Yes you are right physical recomposition can and does refer to changing the physical properties or nature of your chakra.(added that to my second edit, which I guess was after you quoted me). As for Ying and Yang here are two articles that don't give you much information one, two I'll link something more relevant if and when I find one.
Last edited by Abdula; Sun, 04-27-2008 at 10:00 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Kishi has already manipulated the real definition of 'chakra' and 'element' to suit his needs to create fictional chemistry, physics, etc. for his Narutoverse. Even though there may be some similarities to the use of the 5 popular elements in many cultures and works of art, it would be unwise to parallel definitions and examples of element manipulation to the T from manga to manga, let alone culture to culture or philosophy to philosophy.
As it is, different cultures and philosophies sight 5 classical elements with 4 of those 5 being consistent amongst respective cultures and philosophies. The fifth is popularly referred as "aether" but can mean one out of a multitude of things: "idea", "spirit", "sounds", "divinity", "void", "space", "metal", "lightning" and probably even more. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element).
A standard understanding of element (nature) and its manipulation does not exist so we best only cite the examples, definitions, and explanations Kishi has given us in Naruto.
Good chapter. Im just slightly pissed because it took like 6 or 7 pages to shut sasuke up before we could move the story along. I mean he even had to tie him up. Sasuke is such a whiner. anyways good chapter. Konoha's elite are evil?!?! Prepare for the return of the sith......err uchihas.
I never said they are from the clans. I said they are "half" Uchiha and Senju. And you are wrong. Kakashi has a Sharingan so he has abilities from the Uchiha clan. Same with Yamato. They are both linked to this clans.Originally Posted by FullMetalAlchemist
I agree with you with the reason why Tsunade can't use wood element jutsu. I think we will know after the next chapter if the first was the only one who could use wood jutsu.
Well... I don't know why all take my post that serious ^^ It was just a thought. And I don't think Kakashi and Yamato are related or something to the clans. But they both have abilities of them (if the wood jutsu is a ability of the Senju clan).
And it is "The Senju clan of the forest". So it could be that the wood element is a bloodline limit of the clan. Even if the first was the only one who could use it. Maybe it is something like the MS? Just much stronger and harder to get it that just the first could activate?
But let us wait for the next chapter
Thanks, that's interesting.
When u say someone is "half" of something it implies that they are blood related in some way lol. Make it clear next time so technically im not wrongI never said they are from the clans. I said they are "half" Uchiha and Senju. And you are wrong. Kakashi has a Sharingan so he has abilities from the Uchiha clan. Same with Yamato. They are both linked to this clans.
I agree with you with the reason why Tsunade can't use wood element jutsu. I think we will know after the next chapter if the first was the only one who could use wood jutsu.
But let us wait for the next chapter
Ahhh! I can read and write English but I misunderstand some meanings. Well, I'm sorry about thatWhen u say someone is "half" of something it implies that they are blood related in some way lol. Make it clear next time so technically im not wrong
Kakashi said that "mixing element" = Bloodline limit. No matter if the first was the only one or not it is still a bloodline limit. Why should the Senju clan include other clans? In the last chapter Madara said that there were many clans which were hired by countries. After the "great war" (I think?) Konoha was founded by the Senju and Uchiha clan. All the other clans are allies or something like that and joined them.
Yep, that's what I got out of it too, The Senju and Uchiha decided to be buddy buddy one day and then some other clans decided to join the drum circle and next thing you know you have a ninja village.
What interests me is why they would decide to become buddy buddy in the first place. One would think since they were the two clans at the top there would have been a certain amount of animosity between them. I doubt many warlords could afford to hire both badass clans to fight for them at the same time so it's likely the Uchiha and Senju faced one another in battle on more than one occasion.
And if that's the case then the Senju must have used techniques not easily raped in one way or another by the brokeness of the Sharingan which would make them pretty impressive techniques indeed.
I think it is possible that Sarutobi's counselors and Denzou are also Senju clan members. Of course we don't know the specifics of Madara's ongoings yet, but it seems like Itachi was an undercover agent of Konoha's sent out to stop him. In order to establish his credentials with Madara, perhaps the top brass chose to sacrifice the Uchiha clan as an aspect of their continuing rivalry or mistrust of each other.
Whatever the truth is, it does seem fishy to me that the Uchiha massacre occured after the attack Madara visited upon the village by using his sharingan's control over the kyuubi. Again, referencing the Senju clan's rivalry with the Uchiha, the top brass would have identified an Uchiha source of power as being the cause of the attack and resolved that any Uchiha were too dangerous to be kept alive. Itachi, sensing this, agrees to participate in the destruction of his clan and to take up an undercover assignment in exchange for some reassurance that his brother's life be spared (referencing Madara's hint that Itachi had done all this to protect Sasuke.)
Good theory. This seems highly plausible, and likely the frontrunner plotline for what really happened.
Still, my biggest concern about the Uchiha story atm is what Madara wants from Sasuke that he couldn't have gotten from Itachi.
Really? Wow thanks. I wrote that at like 2:30 in the morning. I don't think it was that great. I mean I was coming up with stuff that was half baked. The Senju clan is more powerful to me than the Uchiha crew. But, most people don't agree with me on that one. But I came up that theory weighing different things:
Uchiha clan:
can control bijuu
can control other uchiha (Madara atleast)
copy other jutsus (sans blood limit , I don't want to start another argument so please just accept that as my answer)
only a few can achieve EMS
Senju clan:
Can also control bijuu (oh wait, only the first could)
wood jutsu (oh wait only the first could)
Nothing else but great ninjas
Now. I'm not saying that the Uchiha kick ass better than the Senju. But I don't think I'm wrong in saying that the Uchiha know they're shit a little more because of the almighty eyes. And my theory is my theory so don't get me wrong. But lots of Uchihas can copy lots of jutsus and even Madara can control a whole army of people. And better yet, some chapters back, he even controlled a clan of fellow family members to do his bidding for him while he was king/CEO. And of the entire senju clan, only the first has any real powers worth some salt. Basically, without Madara, the Uchiha are fine. Without the first the senju are fucked. In more ways than one.
Last edited by docdan63; Sat, 05-03-2008 at 02:52 AM.
Well we can't say for sure but we've seen enough evidence to show that having a bloodline limit no matter how broken it is doesn't make you an unstoppable ninja. Its the ninjas themselves that make the difference. Uchiha, Hyuuga, Kaguya they can all get owned despite their Kekkai Genkais. Even Pein who is supposed the have the strongest and rarest of them all could have and would have lost to Jiraiya so it isn't as simple as saying the ninjas who have a Kekkai are better than others. If two ninjas of the same level go at it then the one with the Kekkai Genkai will have an advantage so having one is a plus but its not everything.
Secondly Madara said that the Senju clan and the Uchiha clan were the top dogs and him and the first were the best in their respective clans that doesn't mean that the clans wouldn't be able to do anything without them because I would think its the overall strength of the clan not the top two individuals that made them the best. Besides Itachi said that Madara's little brother rivaled Madara in strength and competing against each other is what made them get so strong that was before he killed him of course and as for the Senju, the second hokage was the first's little brother.
Anyway, since it was revealed that Itachi was ordered to kill the clan and only those 4 knew about it. I was wondering if there wasn't another reason for Danzo ordering Sai to kill Sasuke.
Last edited by Abdula; Sat, 05-03-2008 at 01:45 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
You people are using the term bloodline too loosely.
Just because some bloodline abilities are the combination and mixing of 2 elements doesn't mean they all are. It was stated that the Shodaime was the ONLY ninja capable of using the wood element (besides Yamato, whose just a clone of him anyways). Thus meaning, his offspring could not use it, and Tsunade sure as hell can not use it. So how's that a bloodline ability? It's not a passed trait or ability to your offspring thus totally negating the term Bloodline.
Kakashi can't copy the Rasengan either with his Sharingan, does that make it a bloodline ability too? Nope.
I think where confusion comes in is when people add in external knowledge about genetics to what we know about the First. Science teaches that any genetic trait a person has can be passed onto their offspring through genes. However people seem to forget that genetic traits can be recessive and sometimes once in a billion flukes.
The wood element is a Kekkei Genkai because we were just told that it requires Kekkei Genkai to be able to mix chakra types. If you look at the term Kekkei Genkai as 'special genetic traits' it shouldn't be that hard to rectify the Wood element as both a Kekkei Genkai and unique to one person and his genetic clone.
Short version: Genetic traits do not have to manifest in every generation, or even every few generations, or even more than once in the history of humanity for them to be genetic traits.
Longer Version: It's most likely that the First had a rare, previously unheard of mix of recessive genes that allowed him to mix earth and water chakra to use the wood element. If the requirement was the product of many different genetic factors that have only ever appeared together in the First then only he (or a clone of him) would be capable of using wood techniques. The chance that mixing his unique genes with someone not of the same or a similar genetic heritage and producing an offspring with all of the necessary genetic markers to allow the offsring to also use the technique would be indirectly proportional to the complexity and recessiveness of the genetic markers that enable wood element use.
For the sake of argument lets say it requires 10 different rare and recessive genes to be present on 10 different chromosomes. In that case, the chance that all 10 would pass intact onto an offspring and not be dominated by any dominant genes from the mother should be pretty low.
Addendum: There's also no reason anyone wouldn't be able to understand the mechanism behind the Rasengan even without a Sharingan. It's a simply a lot of chakra spinning around very fast in a confined space. What makes it difficult to duplicate is that it requires above average effort and skill to generate, maintain, and control the high energy, high entropy chakra and thus make it usable. Sharingan should certainly be able to perceive what goes into the technique but I don't believe it grants the users body the ability to spontaneously reproduce the same effects without any practice or training.
Last edited by Yukimura; Sun, 05-04-2008 at 01:24 AM.
@Animus: Kakashi can use Rasengan, and we don't know if that's because he copied it or was actually taught it by Jiraiya or Minato.
Well as far as the limitations of the sharingan's copy ability were explained and the fact that the rasengan is only shape manipulation there isn't any reason to think that the sharingan can't copy it, especially since the sharingan can see chakra and all.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
There is something that sounds fishy here and i dont know if any1 has mentioned it, before the time jump we were told that hinata's clan were the oldest clan that lived in konoha since the foundation of it, and sharingan came off from their clan too somehow. My question comes, where were the hyuugas when it is said now that senju and uchihas were the first?
Well the village hasn't been founded yet so there isn't any problem because obviously other clans joined the village after it was founded. As for them being the oldest there isn't really anything to dispute that. They probably are the oldest clan there is, with all the fuss they make about self preservation and the continuation of their bloodline. Anyway its seems that the Uchiha and the Senju founded the village but we don't know the specifics yet like when, where and how this all came about. So even though they founded the village I doubt it was just those two clans alone, the Hyuuga were most likely involved as well and the Nara clan has a big ass forest right outside the village.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I wasn't aware he could use it. I was under the assumption that his attempts at making a Rasengan was how he got Chidori.
No that was his own technique. Which leads to the interesting question of what a Rasengan with Kakashi's own nature manipulation, electricity, be like.
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