Originally Posted by Garhert
Kakashi is not an uchiha in anyway, his sharingan is a transplant from Obito who was his team member who died during a mission in which kakashi lost an eye. Yamato is an experiment from oro, he was fused with the first cells otherwise he has nothing to do with the first so he isn't from that clan. I believe the first was the only ninja who could use wood element thats the reason tsunade doesn't have it, anyway that was the point of fusing his cells into yamato.
I never said they are from the clans. I said they are "half" Uchiha and Senju. And you are wrong. Kakashi has a Sharingan so he has abilities from the Uchiha clan. Same with Yamato. They are both linked to this clans.
I agree with you with the reason why Tsunade can't use wood element jutsu. I think we will know after the next chapter if the first was the only one who could use wood jutsu.
Well... I don't know why all take my post that serious ^^ It was just a thought. And I don't think Kakashi and Yamato are related or something to the clans. But they both have abilities of them (if the wood jutsu is a ability of the Senju clan).
And it is "The Senju clan of the forest". So it could be that the wood element is a bloodline limit of the clan. Even if the first was the only one who could use it. Maybe it is something like the MS? Just much stronger and harder to get it that just the first could activate?
But let us wait for the next chapter
When u say someone is "half" of something it implies that they are blood related in some way lol. Make it clear next time so technically im not wrongI never said they are from the clans. I said they are "half" Uchiha and Senju. And you are wrong. Kakashi has a Sharingan so he has abilities from the Uchiha clan. Same with Yamato. They are both linked to this clans.
I agree with you with the reason why Tsunade can't use wood element jutsu. I think we will know after the next chapter if the first was the only one who could use wood jutsu.
But let us wait for the next chapter
He doesn't seem to care about the clan or want it to survive. I don't know if its true or not but Itachi did say that Madara helped him to eliminate the clan on that night. He certainly didn't seem to be too concerned about them back then either, as he told Sasuke he will and has sacrificed everything in order to gain power.
About reviving the clan for a bloodline as peculiar as the Uchiha's I don't know if the offspring would inherit the sharingan if both parents aren't Uchihas but there really isn't much point in speculating about that now.
-Besides I think the point of them killing of the clan is because they don't want it to survive. I mean if the clan was so dangerous that all of them needed to be killed off, I don't think they would have allowed Itachi to leave Sasuke alive if his offspring would be able to revive the clan.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Best chapter in a while. I like where this is going. Finally we seem to be getting some answers. A mini-history arc is just what the doctor ordered.
I think I know precisely what I mean
when I say it's a schpadoinkle day
Please you are obviously a manga reader so don't talk about anime mistranslations in here okay. The First's ability was not a Bloodline Limit and it was already discussed why that is so, if the anime wants to mess with its watchers then just let it be.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Dude you are wrong, just admit it lol here is the proof
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/316/08/
Not everyone can mix chakras together it is supposed to be very rare hence the bloodline limit term. It doesn't only apply to eye technique or bones comming out your body like kimi (just examples there is also the shadow binding techs and many others we have probably yet to see) , making a new element like haku or the first are also bloodlimits.
lol.
I just like how people always have to be so quick to discredit something from being a bloodline limit. It's been stated several times that the sharingan cannot copy bloodline limits, and Kakashi obviously can't copy mokuton. If it's something only the 1st could do, then why is it only something the 1st could do?
Any ability that any ninja has could be developed in one of three ways:
1) Learned/Trained it.
2) Genetically acquired it.
3) Recieved through a seal/physical mutation. (I'll throw this in to pre-emptively avoid the bitching, although it has no relevance here)
If mokuton is something you can't learn, then it would have to be genetic.
While genetic characteristics of an individual can be inherited, it can also be the evolution of different genetic traits. Therefore, bloodline limits can be inherited, or it can be evolved.
In other words, just because its something ONLY you can do, does not mean its not a bloodline limit.
Last edited by Assertn; Sun, 04-27-2008 at 01:29 PM.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I was also under the impression that certain bloodline limits were the result of mixing the elements.
No.....the ability to perform wood jutsu IS a bloodline limit.
I'm also going to assume that the next few chapters will reveal that the whole Senju clan had this ability.
However, just because an ancestor of yours had a bloodline limit, doesn't necessarily mean you will as well. Not all pure-blood Uchihas ever awaken their sharingan, for example. Also, Haku's mother had hoped that Haku did not inherit her bloodlimit, since Haku is technically only a half-breed of her clan.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Sure. I'm sure certain bloodline limits would give users the ability to mix elements but that doesn't mean that everyone who can mix elements has a bloodline limit. I guess its semantics. However it was said that the first hokage was the only one who could use mokuton so that alone says its not a bloodline limit, I suppose you could call it a blood limit if you want. Plus we saw the Third Kazekage's ability and that too was said to be an ability only he has. I just think its silly to think that only a bloodline limit would give someone the ability to mix elements so therefore anyone who could mix elements has a bloodline limit. I mean Gaara's ability is obviously a mixture of earth and wind elements but thats not a bloodline limit now is it. Its an ability only Shukaku has that his hosts acquire.
In my opinion the thing that determines whether something is a bloodline limit or not is whether it can be passed on if it can't then it isn't one if it can then it is. I don't see any problem with referring to unique abilities like that as Kekkai Genkais even though I don't consider them to be.
-Remember Naruto asked about Shikamaru's and Choji's jutsus and medical and genjutsus too and Kakashi said those were different. Those too all obviously involve mixing of elements as well but they aren't bloodline limits.
We shall see Assertn, I don't think its likely.
Last edited by Abdula; Sun, 04-27-2008 at 12:32 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Then your opinion is wrong. Kakashi said: "When you have two elements you can control, it's not very difficult to use them separately. But it's a totally different story when it comes to using both together. The ability to control two elements simultaneously and create a new element to manipulate -- that's what's called a kekkei genkai." C316
No, these jutsu do not involve mixing elements. They involve something called "physical recomposition" of yin and yang. C316-Remember Naruto asked about Shikamaru's and Choji's jutsus and medical and genjutsus too and Kakashi said those were different. Those too all obviously involve mixing of elements as well but they aren't bloodline limits.
Uh, well like I said I don't have any problem with that nor do I have a problem with them being Kekkai Genkais its just that the term bloodline limit implies that it can be passed on to your offspring.
I think we're getting off track here my original reply that started all this discussion was in response to Garhert post in which he suggested that Yamato may be half Senju. I took that to mean that he thinks the reason he survived Oro's experiments was because he was a descendant of the first and therefore had Senju blood in him which is why he was able to successfully acquire the first abilities.
My response to that was to say that I don't think the first ability was a bloodline limit and I believe I put the line part in Italics to suggest that even though the first ability is considered to be a Kekkai genkai, it was said that he is the only one who could do it which means that the technique won't be passed on to his offspring. I didn't mean to say that the First's technique isn't a kekkai genkai I just meant to say that it can't/wasn't passed on.
I hope you understand what I'm saying, I'm aware that traditional bloodline limits may or may not be passed on or that some people within a clan may inherit those traits stronger than others as with Neji or not at all like Haku's mother was hoping. Anyway long story short I know that the First's technique is a Kekkai Genkai, I just meant to say that it was said that he is the only one who could use it and as yet there hasn't been shown that anyone else in the clan can use it so there shouldn't be anyway anyone else would be able to use the technique short of injecting the persons DNA into them like Oro did. Sorry that got lost somewhere along the line.
-To the person who neg repped me saying this
Admit it when you are wrong. It's more graceful than changing your story and acting as if you agreed with what was being said all along.Really I'm perfectly willing to admit when I'm wrong because just as everyone else I'm wrong quite often but I wasn't changing my story, that was in fact what I was trying to say its just that you guys didn't seem to understand what I was saying (which also happens quite often) so I just elaborated on what I was saying. I just assumed we were all on the same page and I neglected to explicitly state what I meant which I admit was a mistake. I'm not being duplicitous like you seem to think I am.They didn't say it was a bloodline limit of the senju clan.
The First's ability was not a Bloodline Limit and it was already discussed why that is so
I guess its semantics.
In my opinion the thing that determines whether something is a bloodline limit or not is whether it can be passed on if it can't then it isn't one if it can then it is. I don't see any problem with referring to unique abilities like that as Kekkai Genkais.
Last edited by Abdula; Sun, 04-27-2008 at 03:11 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Honestly, since first was the leader of Senju and story presented by Madara taken place a long time ago the statement that "First was the only one to hold that ability" might simply mean that he was the last of Senju and that's why he was the only one with the ability.
Since Senju and Uchiha were the most powerful clans and both Madara and First had unique abilities there is no reason for us to NOT believe that wood element wasn't just Senju's clan kekkai genkai just like sharingan was Madara's...
Yamato being half-Senju -> there were many Oro's experiments to create first's clone with the ability, he was the only one that survived, that's all, I see no reason to take Garhert's post all THAT serious about half-clan thing.
True but in that case there would be no reason why Kishi would say that the first was the only one Kishi could have simply said that he was the last of his clan therefore he is the only one who can use that technique like what Kishi did with Haku and Kimimaro. The thing with the first's ability is that it was introduced directly after the Third Kakekage's ability and the whole thing with Sasori wanting the Third's ability and Oro wanting the First's ability seemed to parallel each other. Anyway this will probably be resolved in the next chapter.
-Edit to below, if so he would have corrected that when Yamato was introduced and the whole thing about the first's abilities was brought back up.
Last edited by Abdula; Sun, 04-27-2008 at 07:21 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
...Or it could also have been that Kishi hadn't fleshed out the 1st's history back when he first mentioned him about 5 years ago.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Of all the idiotic things I've seen argued on these forums, this one just might be tops.
Damn would you get it through your head that what I was talking about was the specific line part of the the bloodline limit not what they are or aren't called but specifically whether or not the First's ability would be passed from parent to child.
Btw I already read that chapter which is why I referred to stuff that was in there in my previous posts not the mention that FMA has already talked about what you mentioned and posted a link to the chapter no less. Since you don't seem to know what "physical recomposition" is basically as far as this is concerned atleast, all they are talking about is combining the two different chakras to make a new one its just a complicated way of saying mixing, it also refers to the properties or nature of the chakra. Also anyone who is familiar with this stuff should know that ying and yang or light and dark as the anime refers to it are elements of chakra itself.
-Tried to remove or atleast dumb down the overly aggressive tone of this post as I was already upset over something completely unrelated to this.
Last edited by Abdula; Sun, 04-27-2008 at 09:19 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
No, it's not. I just read 316-318 or so, and physical recomposition means turning chakra into its element. A wind chakra user's chakra literally turns to wind. An electricity user's chakra turns to electricity. Physical recomposition is what allows Sasuke to breath fire, for example.
No, they're not. At least not in the same sense as Earth, Wind, Fire, Water, and Electricity, the elements Kakashi was talking about.Also anyone who is familiar with this stuff should know that ying and yang are elements of chakra itself.
Yes you are right physical recomposition can and does refer to changing the physical properties or nature of your chakra.(added that to my second edit, which I guess was after you quoted me). As for Ying and Yang here are two articles that don't give you much information one, two I'll link something more relevant if and when I find one.
Last edited by Abdula; Sun, 04-27-2008 at 10:00 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
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