Couldn't it be both. Based on everything, I think it indeed was a summon just not a normal one. It is most definitely a manifestation of chakra and from what I saw I think Itachi had it sealed within his eyes, but it had to have existed as an actual being in the real world at some point since Oro was searching for it.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I think he was "searching" (in the sense of "researching") for it after only having heard of it, and wasn't able to simply because it's only a technique the Sharigan can control.
I don't see why it had to exist in the real world at all.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
How the hell would he have heard of it if no one in Akatsuki including him knew Itachi had that technique. If Itachi kept it a secret for all those years how would Oro have found out about it even Zetsu didn't know about the technique.
Beyond that its implied that Oro was searching for that sword long before Itachi even showed up, that could never be if the sword was merely just one of the sharingans techniques.. Read one and two and tell me what you think.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I don't know how you missed Zetsu saying "a sword with no real physical form," but that seems to answer part of your question. It only exists in the "spirit realm". It could possibly be accessed by means other than the Sharingan, but that's all we've seen so far, and probably all we ever will.
Just because it exists in another realm doesn't mean Oro and Zetsu couldn't have any knowledge of it. Orochimaru dove very heavily into the occult in his past, so it's not weird to assume he knows about something like that. As you said before, there are countless other techniques that would have required prior knowledge before their use, but all that was ignored. I'm not going to do anything else besides accept this at face value.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
Lol, I think we both got confused. I didn't miss that, what I mean is the sword had to have existed before Itachi got the technique, spirit sword or not. I thought you were saying that the sword was essentially Itachi's own creation which is why I said how would Oro have heard of it if they didn't even know Itachi had that technique. What I meant is that Oro couldn't find the sword because wherever it was Itachi had gotten to it first, which is why Oro couldn't find it.
Anyway again we strayed from what I actually want to discuss which is how could Itachi suddenly have gotten it after killing his best friend because from the way he talks about it here its like bam I kill my best friend and I become a god, thats some Berserk stuff right there. Kishi doesn't make it seem like he had to do anything at all to master the techniques or get Susano'o, his best friend dies and Itachi gets all powerful jutsus, now thats some Inuyasha crap.
Anyway I'm done manufacturing discussion for today.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
About fucking time xDOriginally Posted by Abdula
When are you guys gonna learn that no good can come from overthinking when it comes to Naruto? Just embrace the fact that Kishimoto is the most random SoB on the face of the earth and be done with it.
You are so predictable, but I can't help but throw a dog a bone. Anyway we don't need to learn anything and we're not over thinking anything. This was a lame chapter and there was nothing being discussed so like I normally do, I decided to manufacture some discussion. Btw Kishi isn't that bad at all, if you want random check out Inuyasha or Gantz.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I had just assumed that people in the Narutoverse knew of its existence but didn't know how to access it. Mangekyou Sharingan was the key to unlocking it that no one had previously known about.
Then when Itachi starts using it with Mangekyou, Oro's all "Ohhh, so that's how to get it!"
That was my first assumption at least. Also I guess this means that Madara/Obito/Tobi can use it as well.
I certainly won't fault you for that...This was a lame chapter and there was nothing being discussed so like I normally do, I decided to manufacture some discussion.
Last edited by XanBcoo; Sun, 07-06-2008 at 02:35 PM.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
Many of us weren't surprised about the existence of a 3rd MS jutsu.
Susanoo is part of the same mythologies as Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, so we pretty much knew the name ahead of time as well.
We also suspected that, since Amaterasu is ninjutsu, and Tsukuyomi is genjutsu, that Susanoo would be taijutsu...which....I suppose it sorta is...
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Hey hey, not everyone believed it was taijutsu. There were a few who believed it was a summoning, I should know I was one of them. In a sense I guess both groups were right.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
That's exactly why I feel Naruto to be the best suited. He probably has the best chance at separating Pein's bodies. If its 1v1, then all of Pein's bodies can be focus on that one person and be in the same area without really having to be too concerned with multiple angles of attack.
With 1,000 clones, Naruto can lure the bodies away from one another and also attack from multiple angles. I'm not saying Naruto is smart enough to do that, but if he were a more intelligent Ninja, then with his abilities he is the best suited.
With my statement about not having to have their real bodies in the battle, I'm hoping Naruto will fight Pein's bodies with his clones, while he seeks out the real Pein with his own real body. Not saying that's going to happen either, just saying the potential is there.
so, the entire code was based on the fact that Jiraya can't write a decent T?
we still need to see what payne's group makes of this code (if the msg was coded, then it's safe to assume it fell to the hands of the enemy), maybe they get a different msg, maybe payne also knows Jiraya's T and knows that the leaf know his secret.
new body - the eyes looked sort of like Kurenei's eyes, didn't they? I think that the entire scene was done to show us that Payne is still kicking at large, and wasn't damaged by the fight with Jiraya. hence, who ever gets to kill him has to outbest Jiraya and beat Payne's perfect six bodies.
I wish it was really Jiraya, then Naruto would have a reson to go 3-tails and then say "the real jiraya wasn't so weak! " a-la- Gon style.
Msg - maybe we are looking at this the wrong way? maybe he's telling Naruto that Payne is actually a good guy being manipulated by the baddies? maybe 'the real one isn't with them' refers to the 'true' payne student, who is locked away in the tower of doom while Qunan is abusing his powers?
But that's why they are invading Konoha right now. It's because they don't know what the code is, except that it could lead to the discovery of the real Pain or where he is.
I really don't see what the damn point of Jiraiya leaving that message was. "The real one isn't there" how the hell does that help them. They don't know where the real one is so knowing the real one isn't there isn't going to help them any because they still have to defeat those six.
@Sidnne except for the fact that Naruto's clones don't mean anything, punching and/or kicking Pain's bodies a bunch of times isn't going to make one damn bit of difference and at best Naruto can only use Wind rasengan three times and we don't even know if that jutsu is going to be able to put Pain down, if he even manages to hit him. Secondly I think you must think that Pain is a moron, because he already knows about Naruto's rasengan and his shadow clones so why the hell would he waste his time going after shadow clones when he knows all he has to do is get the real one. Plus you're thinking that Naruto's shadow clones, themselves are something to be feared which is just plain untrue.
His clones are even more inept that he is and the only threat they pose is the wind rasengan and due to the its size and the noise its makes it would be impossible not to notice it and unlike that BS kishi pulled on Kakuzu he can't simply just distract him with clones and then attack from behind because there are six bodies who can see from each others viewpoints, they are going to be watching each others backs so there is no way they would miss something like that.
Bottom line is Pain is superior to Naruto, even if Naruto's abilities give him a better chance at beating Pain than anyone else simply have better odds is not going to be enough and Naruto's stupidity negates whatever advantage his Naruto abilities give him and his genin tactics aren't going to work on someone Jiraiya couldn't beat. For all Naruto's ability he has always struggled in battle and that was just against one opponent. Not only will he be fighting six different opponents at once when he fights Pain but its safe to assume that Pain is stronger than anyone else Naruto has faced thus far. At this point, by himself Naruto just doesn't stand a chance.
@DBZ, this is the third time I've noticed you doing it and if you do it one more time I'm going to smack you upside the head. Stop comparing Naruto to Gon!
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I agree that Pain is the strongest enemy that Naruto has ever faced so far but the thing is all he has to do is find the real body and get a lucky shot with wind rasengan. it sucks but it's probably what's gonna happen...
You make it sound like thats easy. For starters the real body doesn't even travel with the others so how would he find him. Nagato has probably sealed himself away somewhere like he had those bodies locked away when we were first introduced to Pain. Finding him is going to be extremely difficult and even if they do figure out where he is, he is a master of sealing jutsus so getting to him without him letting you do it would be close to impossible. Finally there is this, Jiraiya said that Nagato was a genius and mastered all six elements at age 10, so I would say that the real Nagato is stronger than all of his other bodies, plus he still has the rinnegan and we still don't know jack about what that can do.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Yeah, I'm also a little confused as to how Jiraiya's message will help Konoha.
In the next chapter, Fukusaku will tell them about the fight with Pain and they'll figure out that the six bodies are indeed puppets, but where do they go from there? Does anyone besides Jiraiya actually know about Nagato? Even if they did, will Jiraiya's code help them figure out where he is?
I really hope there's more to this.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
We'll probably have about 6 months worth of chapters now that show Sasuke's team's fight with the 8-tails. Personally I think it'll be a loooong time before any more Pein let alone an actual attack on Konoha, maybe even the new year.
Then again, I might be wrong.
I think I know precisely what I mean
when I say it's a schpadoinkle day
I still believe Peins fighting tactics are a total set up for a large scale team/cooperative battle which will "teach" us to appreciate our friends and to prove that you need your loved ones etc yadda yadda, it just isn't viable for one person (especially naruto) to beat him.
Which is why I fear a Naruto and Sasuke reunion coming up sooner or later... possibly with sasuke having his own x-tails.
Respect the joindate, not the postcount ;P
No, but if i asked u a couple months ago if Naruto has any chance against the zombie dude you'd laugh in my face and he did manage to get him with the most fucking retarded strategy ever and a lucky shot from the wind rasengan.
That technique is building up to be a even bigger hack than the sharingan, in theory there isn't anyone Naruto can't kill right now with the possible exception of Tobi/Madara/Obito
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