of his eyes (once again that his brother gave him) One top of all that. People think that he's jounin level and that he's the level of Kakashi or other jounins in other countries. That fucked up right there. You all need to stop and take a look around. He just got back from training with Orochimaru and Kishi is already having him take orders from Madara on getting some bijuu for him.
1. Lemme see this, EMS>MS right but you don't think Sasuke is stronger than kakashi. Kakashi ripped off Deidara's arm but Sasuke forced him to blow himself up yet Kakashi is still stronger than Sasuke.1. Kakashi ripping off Diedaras arm with his sharingan
2. The 2nd and Kisame making lakes from just clapping their hands together
3. Gaara fighting in the sky with Diedara and tracking him down with his sand
4. The 3rd being able to keep up with Orochimaru during the fight even in his old age
5. Diedara being able to keep up with Gaara and also being able to create animals from just clay as well as giving them the ability to blow up
6. the old man 4th jinchuriki being able to create lots of elemental fusions
7. Kakashi keeping up with Itachi when he and Kisame visited the first and knowing they were at the bar talking earlier (now that's a man who could be called jounin at age 9 in my opinion
8. 4th sealing the 9 tails in his son
9. the 1st being able to control (repress whatever the fuck you want to call it) the bijuu with out the use of the Sharingan at his disposal.
10. the 1st also being able to summon and make 3 different types of jutsus. Earth water and from them, wood
11. Madara (and yes I know Sasuke probably has this ability now too) being able to command and control the Uchiha members during the Senju and Uchiha wars like they were his soldiers.
12. anyone who the village ninjas think is Kage material (except Tsunade, I'll never get how that happened. Or why they wanted Jiraiya)
13. the 4ths flash step move
2. What the hell does water jutsu have to do with anything, Sasuke can make freaking lightning bolts fall from the sky and you're talking about water jutsu.
3. Deidara beat Gaara, Sasuke beat Deidara and the big deal here is tracking him down with his sand, did you not see any of the things sasuke did to deidara during that battle. What the X ray vision, seeing chakra, genjutsu, and deactivating his bombs doesn't beat tracking him down with sand.
4. So Sasuke owning Oro didn't mean anything or the fact that Sasuke was able to go toe to toe with Itachi the man who run Oro out of Akatsuki.
5.Sasuke beat Deidara and Deidara didn't even pull half the stuff on Gaara that he did on Sasuke.
6. Where is your point here, him being able to mix elements was as a result of the abilities his bijuu gave him and you didn't even see any of that happen so why are you talking about it.
7. This one is a good one. So all that fighting and high speed taijutsu Sasuke and Itachi did in the beginning of their fight meant nothing nor does the fact that Sasuke completely defeated Itachi's Tsukiyomi something Kakashi wasn't even able to do. How does knowing they were at the bar even mean anything. All three noticed the two suspicious guys in black robes you'd have to be an idiot not to, and he didn't even know who they were which is why he just made Asuma and Kurenai tail them. Anyway did I mention that Kakashi lost to Tsukiyomi and he would have probably been taken by Itachi if Gai hadn't shown up because that is big. What is with this keeping up thing anyway if I remember correctly Kakashi was struggling just to follow Itachi's movements and he was on the defensive for that entire battle he didn't even get an attempt at offense.
8. Wait, what.
9. What does without the use of the sharingan have to do with anything. The sharingan is a kekkai genkai, the first had a kekkai genkai that gave him that ability what difference does it make and what does being able to control the bijuu have to do with the first's actual strength.
10. Again Kekkai Genkai.
11. WTF. They were his soldiers, he was the leader of the Uchiha clan just as the first was the leader of the Senju clan
12. This doesn't make any god damn sense. You say anyone that the village thinks is Kage material but then you exclude the current hokage. How does being Kage material mean anything anyway everyone in the village thinks Naruto is kage material but yet Sasuke is leagues ahead of Naruto which is why Naruto was always training to catch up to him. By the way Asuma mentioned that he thought shikamaru was kage material, you're not going to tell me that based on that you think Shikamaru is stronger than Sasuke.
13. Flashsteps didn't help his ass against the Kyuubi now did it.
Anyway since people tend to confuse things I'll just say that this isn't a personal attack or anything. I wanted to say that I disagree with what you said and I don't see what you're basing any of this on. I don't see how you can say you don't consider Sasuke to be Akatsuki level when he already defeated two akatsuki members, you can question whether it was a true defeat or not if you want but fact is he beat two of them(three if you count Oro). Plus the fact that Sasuke is in akatsuki pretty much answers the question of whether he is on their level or not. I think you just need to think a little bit more before you post, your long posts in the One Piece forum are a fun read, here not so much.
Last edited by Abdula; Sat, 07-12-2008 at 06:57 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I've got to side with Abdula on this topic. Sasuke is indeed akatsuki level at this point. He has always been good at what he does, and his work ethic rivals everyone else in Konoha. After absorbing Oro he indeed became stronger, and now on top of that, he was given the EMS by Itachi. He's strong period, hense I think he deserves his place in Akatsuki regardless of killing Diedara or not.
Regarding the 8tails, ofcourse he's going to be strong. All bijuus are strong. By all respects you can speculate that he is going to be one of the toughest for Akasuki to capture because 1. Hes one of only two left. 2. Sasuke gets to fight him, and we know how much Kishi loves him. 3. Has to be strong to make for a good continuing story. None of this however automatically implys that hes the strongest however, only that he's strong enough to make for a good story, or at least we can hope. We know he'll be strong because he already has hype from the other cloud biiju, but everything is still based on how Kishi lets the story play out.
Now as for Naruto receiving the Sage frog's training... Good, I'm glad hes getting more training. Hopefully the Sage can teach Naruto more control. Hell Naruto has still only been able to create his Rasengan one handed once in the fight with Sasuke. Naruto's problem has always been that he doesn't properly know how to use his power, not that it doesn't exist. So I'll be hoping and praying for him to learn control, and maybe a couple of Sage jutsu's as well. He can't rely on KB's and rasengan's forever... Maybe his master's death will serious him up a bit.
Finally, as for the flashback of the Sage Frog, I could definately see him holding onto a possible explanation, or information to further develope Naruto durring his training. We know how Naruto just doesn't get it sometimes. This could be what's used to refocus him to finalize the Sage training or something. Again, all speculation...
Yeah yeah jumping on my bandwagon
Anyway as for the toad sage, I think he might be insulted if you called him a frog. I'm really not going to make much out of his flashback. His flashback as you can see here is just what Jiraiya thought at the time. If you remember the battle correctly Jiraiya actually thought that the body he killed was the real Nagato, you can get that much from the flashback, it was when he saw the scar that he realized he was a ninja that he had already fought. It was after that and a few more flashbacks that Jiraiya figured out what Pain's secret was, a secret according to Pain that would have lead to his defeat.
Anyway Pain immediately slashed Jiraiya's throat so he wasn't able to talk, which is why Jiraiya needed to write a coded message in the first place. Its 381 if anyone's interested. So whatever it is Jiraiya figured out he wasn't able to tell Fukasaku (toad sage) so I don't think he actually knows anything, although he may have a few theories but nothing concrete and like he said Jiraiya's message was too vague, so even though they may know "the real one isn't there" there is nothing they can do with that message alone. Like Xan said before, I think when the autopsy is finished and they get whatever info they can from the body and then Pain actually shows up, they'll put everything together and have a shonen bright idea and figure out how to defeat Pain.
Anyway since this topic seems to be finished lets see if we can move on to something else, specifically the hidden cloud village. According to Madara, after the great war or whatever Hashirama decided to give out the bijuu as a show of faith to the other villages or some nonsense like that, so how did one village end up with two. Secondly whats wrong with these people, they knew Akatsuki was going after the bijuu, they would have of course known that Akatsuki attacked the sand village and took the Kazekage so why weren't they prepared. If there were two of them in the village and not only were they both in the village but perhaps the village's top two ninjas why wouldn't they stick together. Did they just think Akatsuki wasn't going to get to them or was it just bone headed over confidence in their abilities.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I'm not gonna respond to docdan63 since everyone else did a pretty good job. Also he seems tetchy. I just don't understand why he thinks being trained by someone else doesn't make you strong
Yeah, it could be that Fukusaku is holding back information, or he's still putting it together in his mind, or perhaps Binktopia's translation is very liberal and the code is a lot more confusing than we think. Whatever the case, I do believe it will happen as described.
I guess 80 years is enough time for anything to happen. The land of Clouds village could have taken the 8 tails for themselves after killing the original owner perhaps??
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
from easy to hard.
5 ninja countries (five ninja villages) 9 demons.
which means that the leaf got the strongest demon and the rest of the villiages have gotten two demons each (probably, we don't know exactly)
edit: and as Xanbo suggested, the cloud could have stolen one of them, weren't they the ones who tried to get the hyuuga eyes?
the Jinckurichi, like the super-strong egg-heads they really are, are confident in their abilities to kickass (we really should have seen a decent demon.vs.akatsuki fight already), and weren't exactly expecting an attack at the scale of the akatsuki (though, considering everything, akatsuki's are kind of a letdown... like the sound four). and even if they did know, do you really expect them to stay together all the time? the leaf can hardly make Naruto stay in one place, and he isn't even good for anything else.
No, No, No he didn't only give Bijuu to the five main villages.
True but I would think a village as over ambitious as the cloud would have made some ripples if they had two bijuu.edit: and as Xanbo suggested, the cloud could have stolen one of them, weren't they the ones who tried to get the hyuuga eyes?
Well yeah I see your point. Still something just seems off with this village.the Jinckurichi, like the super-strong egg-heads they really are, are confident in their abilities to kickass (we really should have seen a decent demon.vs.akatsuki fight already), and weren't exactly expecting an attack at the scale of the akatsuki (though, considering everything, akatsuki's are kind of a letdown... like the sound four). and even if they did know, do you really expect them to stay together all the time?
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Uhm, i must be out of the loop or something, cause when exactly did sasuke get ems? I seem to oddly remember sasuke refusing the eyes.
Ha! So Sasuke is now in Akatsuki cloting eh? He is a regular mini-Itachi, even has his own little Kisame and everything.
Very good chapter, and I like the fact that Naruto is finally going to train with the toads.
As for everyone thinking Pein will come to Konoha and kill Tsunade, I think that’s off base. What I think will happen is that Pein and Konan will indeed come to the village in search of Naruto, and end up getting in a big battle, with some big losses on both sides. Konan will probably be hurt pretty badly/killed, and Pein may lose a couple of more bodies. The Leaf will lose a lot of ninja, and their hokage, but she won’t be killed. I think Pein will cut his losses, realizing that attacking the Leaf head on may not be the best strategy and incapacitates, then takes Tsunade in hopes that Naruto will now come to him.
This will open the door for Danzo, who everyone seems to be forgetting at the moment. He will use this oppurtunity to sway the majority of Konoha to his side and declare himself in charge of all Konoha affairs (although he probably will not be considered “Hokage” in the eys of the village, or maybe a faction of loyalists). He will convince, forcibily perhaps, everyone that Tsunade is dead, or Akatsuki has set up a trap and will not allow a rescue attempt. Konoha will effectivly be under martial law, under the thumb of Danzo and his military, Root.
This of course, will pave the way for Naruto’s return/revolution. He will return from his training stronger, faster and yes, smarter. After being briefed from his comrades of course Naruto will not stand for everyone not doing anything regarding Tsunade’s abduction. He will strike a fire in the hearts of a few of the new generation (I am thinking Neji, Lee, Shikamaru, Shino Sakura, possibly Kakashi and few others) to rebel and rescue Tsunade.
With all this talk about generations i can't help to think that none of the sannins are gonna get out of this alive, being replaced by their disciples in the end of the story. just a theory of mine ofc.
The sannins are dropping like flies, Tsunade is the hokage and the only one left and Pain probably the strongest villain in the series at this point is about to go to the village, not to mention that Sasuke, Kishi's boy toy, has declared that he will kill the leaders of the village plus there is still Madara who wants his revenge against the Sengu and the only thing that was preventing him from getting it, Itachi, is gone and it just so happens that Tsunade is not only a Sengu but a direct descendant of the man who is the root of Madara's hatred but yeah its just a theory of yours right. Talk about stating the obvious, if Tsunade survives to the end of the series that'll be an even bigger surprise than Kakashi busting out MS.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
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