Naruto Chapter 403

[FullMetalAlchemist]

The naruto that talked to itachi couldn't be a clone for the fact that if sasuke could tell which naruto was real in his fight with him i would expect itachi to do the same, and i also remember him thinking to himself on wheter he should run or not.

The ability itachi inplanted in naruto wont be a move to kill sasuke in a last ditch effort for the fact that he pretty much asked naruto if there was a chance that he would kill sasuke would he? i think he asked him to see wether or not he would kill sasuke which he doesn't want and to be assured that naruto would try to stop him from destroying the village. him saying lets hope you won't need it means lets hope sasuke doesn't decide to attack the village.

[Assertn]

It had to have been a clone...
The real Naruto was with the group.

Uh....when was anybody, including Sasuke, able to tell the real Naruto apart from a clone?

[Abdula]

It was stated early on that that was one of the abilities of the sharingan. Something to do with the sharingan's ability to see chakra.

The ability itachi inplanted in naruto wont be a move to kill sasuke in a last ditch effort for the fact that he pretty much asked naruto if there was a chance that he would kill sasuke would he? i think he asked him to see wether or not he would kill sasuke which he doesn't want and to be assured that naruto would try to stop him from destroying the village. him saying lets hope you won't need it means lets hope sasuke doesn't decide to attack the village.

Sounds good because if Sasuke was going to die or destroy the village then everything Itachi has done would have been for nothing.

[FullMetalAlchemist]

It had to have been a clone...
The real Naruto was with the group.

Uh....when was anybody, including Sasuke, able to tell the real Naruto apart from a clone?

When they fought each other, sasuke destroyed all his clones without attacking the real naruto and said something along the lines of "i already know which is the real one, i destroyed these to play your lilttle game" not exact words but something to that extent. he was able to tell because of the chakra.

[SilentSnake]

It was stated early on that that was one of the abilities of the sharingan. Something to do with the sharingan's ability to see chakra.


Sounds good because if Sasuke was going to die or destroy the village then everything Itachi has done would have been for nothing.

Assertn is right, sharingan can see the difference between regular clones (bunshin no jutsu) and real user, but shadow clones (kage bunshin no jutsu) is a technique that's distributing chakra evenly to the clones and giving them a body. It is exactly because of this fact that sharingan CANNOT tell the difference, giving the sharingan user "just" the ability to see that the user has a body and see its chakra flow etc. therefore making it impossible to tell if a person is the real deal or a kage bunshin.

It is still possible to use common sense to get the idea which one is it, but sharingan is not the answer here.

[chet_chetty]

Even though that is the real Naruto that met with Itachi, it makes no sense because the real Naruto needed to stay with the group so his bunshins could act as trackers so the real Naruto could relay anything important to the group. I guess I can see that his bunshins can get the knowledge he gains but that's not what we were shown.

Anyways, one ray of major hope was the Jiraiya flashback...

...specifically the lines on the 3rd and 4th panel of page 6. Correct me if I'm wrong but the lines in those panels were not written in the chapter with the original meeting between Jiraiya and Naruto in the hospital.

[Assertn]

This is interesting....
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/403/11/

Sasuke used sharingan when Itachi wiped out the clan?

[SilentSnake]

This is interesting....
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/403/11/

Sasuke used sharingan when Itachi wiped out the clan?

it kinda DOES look like 1 dot sharingan in both eyes oO

edit: normally Sasuke's eyes are large and black, I guess there's no mistaking it...

[DB_Hunter]

Very good observation, I missed that. It certainly is the Sharingan, as in the following panels his eyes are all black again. In this one each eye has a single tomoe in it.

[Raven]

Doesn't Sasuke first get his Sharingan during the Zabuza arc when he has to protect Naruto and Sakura? Plothole, oversight, or poor illustration in this chapter?

[SilentSnake]

Very good observation, I missed that. It certainly is the Sharingan, as in the following panels his eyes are all black again. In this one each eye has a single tomoe in it.

Following question is - why did he have to "awake" sharingan again when protecting naruto?

Was the trauma so big that after awakening sharingan it has gotten sealed along with traumatizing memories?

Or his emotions were really cut-off and he needed another emotional event to get them back?

Tis' a mystary 4 me.

[Abdula]

Assertn is right, sharingan can see the difference between regular clones (bunshin no jutsu) and real user, but shadow clones (kage bunshin no jutsu) is a technique that's distributing chakra evenly to the clones and giving them a body. It is exactly because of this fact that sharingan CANNOT tell the difference, giving the sharingan user "just" the ability to see that the user has a body and see its chakra flow etc. therefore making it impossible to tell if a person is the real deal or a kage bunshin.

It is still possible to use common sense to get the idea which one is it, but sharingan is not the answer here.

Sorry but you are confusing the two. What you're taking about is the byakugan, the byakugan can only see the flow of chakra so Neji was unable to tell the difference between Naruto and his clones because they had the same amount of chakra thus the flow would be the same. The sharingan is different because the sharingan "gives chakra color" which allows the user to see chakra itself so a sharingan user sees the shadow clone as just chakra where as the real person would have a physical body.

[Assertn]

Sorry but you are confusing the two. What you're taking about is the byakugan, the byakugan can only see the flow of chakra so Neji was unable to tell the difference between Naruto and his clones because they had the same amount of chakra thus the flow would be the same. The sharingan is different because the sharingan "gives chakra color" which allows the user to see chakra itself so a sharingan user sees the shadow clone as just chakra where as the real person would have a physical body.

Yeah, and the byakugan is superior to the sharingan in terms of insight.

Dude, you can spew your technicality nonsense all you want, but there has never been an example in the series where any sharingan user had singled out a real body among a bunch of kage bunshins without, as SilentSnake mentioned, just using common sense to read the opponent.

[Abdula]

Yeah, and the byakugan is superior to the sharingan in terms of insight.

I hope thats sarcasm.

[SilentSnake]

I hope thats sarcasm.

Believe it or not, but byakugan is considered to be evolved out of sharingan and was officially stated (in the manga) superior in some aspects to sharingan.

and my post did not mean byakugan, just because I didn't mention every single sharingan feat of sharingan and focused on those actually important here doesn't mean I confused the two :P

sharingan seeing kage bunshins as just chakra blobs -> I believe you mean the fight from chuunin exam where masked guys were making lotsa regular bunshins to hide their real attacks. That's the only moment I can associate your statement to.

[Abdula]

No thats not what I mean anyway never mind.

My point was yes it was said that the byakugan was superior to the sharingan in terms of insight but that was before Sasuke used X ray vision and started hacking into people's minds. It might have been true at some point but sharingan is the single most broken thing in all of Naruto. Oh and it was the sharingan that evolved from the byakugan not the other way around.

[NM]

Doesn't Sasuke first get his Sharingan during the Zabuza arc when he has to protect Naruto and Sakura? Plothole, oversight, or poor illustration in this chapter?

I checked back to the Haku fight and Sasuke's Sharingan actually has two comma's. So it makes sense although now I wonder why Sasuke never used his Sharingan before in his first encounter with Zabuza when Kakashi was captured. I would say that was a pretty desperate situation since they were up against a jounin. Here's the picture from Chapter 27.

[Assertn]

No thats not what I mean anyway never mind.

My point was yes it was said that the byakugan was superior to the sharingan in terms of insight but that was before Sasuke used X ray vision and started hacking into people's minds. It might have been true at some point but sharingan is the single most broken thing in all of Naruto. Oh and it was the sharingan that evolved from the byakugan not the other way around.

Mind hacking wasn't a new development...Kakashi used something similar back in his fight against Zabuza.

There still has not been a single example of sharingan seeing through kage bunshin, and I assure you there will be plenty of kage bunshins used against Sasuke in his next fight with Naruto.

[SilentSnake]

No thats not what I mean anyway never mind.

My point was yes it was said that the byakugan was superior to the sharingan in terms of insight but that was before Sasuke used X ray vision and started hacking into people's minds. It might have been true at some point but sharingan is the single most broken thing in all of Naruto. Oh and it was the sharingan that evolved from the byakugan not the other way around.

checked it, dunno why would I think that byakugan was the evolved one oO

but saying that "it might have been true at some point but..." seems ignorant, I know Kishi does a lot of things as if he was smoking weed when drawing/writing but it would be retarded if he just simply changed his mind at some point. another thing is we know basically nothing about byakugan's true powers so tbh, if Kishi wants it may be just as broken with weird powers like for example giving the user an ability to tell the difference between a real body and a shadow clone.

clone detector! (klo-ne-de-tek-t0-jug4n!)

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Wow I started some shit huh?

So we decided that Naruto in fact never did leave the group and that Itachi did implant a Kage Bunshin. Which does make kind of sense because it was mentioned that once released you do aquire the knowledge of the clone. And maybe Itachi put it deep in his mind thinking that Naruto wouldnt uncover it so soon? I dont know I am reaching here...