Naruto Shippuuden Episode 56

[Uchiha Barles]

What is going to piss me off, is if we see skills the characters show in the filler, that have not, nor will be shown in the manga or any anime episode that follows the manga. I'm thinking about the filler ep where Naruto used the first step of his rasengan creation to make whirlpool that owned the hell out of those three mist or water or whatever ninjas that were holding Sasuke and Sakura in check. The episode was garbage, but that moment was cool. When's the last time he did anything that awesome, that didn't involve the kyuubi, and that was also part of the actual story?

[Chiodos]

Oh noe. You reminded me of Narutos Rasengan Filler Spamming.

Please, no rinse and reapeat, dear fillers!

[SilentSnake]

What is going to piss me off, is if we see skills the characters show in the filler, that have not, nor will be shown in the manga or any anime episode that follows the manga. I'm thinking about the filler ep where Naruto used the first step of his rasengan creation to make whirlpool that owned the hell out of those three mist or water or whatever ninjas that were holding Sasuke and Sakura in check. The episode was garbage, but that moment was cool. When's the last time he did anything that awesome, that didn't involve the kyuubi, and that was also part of the actual story?

Damn... I recall no such event

You'd have to take out the kyuubi part of that sentence...

well... he DID cut a leaf in half by HIMSELF

[Archangel]

Damn... I recall no such event

You'd have to take out the kyuubi part of that sentence...

well... he DID cut a leaf in half by HIMSELF

Nope, he used the kyuubi's chakra as well :P That's why yamato was there.

[Kraco]

There's nothing wrong about using kyuubi chakra. It's his to use. Things only start to go wrong once he relinquishes control of his body to the kyuubi. All who say otherwise only say so because of envy. Or because they believe Naruto will eventually lose the kyuubi to the Akatsuki, and thus needs to learn to live without it.

[Archangel]

Well that seems unlikely since we've run out of granny's to offer as sacrifice but since naruto got his bijuu in a special way i guess that's possible

Beside, kyuubi or no kyuubi naruto still sucks these days, i just hope he doesn't make a fool of himself yet again in this arc.

[Idealistic]

Oh noe. You reminded me of Narutos Rasengan Filler Spamming.

Please, no rinse and reapeat, dear fillers!

Now that Naruto has learned a bigger Rasengan, this time he'll be asked to make a meal big enough for a big feast. Was it spaghetti or something that he made with his rasengan or something? Anyways, yep... I can see it already.

[KrayZ33]

Now that Naruto has learned a bigger Rasengan, this time he'll be asked to make a meal big enough for a big feast. Was it spaghetti or something that he made with his rasengan or something? Anyways, yep... I can see it already.

that filler was actually pretty funny!

btw:

I still don't get it.. in which way will this training help Naruto? Its simply nonesene... Rasengan was able to cut through most things anyways, the problem is that he missed all the time.. a direct hit from a rasengan would mean K.O. for most of his enemies.. but there is the problem, HE CAN NOT HIT THEM!... the new rasengan won't change that fact. Why doesn't kakashi train him to move faster like he did with Sasuke.

[Abdula]

Uh just when I thought there was a possibility of this filler turning out well. Its seems all they are going to do is effectively ruin this arc and the next one. Naruto has gotten to that point where if you don't read the manga then its almost impossible to tell what is filler and what isn't.

Nope, he used the kyuubi's chakra as well :P That's why yamato was there.

What is your hang up. Naruto is not using the Kyuubi's chakra that is precisely why Yamato is their. He is constantly suppressing it so that Naruto can't use it. Have your seen Naruto with red eyes or red chakra? I mean why do you think Yamato is so exhausted.

If they can just do this, as in stick in a couple filler episodes every now and then to add more depth into what the manga couldn't cover, it would be a lot better.

There is one problem in most cases Kishi purposely doesn't cover stuff because he intends to explain or elaborate on it later, which he usually does. So if the anime introduces some filler crap for the sake of consistentcy(not that they seem to care about that) they'll probably integrate the filler garbage into the show like Bleach did.

[Archangel]

I just go by kakashi's math, if he says naruto has 4 times his chakra and kakashi can get like 5 shadow clones at best then there's no way naruto is only using his chakra

My theory is that you don't see the red chakra or the red eyes precisely because yamato is there, blocking kyuubi's will.

I still don't get it.. in which way will this training help Naruto? Its simply nonesene... Rasengan was able to cut through most things anyways, the problem is that he missed all the time.. a direct hit from a rasengan would mean K.O. for most of his enemies.. but there is the problem, HE CAN NOT HIT THEM!... the new rasengan won't change that fact. Why doesn't kakashi train him to move faster like he did with Sasuke.

There's been much talk about a new rasengan but the truth is that it hasn't been confirmed 100%. Besides i'm thinking the wind chakra will have many other uses besides the new technique naruto is developing. Just think about it, if naruto can power up just the simple "leaf cutter jutsu" he would only have to touch his opponent to inflict some massive damage.

Example: Just think how easily he could have thorn sasuke's arm off right here

[Abdula]

Dude don't be so dense. Kakashi's exact words were and I quote " If we don't suppress the Kyuubi's chakra, then you'd have about 1000 times as much as me." Immediately after he said that Yamato said that the reason he is there is to suppress the Kyuubi's chakra and yet you still think Naruto is using it.

Secondly the new technique is going to be a rasengan. The reason I say that is this, Kakashi told Naruto that the create his ultimate technique he would need to use both shape and nature manipulation together. He then went on to explain the two blah, blah, blah. Important thing is that he made Naruto do the rasengan and said that the rasengan itself is shape manipulation to the highest level whats important to note is that rasengan is the only technique Naruto knows that uses shape manipulation and Kakashi did say that the new technique would require both shape and chakra manipulation.

If that isn't enough for you then there is the fact that Naruto said that all he needed to do was add nature manipulation to the rasengan then he would have a new technique in no time and Kakashi said yes, but that it wouldn't be that easy since naruto has no idea how to use nature manipulation.

-Btw there is no math there since you have no idea just how many shadow clones Kakashi can make. He said the reason he can't use this training method is because he doesn't have as much chakra as Naruto and more importantly he doesn't have as much stamina so he can't maintain shadow clones for very long. There was nothing to indicate what limit there is on the number of clones he can produce.

[KrayZ33]

Dude don't be so dense. Kakashi's exact words were and I quote " If we don't suppress the Kyuubi's chakra, then you'd have about 1000 times as much as me." Immediately after he said that Yamato said that the reason he is there is to suppress the Kyuubi's chakra and yet you still think Naruto is using it.
.

don't talk so highly and big when you are most likely wrong.

the exact words from yamato were "I m here to control the nine-tail's chakra"
this doesn't exclude the possibility that he's actually using it.

control and supress are two very different words... the former actually means that he IS using it (thats why you need control over it), the second one means that he's not using it.

and btw

Naruto:"kyuubi's chakra....?"
Yamato: "thats why you are the only one who can handle this kind of training."

i don't think naruto is the only one with more chakra than Kakashi.. especially when kakashi said "Kage-Bushin is not good for people with low chakra capacities like me"

well to sum this up... yamato allows naruto to draw chakra from the ninetails, but prevents him from using too much at once, so the kyuubi won't awaken.

[Uchiha Barles]

Uh just when I thought there was a possibility of this filler turning out well. Its seems all they are going to do is effectively ruin this arc and the next one. Naruto has gotten to that point where if you don't read the manga then its almost impossible to tell what is filler and what isn't.

Omg, hell yes! THANK YOU! I was looking for the perfect way to describe just how much this show has degenerated, and you come in and describe it spot on. Bravo!

I just go by kakashi's math, if he says naruto has 4 times his chakra and kakashi can get like 5 shadow clones at best then there's no way naruto is only using his chakra

My theory is that you don't see the red chakra or the red eyes precisely because yamato is there, blocking kyuubi's will.

For a good idea of just how many clones Naruto can make without using any of kyuubi's chakra, go back to the Gaara fight he had. He can make at least that many. And since his chakra capacity likely increased over the 2.5 years of "training", then he can probably make a hell of a lot more using his own chakra. I think what abdula said is right about why kakashi can't train using even 1/4 the amount of clones Naruto uses. However, I do also think that the kyuubi is being used, and Yamato's there to prevent Naruto from going bonkers. Otherwise it really is just a huge waste of an awesome chakra source.

[KrayZ33]

well, kakashi was able to create like 30 shadowclones (or more) when he was alrdy out of chakra.... remember the fight against zabuza? and the angry mob after that?

I don't think that the amount of clones has to do anything with it, but more what you do with your clones.
The advantage of this kind of training is, that every single clone uses a huge amount of chakra for training and not just him alone, remember when he tried to learn the rasengan, he was TOTALLY exhausted even though he trained by himself without using kage-bushin...now imagine him doing the same kind of training with 100 shadowclones.. there is now way he is NOT using the nine-tails

[Abdula]

Why is it that you guys just try to argue everything with me. Frankly I'm just trying to show my reasoning for my opinion and why I think Archangel is wrong since his theory isn't supported by much evidence. I'm not talking high or big and I don't care whose wrong or right, I would agree with his theories or anyone else's(like I have done in the past) if I find that there is enough evidence to support them. Similarly I would agree that my theories are wrong if there is sufficient evidence to support that(hopefully this is the last time I feel the need to have to defend myself in that regard). I really didn't wish to quote the anime since the translations tend to be rather liberal and usually portray an incorrect or atleast an inaccurate message. I believe I mentioned this before when I talked about the whole lightning element "lightning edge" thing in the other thread.

Anyway speaking of the liberal and/or mistranslations let me elaborate. In the manga Kakashi specifically said that if Yamato doesn't suppress the Kyuubi's chakra then Naruto would be able to use 100 times more chakra than he could. Him talking about the Kyuubi was him refering to the difference in chakra capacity between him and Naruto it didn't have anything to do with the training.

If anyone noticed I said 100 then I'd like to let you know that that isn't a typo that is actually what they said, in the manga anyway. What Kakashi said is that normally Naruto has twice as much chakra as he does and like I said above if Yamato doesn't suppress the Kyuubi he would be able to use 100 times more.

Since we were having this debate last time its interesting to note that, in the manga, Kakashi never said that other people wouldn't be able to use the same training method as Naruto. He said that low chakra capacity ninjas like him can't fully utilize the shadow clones like that and he said the he specifically can't use that method because he doesn't have as much stamina as Naruto so his clones don't last very long.

Its also important to note that as the word suggests, a ninjas capacity isn't referring to the amount of chakra the ninja currently has.

[Archangel]

For a good idea of just how many clones Naruto can make without using any of kyuubi's chakra, go back to the Gaara fight he had. He can make at least that many. And since his chakra capacity likely increased over the 2.5 years of "training", then he can probably make a hell of a lot more using his own chakra. I think what abdula said is right about why kakashi can't train using even 1/4 the amount of clones Naruto uses. However, I do also think that the kyuubi is being used, and Yamato's there to prevent Naruto from going bonkers. Otherwise it really is just a huge waste of an awesome chakra source.

Sorry dude, that doesn't count because it was a hero power up. You know this because he was able to summon the frog kind even without the nine tails chakra, something he shouldn't be able to do especially after doing that many shadow clones.

kray is exactly right, even if you think that naruto can do that many shadow clones all on his own you still have to see that all of them are doing a chakra based training and doing so for long periods of time. There's no way he isn't using the nine tails.

[Kusanagi]

Until either Naruto/Kakashi/Yamato come out and specifically say "we are using Kyuubi's chakra for this" I will lean toward the belief that they are not using it and are only using Naruto's chakra.

[KrayZ33]

Why is it that you guys just try to argue everything with me. Frankly I'm just trying to show my reasoning for my opinion

But it sucks that your reasoning comes from the manga (again you just showed us that you rely on the manga and not on the anime)...and why arn't we allowed to argue?

The same thing goes for me, I want to show my reasoning and my opinion. If you are allowed to argue, why arn't we? And why are you allowed to say "don't be so dense" etc. and we are not? (to be honest many of your "I know everything"-posts do have an agressive tone in it)

It looks like you feel attacked if someone has a different opinion than you.
The one who cannot accept other opinions is you and not us. You don't have to act as the victim here, really you don't. There is no need for anyone to feel this way

He said that low chakra capacity ninjas like him can't fully utilize the shadow clones like that and he said the he specifically can't use that method because he doesn't have as much stamina as Naruto so his clones don't last very long.

he says the same thing in the anime

Its also important to note that as the word suggests, a ninjas capacity isn't referring to the amount of chakra the ninja currently has.

who said something else?


Btw I think my position (which is the same as archangels) is supported by evidence. (just read the posts, they might be written poorly because of my english skills, but I think they are understandable, if not just tell me and I try to correct it)

and first of all show me evidence for this comment

Have your seen Naruto with red eyes or red chakra? I mean why do you think Yamato is so exhausted.

when he fought neji, his eyes didn't turn red and unless he draws too much chakra from the nine tails there won't be any chakra visible at all. When we see naruto cloaked in a red chakra, then it means that he draws out so much that it actually CAN becomes visible. But if he doesn't drain so much, then it won't become visible. It becomes visible as soon as it leaks out of the body (either by ninjutsu or because its simply to much for the body to handle).. so as long Naruto is able to use all the chakra he drains, then there won't be a visible aura around him and with 200 clones around him, he's surely able to use the chakra he is "allowed" to drain from the nine-tails... and the amount he is allowed to drain is "controlled" by Yamato..

that could also be the reason why Yamato has more and more problems to control it and needs to pause.. because he keeps draining from the nine-tails which wakens him up more and more.

[Abdula]

Actually my reasoning doesn't come from the manga, I spent the last two pages( the last three episode threads aswell) finding evidence to support my theories from the anime. Besides do you realise that the last time I read any of those chapters was well over a year ago so by the time the anime gets around to these things I don't remember any of it. I only reread that one chapter after I read Uchiha Barles' last post and I noticed the differences between what was in the anime and what was in the manga and I subsequently posted them. My posts may seem to have an aggressive tone to it but its just they way they are you shouldn't read anything into it as i have mentioned before.

I'll just ignore what you say about me feeling like I'm being attacked or me not being able to accept other peoples opinions since that is just silly. I'm not a victim and I'm certainly not trying to act like one. Anyway the don't be so dense part was aimed at that one post by Archangel trying to justify that Naruto must be using the Kyuubi's chakra just because of the number of clones he is using and that we aren't seeing either red eyes or red chakra because Yamato is supressing the Kyuubi's chakra when the very thing that signifies that Naruto is using the Kyuubi's chakra is infact the red chakra and the red eyes. I Just find its like saying Goku is using super saiyan powers but he doesn't have either the yellow hair, yellow aura or greenish blue eyes that signifies that he is using it. Thats why I said not to be so dense since there has been a clear precedent established that shows when Naruto is using the Kyuubi's chakra and when he isn't. Like I said I would support anyones theories if there is enough evidence supporting it even if it turns out to be wrong.

I find your perception of me to be quite annoying.

See Archangel, thats why I said I won't post here anymore. I have no idea why I listen to you.

Btw I respectfully disagree with the other stuff you said but I have no interest in arguing semantics at this point.

[Naruto_RNG]

wow nobody is talking about kakashi and j-man joining up. Now how sick of team would that be?

as for the eps, It was nice. atleast they didn't show naruto as a total idiot.