Naruto Shippuuden Episode 56

[Uchiha Barles]

What is going to piss me off, is if we see skills the characters show in the filler, that have not, nor will be shown in the manga or any anime episode that follows the manga. I'm thinking about the filler ep where Naruto used the first step of his rasengan creation to make whirlpool that owned the hell out of those three mist or water or whatever ninjas that were holding Sasuke and Sakura in check. The episode was garbage, but that moment was cool. When's the last time he did anything that awesome, that didn't involve the kyuubi, and that was also part of the actual story?

[SilentSnake]

What is going to piss me off, is if we see skills the characters show in the filler, that have not, nor will be shown in the manga or any anime episode that follows the manga. I'm thinking about the filler ep where Naruto used the first step of his rasengan creation to make whirlpool that owned the hell out of those three mist or water or whatever ninjas that were holding Sasuke and Sakura in check. The episode was garbage, but that moment was cool. When's the last time he did anything that awesome, that didn't involve the kyuubi, and that was also part of the actual story?

Damn... I recall no such event

You'd have to take out the kyuubi part of that sentence...

well... he DID cut a leaf in half by HIMSELF

[Archangel]

Damn... I recall no such event

You'd have to take out the kyuubi part of that sentence...

well... he DID cut a leaf in half by HIMSELF

Nope, he used the kyuubi's chakra as well :P That's why yamato was there.

[Chiodos]

Oh noe. You reminded me of Narutos Rasengan Filler Spamming.

Please, no rinse and reapeat, dear fillers!

[Idealistic]

Oh noe. You reminded me of Narutos Rasengan Filler Spamming.

Please, no rinse and reapeat, dear fillers!

Now that Naruto has learned a bigger Rasengan, this time he'll be asked to make a meal big enough for a big feast. Was it spaghetti or something that he made with his rasengan or something? Anyways, yep... I can see it already.

[KrayZ33]

Now that Naruto has learned a bigger Rasengan, this time he'll be asked to make a meal big enough for a big feast. Was it spaghetti or something that he made with his rasengan or something? Anyways, yep... I can see it already.

that filler was actually pretty funny!

btw:

I still don't get it.. in which way will this training help Naruto? Its simply nonesene... Rasengan was able to cut through most things anyways, the problem is that he missed all the time.. a direct hit from a rasengan would mean K.O. for most of his enemies.. but there is the problem, HE CAN NOT HIT THEM!... the new rasengan won't change that fact. Why doesn't kakashi train him to move faster like he did with Sasuke.

[Kraco]

There's nothing wrong about using kyuubi chakra. It's his to use. Things only start to go wrong once he relinquishes control of his body to the kyuubi. All who say otherwise only say so because of envy. Or because they believe Naruto will eventually lose the kyuubi to the Akatsuki, and thus needs to learn to live without it.

[Archangel]

Well that seems unlikely since we've run out of granny's to offer as sacrifice but since naruto got his bijuu in a special way i guess that's possible

Beside, kyuubi or no kyuubi naruto still sucks these days, i just hope he doesn't make a fool of himself yet again in this arc.

[Abdula]

Uh just when I thought there was a possibility of this filler turning out well. Its seems all they are going to do is effectively ruin this arc and the next one. Naruto has gotten to that point where if you don't read the manga then its almost impossible to tell what is filler and what isn't.

Nope, he used the kyuubi's chakra as well :P That's why yamato was there.

What is your hang up. Naruto is not using the Kyuubi's chakra that is precisely why Yamato is their. He is constantly suppressing it so that Naruto can't use it. Have your seen Naruto with red eyes or red chakra? I mean why do you think Yamato is so exhausted.

If they can just do this, as in stick in a couple filler episodes every now and then to add more depth into what the manga couldn't cover, it would be a lot better.

There is one problem in most cases Kishi purposely doesn't cover stuff because he intends to explain or elaborate on it later, which he usually does. So if the anime introduces some filler crap for the sake of consistentcy(not that they seem to care about that) they'll probably integrate the filler garbage into the show like Bleach did.

[Uchiha Barles]

Uh just when I thought there was a possibility of this filler turning out well. Its seems all they are going to do is effectively ruin this arc and the next one. Naruto has gotten to that point where if you don't read the manga then its almost impossible to tell what is filler and what isn't.

Omg, hell yes! THANK YOU! I was looking for the perfect way to describe just how much this show has degenerated, and you come in and describe it spot on. Bravo!

I just go by kakashi's math, if he says naruto has 4 times his chakra and kakashi can get like 5 shadow clones at best then there's no way naruto is only using his chakra

My theory is that you don't see the red chakra or the red eyes precisely because yamato is there, blocking kyuubi's will.

For a good idea of just how many clones Naruto can make without using any of kyuubi's chakra, go back to the Gaara fight he had. He can make at least that many. And since his chakra capacity likely increased over the 2.5 years of "training", then he can probably make a hell of a lot more using his own chakra. I think what abdula said is right about why kakashi can't train using even 1/4 the amount of clones Naruto uses. However, I do also think that the kyuubi is being used, and Yamato's there to prevent Naruto from going bonkers. Otherwise it really is just a huge waste of an awesome chakra source.

[Archangel]

For a good idea of just how many clones Naruto can make without using any of kyuubi's chakra, go back to the Gaara fight he had. He can make at least that many. And since his chakra capacity likely increased over the 2.5 years of "training", then he can probably make a hell of a lot more using his own chakra. I think what abdula said is right about why kakashi can't train using even 1/4 the amount of clones Naruto uses. However, I do also think that the kyuubi is being used, and Yamato's there to prevent Naruto from going bonkers. Otherwise it really is just a huge waste of an awesome chakra source.

Sorry dude, that doesn't count because it was a hero power up. You know this because he was able to summon the frog kind even without the nine tails chakra, something he shouldn't be able to do especially after doing that many shadow clones.

kray is exactly right, even if you think that naruto can do that many shadow clones all on his own you still have to see that all of them are doing a chakra based training and doing so for long periods of time. There's no way he isn't using the nine tails.

[Uchiha Barles]

Sorry dude, that doesn't count because it was a hero power up. You know this because he was able to summon the frog kind even without the nine tails chakra, something he shouldn't be able to do especially after doing that many shadow clones.

kray is exactly right, even if you think that naruto can do that many shadow clones all on his own you still have to see that all of them are doing a chakra based training and doing so for long periods of time. There's no way he isn't using the nine tails.

I doubt that was a hero power up. During the training with Jiraiya, it was shown that Naruto alone didn't have enough Chakra to summon Gamabunta on his own. When the summon actually occured, during the training, you could see all his regular chakra, which was blue, and a hell of a lot more red chakra from the demon, all of which was used to summon Gamabunta.

During the Gaara fight, while Gaara is getting ready to Desert Funeral Naruto into a bloody mess, Naruto says something like "crap, I ran out of chakra making those clones". Then, he think's about Sakura, and proceeds to summon Gamabunta. This is not proof, but evidence, that he used the kyubi's chakra for the summon. Further evidence is, from that point on, the majority of the battle was fought by Gamabunta.The only think Naruto did after that point was a shapeshift jutsu with Gamabunta. Afterwards, even the demon chakra was depleted, and he had to pry and beg for just a little bit more to escape another incoming desert funeral while standing on top of Gaara's demon. So no, at the anime was very consistant at that point. Not a single power up occured there. Everything Naruto did had already been well established by other things previous to that fight. In fact, for that very reason, the Gaara/Naruto fight is my favorite Naruto fight to date.

Last point, I've already agreed with Kraco. I just didn't see his post before I posted mine.

Edit: Actually, I should say, I already agreed with KrayZ whose post I didn't see before I made mine. And KrayZ seems to agree Kraco. So yeah.

[Abdula]

It may or may not be chakra intensive. Its definitely intense training and it appears that it requires alot of effort but that doesn't actually mean that the training itself is using up a lot of chakra. I agree that using these many clones would require alot of chakra but I don't know if thats proof that he is using the Kyuubi's chakra. In the first episode of Naruto we did see him use the mass shadow clone technique and create "1000" clones and he didn't seem too affected by it. Now I'm not sure what to make of that since I don't believe he was using the Kyuubi's chakra back then as I don't think he was able to do so until his battle with Haku.

As to your first point Naruto did indeed say that he was completely out of chakra after using the shadow clones and I too believe that he did use the Kyuubi's chakra to do the summoning. They did play that chiming music they used to play back then everytime he used the Kyuubi's chakra as well but I wouldn't make too much of that. Anyway whatever the case after he did the summoning he was completely out of chakra for sure and he didn't actually use any chakra to do the transformation jutsu, all he did was make the hand signs since Gamabunta couldn't and Gamabunta provided the chakra.

@ KrayZ: Naruto always has residual Kyuubi chakra flowing inside but I don't think he can actually use that for battle. Example, back when Oro put the seal on him he wasn't able to draw on the Kyuubi's chakra but as was shown after his battle with Kiba even though he couldn't utilize the Kyuubi's chakra it was still able to heal his wounds. If stamina really depends on your physical attributes then I think this is what is responsible for Naruto having such a large amount of stamina even though he doesn't appear to have the physique for it and hasn't gone through excessive training like Gai or Lee do.

We don't know the specifics of exactly how, why or when Naruto's eyes would turn red, when it comes to that the anime has been consistently inconsistent and I won't bother bringing up how things are in the manga.

@Silent Snake: I agree. I got the impression that the amount of clones the person can use and what the clones will or won't be able to do depends on the amount of chakra the user has but the length of time for which the user can maintain the clones depends on their stamina. Which is why I think that other people would be able to use the same training method as Naruto, it just won't be as effective because depending on their chakra there would be a limit as to what the clones can do and if they don't have much stamina their clones wouldn't last very long. Btw that little bit with Naruto arguing with his own clones was hilarious especially when one of them pointed out that he was being an idiot because they are all the same person. Classic Naruto.

[Archangel]

I just go by kakashi's math, if he says naruto has 4 times his chakra and kakashi can get like 5 shadow clones at best then there's no way naruto is only using his chakra

My theory is that you don't see the red chakra or the red eyes precisely because yamato is there, blocking kyuubi's will.

I still don't get it.. in which way will this training help Naruto? Its simply nonesene... Rasengan was able to cut through most things anyways, the problem is that he missed all the time.. a direct hit from a rasengan would mean K.O. for most of his enemies.. but there is the problem, HE CAN NOT HIT THEM!... the new rasengan won't change that fact. Why doesn't kakashi train him to move faster like he did with Sasuke.

There's been much talk about a new rasengan but the truth is that it hasn't been confirmed 100%. Besides i'm thinking the wind chakra will have many other uses besides the new technique naruto is developing. Just think about it, if naruto can power up just the simple "leaf cutter jutsu" he would only have to touch his opponent to inflict some massive damage.

Example: Just think how easily he could have thorn sasuke's arm off right here

[Abdula]

Dude don't be so dense. Kakashi's exact words were and I quote " If we don't suppress the Kyuubi's chakra, then you'd have about 1000 times as much as me." Immediately after he said that Yamato said that the reason he is there is to suppress the Kyuubi's chakra and yet you still think Naruto is using it.

Secondly the new technique is going to be a rasengan. The reason I say that is this, Kakashi told Naruto that the create his ultimate technique he would need to use both shape and nature manipulation together. He then went on to explain the two blah, blah, blah. Important thing is that he made Naruto do the rasengan and said that the rasengan itself is shape manipulation to the highest level whats important to note is that rasengan is the only technique Naruto knows that uses shape manipulation and Kakashi did say that the new technique would require both shape and chakra manipulation.

If that isn't enough for you then there is the fact that Naruto said that all he needed to do was add nature manipulation to the rasengan then he would have a new technique in no time and Kakashi said yes, but that it wouldn't be that easy since naruto has no idea how to use nature manipulation.

-Btw there is no math there since you have no idea just how many shadow clones Kakashi can make. He said the reason he can't use this training method is because he doesn't have as much chakra as Naruto and more importantly he doesn't have as much stamina so he can't maintain shadow clones for very long. There was nothing to indicate what limit there is on the number of clones he can produce.

[KrayZ33]

Dude don't be so dense. Kakashi's exact words were and I quote " If we don't suppress the Kyuubi's chakra, then you'd have about 1000 times as much as me." Immediately after he said that Yamato said that the reason he is there is to suppress the Kyuubi's chakra and yet you still think Naruto is using it.
.

don't talk so highly and big when you are most likely wrong.

the exact words from yamato were "I m here to control the nine-tail's chakra"
this doesn't exclude the possibility that he's actually using it.

control and supress are two very different words... the former actually means that he IS using it (thats why you need control over it), the second one means that he's not using it.

and btw

Naruto:"kyuubi's chakra....?"
Yamato: "thats why you are the only one who can handle this kind of training."

i don't think naruto is the only one with more chakra than Kakashi.. especially when kakashi said "Kage-Bushin is not good for people with low chakra capacities like me"

well to sum this up... yamato allows naruto to draw chakra from the ninetails, but prevents him from using too much at once, so the kyuubi won't awaken.

[KrayZ33]

well, kakashi was able to create like 30 shadowclones (or more) when he was alrdy out of chakra.... remember the fight against zabuza? and the angry mob after that?

I don't think that the amount of clones has to do anything with it, but more what you do with your clones.
The advantage of this kind of training is, that every single clone uses a huge amount of chakra for training and not just him alone, remember when he tried to learn the rasengan, he was TOTALLY exhausted even though he trained by himself without using kage-bushin...now imagine him doing the same kind of training with 100 shadowclones.. there is now way he is NOT using the nine-tails

[Abdula]

Why is it that you guys just try to argue everything with me. Frankly I'm just trying to show my reasoning for my opinion and why I think Archangel is wrong since his theory isn't supported by much evidence. I'm not talking high or big and I don't care whose wrong or right, I would agree with his theories or anyone else's(like I have done in the past) if I find that there is enough evidence to support them. Similarly I would agree that my theories are wrong if there is sufficient evidence to support that(hopefully this is the last time I feel the need to have to defend myself in that regard). I really didn't wish to quote the anime since the translations tend to be rather liberal and usually portray an incorrect or atleast an inaccurate message. I believe I mentioned this before when I talked about the whole lightning element "lightning edge" thing in the other thread.

Anyway speaking of the liberal and/or mistranslations let me elaborate. In the manga Kakashi specifically said that if Yamato doesn't suppress the Kyuubi's chakra then Naruto would be able to use 100 times more chakra than he could. Him talking about the Kyuubi was him refering to the difference in chakra capacity between him and Naruto it didn't have anything to do with the training.

If anyone noticed I said 100 then I'd like to let you know that that isn't a typo that is actually what they said, in the manga anyway. What Kakashi said is that normally Naruto has twice as much chakra as he does and like I said above if Yamato doesn't suppress the Kyuubi he would be able to use 100 times more.

Since we were having this debate last time its interesting to note that, in the manga, Kakashi never said that other people wouldn't be able to use the same training method as Naruto. He said that low chakra capacity ninjas like him can't fully utilize the shadow clones like that and he said the he specifically can't use that method because he doesn't have as much stamina as Naruto so his clones don't last very long.

Its also important to note that as the word suggests, a ninjas capacity isn't referring to the amount of chakra the ninja currently has.

[KrayZ33]

Why is it that you guys just try to argue everything with me. Frankly I'm just trying to show my reasoning for my opinion

But it sucks that your reasoning comes from the manga (again you just showed us that you rely on the manga and not on the anime)...and why arn't we allowed to argue?

The same thing goes for me, I want to show my reasoning and my opinion. If you are allowed to argue, why arn't we? And why are you allowed to say "don't be so dense" etc. and we are not? (to be honest many of your "I know everything"-posts do have an agressive tone in it)

It looks like you feel attacked if someone has a different opinion than you.
The one who cannot accept other opinions is you and not us. You don't have to act as the victim here, really you don't. There is no need for anyone to feel this way

He said that low chakra capacity ninjas like him can't fully utilize the shadow clones like that and he said the he specifically can't use that method because he doesn't have as much stamina as Naruto so his clones don't last very long.

he says the same thing in the anime

Its also important to note that as the word suggests, a ninjas capacity isn't referring to the amount of chakra the ninja currently has.

who said something else?


Btw I think my position (which is the same as archangels) is supported by evidence. (just read the posts, they might be written poorly because of my english skills, but I think they are understandable, if not just tell me and I try to correct it)

and first of all show me evidence for this comment

Have your seen Naruto with red eyes or red chakra? I mean why do you think Yamato is so exhausted.

when he fought neji, his eyes didn't turn red and unless he draws too much chakra from the nine tails there won't be any chakra visible at all. When we see naruto cloaked in a red chakra, then it means that he draws out so much that it actually CAN becomes visible. But if he doesn't drain so much, then it won't become visible. It becomes visible as soon as it leaks out of the body (either by ninjutsu or because its simply to much for the body to handle).. so as long Naruto is able to use all the chakra he drains, then there won't be a visible aura around him and with 200 clones around him, he's surely able to use the chakra he is "allowed" to drain from the nine-tails... and the amount he is allowed to drain is "controlled" by Yamato..

that could also be the reason why Yamato has more and more problems to control it and needs to pause.. because he keeps draining from the nine-tails which wakens him up more and more.

[Kusanagi]

Until either Naruto/Kakashi/Yamato come out and specifically say "we are using Kyuubi's chakra for this" I will lean toward the belief that they are not using it and are only using Naruto's chakra.